UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Can Jung's psychology replace the spiritual path? 

Can psychology replace the spiritual path?
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 Can Jung's psychology replace the spiritual path? 
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Post Can Jung's psychology replace the spiritual path?
Can psychology replace the spiritual path? Is Jung's 'active imagination' a significant method of integration of unconscious content, as asserted by Jung? Comparatively, therapy has demonstrated its healing capacity in many cases, but is there any study which proves the usefulness of active imagination as psychological method rather than as spiritual exercise?

In Two Essays, and elsewhere, Jung describes the 'anima' as the transcendent function (i.e., bridge to the unconscious), and the 'mana personality' that stands behind her. The question is, have people integrated the anima and encountered the mana personality, or is this Jung's personal universe? He relates no patient case histories, something which he should be able to do, according to scientific standards.

Is this what practitioners of active imagination report? If not, then active imagination, properly conducted, is better described as a spiritual exercise aiming at relieving oneself of worldly concerns and keeping whole. Among the Christian mystics this method was known as 'discursive meditation'. It was an exercise of the soul, meant to maintain focus on the spiritual path. Jung, on the other hand, says that active imagination concerns the integration of the anima as the 'transcendent function'. At this point, according to Jung, emerges the Wise Old Man, and images of the Self. Archaic images are activated, which Jung portrays in the Red Book, namely Philemon, et al.

Therefore it ought to be established that people who practice active imagination actually do observe this encounter with the Self and also experience the concomitant changes in personality that must take effect when the ego is overwhelmed by an entity vastly larger than itself, something which is experienced as traumatic, and as a psychological death. This is how Jung interprets 'nigredo' in alchemy.

If this is not what practitioners of active imagination report, then we are forced to conclude that active imagination is either (1) a form of hoax, a throwback to 19th century spiritism, or (2) the practitioners are fooling themselves to think that they are doing active imagination while they are really only playing with fantasies or are reformulating conscious ideas (e.g., in the fabrication of short stories), or (3) that active imagination, properly conducted, is an exercise of the soul, meant to maintain focus on the spiritual path, to motivate the adept to keep to the narrow path in order not to regress to material obsessions. Following the terminology of Christian mystics, the soul is thus kept sufficiently whole, preparing it for the contemplative stage.

An example of number (2) is when M-L von Franz criticized Wolfgang Pauli's text involving a piano teacher. She said that this is not true active imagination because the unconscious isn't involved in the formulation of the images, but, rather, are metaphors of consciousness.

Personally, I have been doing active imagination in writing for many years, and my unconscious has again and again urged me to continue with it despite the fact that I experience no dramatic "change of personality", according to Jung's model. But it's like the unconscious is fond of those unconscious products, which are expressed in dreams as colourful fishes in an aquarium, or flowers, paintings, etc. It seems like other practitioners, as well, fall short of expectations. There are no dramatic incursions of the Self, in the way Jung portrays.

I doubt that active imagination has this powerful capacity of archetypal integration that Jung claims. This was also the position of his own anima, something which he relates in his autobiography. The anima told him that this was art which he was doing. He reacted strongly against this and argued that the anima had tried to mislead him, which is quite a controversial interpretation. But, in fact, she made an opposite evaluation, to balance out his conscious standpoint. He overvalued this activity immensely, or had adopted a lopsided view of it, and the compensating factor was activated. The unconscious compensates the conscious standpoint.

Mats Winther


Last edited by Matswin on Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:56 am
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Post Re: The Spiritual Path
Mats,

It might be helpful for you to share what you summarize Remo's writings have differentiated about this. Like this any misunderstanding can be clarified.

Perhaps my brief summary and experience of it will give a skeleton from which further discussion may ensue on this very important topic. Keep in mind that I am TS (thinking/sensation) in my psychology – so an artist like Jess, Jalah, Beth... may find it more natural to approach this Eros ego realm while painting. This latter aspect I notice comes in when I amplify the material with approximate images of what was seen using images from Google along with Microsoft Paint or Adobe Elements to add changes – they are not exactly the same as observed and further nuances appear spontaneously.

The premise:

Light (consciousness) displays a dual nature, i.e., wave (Eros) or particle (Logos) depending on how it is observed.

1) Wave-like ='s realm of potential being ='s realm of the Eros Self ='s the unus mundus. To observe this wave-like behavior the ego "acts" in a similar wave-like manner so that wave meets wave. All is in a state of potential being. There is no agenda, no goal; other than to observe the blackness. Remo calls this ego state "Eros ego consciousness" in which the ego dims the intellect, eyes are closed (introversion) ='s passive imagination where one simply observes the blackness and notes/records any images, sensations, voices that may spontaneously appear. This state is most noticeable when just about to fall asleep or when just waking up but can be experienced semi-consciously when awake. One "sits" on the knife edge between sleep and barely awake. Many times I fall asleep when "meditating" like this. But then a dream comes or if not then as one begins to awaken one realizes - let's just "hang" out in this psychic space and observe the blackness. Later, as one transcribes the material, includes pictures, some brief amplification and any spontaneous association(s) - this record builds up a deposit that can/will eventually be explained by the Eros Self. One also is sensitive to the unbidden that may cross the waking path - something that suggests a meaningful coincidence to something observed. A sound, a smell, a news item, a street sign, a picture, etc.

2) Particle-like ='s realm of actual being ='s realm of the Logos Self ='s Jung's collective unconscious. To observe this particle-like behavior the ego "acts" in a similar particle-like manner so that the Logos Self meets a Logos ego. The ego interacts with that which is seen; asks questions, seeks information about this or that. This is Jung's active imagination - something I was never able to do although I tried it at length many times. Some kind of "block" to trusting the results always ensued. But as one can see from The Red Book Jung, MLvF, etc. found this process very helpful to their opus.

The Result:

The question arises: "Did their opus go deep enough? Remo clearly says it did not because they were unable to solve the psychophysical problem because the deeper piece, the next step, was to encounter the Eros Self, the anima mundi, the World Soul on Her terms, i.e. by entering Eros ego consciousness. Like this a further Night Sea Journey ensues. Like this the SunGod journeys through the Netherworld and “twelve” hours later is reborn anew as a SunGod if you follow my colored process. In other words the sun and Osiris “moon” aspects are deeply experienced/observed. Is this outcome significantly different from Jung’s or MLvF’s? Only time will tell for it is as Christ has said, “By their fruits you shall know them.” If Remo’s approach to the psyche is deeper then the effects from the “stone” should become evident in our world – some of which he writes about regarding unusual healings and other phenomena like the reduction of radiation at Chernobyl.

Gregory

P.S. For me the question is;

Can depth psychology help one meet the God (Nature) on its terms?

From my latter days experiences I would answer yes. In terms of the results from the opus it is still a work in progress and so changes in our world remains unmanifest.


Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:21 pm
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Gregory, I should have phrased the question "Can Jung's psychology (in terms of active imagination, etc.) replace the spiritual path?" If you, and Remo, argue that his method doesn't go "deep enough" then you concur with me, that it does not suffice to replace the spiritual path, as it seems, judging from people's experiences of it. There are no overwhelming personality-changing experiences that ensue from the practice of active imagination. I do not reject the method, I just say that Jung's description of archetypal encounters seems to draw on his very personal experience, and not how people experience it generally.
/Mats


Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:45 pm
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Post Change You Can Count On
Mats,

Here is “change you can count on”…

Quote:
Nigredo, albedo, rubedo, citrinitas—describe the stages of alchemical change not only on the individual level. Jung recognized that “the collective psyche shows the same pattern of change as the psyche of the individual.”


Part I: Jung’s Prophetic Vision of Catastrophe in 2011
Part II: Alchemy and Its Phases—A Road Map for Individuals and Cultures
Part III: Our Current Situation in an Alchemical Context

Gregory


Last edited by Gregory Sova on Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:06 am
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But the way in which external reality coincides with internal reality is not Jungian psychology, it is an old spiritual truth. "Confucius said that if the noble man sits in his room and has the right thoughts and writes down the right things, he is heard a thousand miles around. The Taoist philosopher Chuang-tzu always comments on the point that as long as the ruler of the country tries to do the right thing, actively making good or bad laws, the empire will get worse and worse. If, on the contrary, he retires and gets right inwardly, then the problems of the empire are solved by themselves too." (v. Franz, The Feminine..., p.179)

What is characteristic of the spiritual experience is the "Cloud of Unknowing", and not an invasion of archetypes. In the Cloud of Unknowing, an unknown 14th century author explains that the spiritual path is to remain in a state of unknowing. Christian mysticism is certainly dependent on its historical context, and I don't practice it as such. I am merely learning from it, and from Taoism.

Characteristically, I have no interest in the Red Book, either. Have you read it? Isn't this form of overstrung spirituality an offshoot of the romantic epoch in the 19th century? The form of active imagination that I practice lacks this invasive quality. Nevertheless, my unconscious says I should increase this activity. The dreams express a fondness of these creations.

To my mind the invasive and delirious ideal should be toned down. No psychological meltdown and acute crisis is called for. It can be detrimental, the way in which people tend to view the charismatic leader as a role model, and his personal individuation as exemplary, unto the border of madness. The process of symbol formation, however, is worthwhile.

Concerning the earthy temperament, and the way in which individuation depends on "the stomach", on lines of Remo. Aren't Taoist and Christian mystics in fact quite earthy? Don't they compensate the trinitarian standpoint in a way?

/Mats


Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:08 am
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Of course, I immediately dreamt about an "invasion", but of modest kind. I was baking buns in my apartment, and it smelled so good that people invaded my apartment because they thought it was a café. When I had informed them that this is my private apartment, they left without grouse. The reason for this baking symbol was that I had yesterday resumed the active imagination practice. This, to the unconscious, is like baking buns, and an alluring smell is spread in the unconscious which attracts the archetypes. They, of course, are unconscious and don't know that they are invading my private ego region.

This comments on the above discussion of invasive content, but the dream portrays it as an undramatic event.
/Mats


Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:18 am
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Post Finding your own "secret manna"
Interesting dream of buns coming from oven in "new creation." Outsiders sent away; not their "creation." Oven represents earth/womb and buns the inner life awakening and coming from it. When my kids were small we lived in North Carolina and sent our children to a Moravian play school. Very gentle, old world, wise. Moravians I believe were the first protestant sect long preceding Martin Luther in Germany. They were passifists and like many went to the American wilderness. They were not farmers; they started a commerce culture in the wilderness. They settled in Winston-Salem, NC, and their distinctive feature is a Christmas "love fest" in which they baked buns and shared them in a common communion with coffee. We still use Moravian candles; it is the closest religion we found to Buddhism. I would still go to a Moravian church (once a year) if they had one up here.

Image


Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:09 pm
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Post The Guiding Light
Quote:
Mats wrote: I should have phrased the question "Can Jung's psychology (in terms of active imagination, etc.) replace the spiritual path?"


Quote:
Mats wrote: But the way in which external reality coincides with internal reality is not Jungian psychology, it is an old spiritual truth.


Some kind of inconsistency has crept into our discussion it seems to me. Clearly a lot of Jung’s psychology is a collection of this and that he gleaned from the historical record. His genius is that he knitted it all into a psychological theory that has helped mankind creep closer to a fundamental understanding of how to approach the God. Like this it is under the umbrella of Jung’s psychology and so it is “change coming you can count on”.

So, the question remains – “Did Jung’s psychology go deep enough?” As a scientist I trust the fundamental behavior of nature to give a clue to the answer on that question.

Quote:
the Wave-Particle duality of photons


Sure enough your active imagination continues to bear fruit via your oven dream. Nevertheless the answer to the question for you remains. What happens if you stop doing active imagination? Surely a new hell will break loose in your psyche as old patterns/beliefs war against entering such a “Cloud of Unknowing”. Like this I agree with Remo that the challenge of the 21st Century is to lay down the Logos conquering sword and die, die another ego death. Sacrifice the intellect when looking within and see what happens. It may take a while as many demons (objections) will arise. Well, my experience.

Jung, MLvF, etc. all sucked on that Logos tit their entire lives. MLvF said she could go no further than Jung. So, is that it? Does the next generation grind to a halt and simply remain standing on this step forged by Jung? Or does the nature of how light behaves suggest a deeper layer lurks that has not been given much of a reception. Like this should we not try holding the candle that emits black light and let that guide our way into the depths. Is black light not also “grace”?

Image Image
Logos & Eros Grace ='s Her HOLY SPIRIT

If the opus needs to go deeper before “real change you can count on” manifests – then we humans had better get cracking… and connect the dots… for we as a species that may be able adapt further are being measured.

It’s the Holy Wedding with the Black Madonna that Remo writes about. And that means a Black Head Of Osiris approach. It's the other side of the same coin, i.e., it's the Virgin Mary + Virgin Mary effect and that leads to a tremendous Enlightenment.

Virgin (0,128,255) + Virgin (255,127,0) = Enlightenment (255,255,255)

Mary (255,255,255) + Mary (0,0,0) = Enlightenment (255,255,255)

Orange is the 2nd chakra while blue is the 5th chakra.


Gregory


Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:39 pm
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It was actually cinnamon rolls. They have the spiral shape, symbolic of the womb and the feminine serpent force. Cinnamon is the bark of an oriental tree. One could go on and on with the contextual work.
/Mats


Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:41 pm
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I became aware of a fecal interpretation of this symbol (how a Freudian would interpret a cinnamon roll). This is how I and most people think of the products of the meditations of discursive imagination. The unconscious loves it, but consciousness thinks that it's useless fecal matter. It lacks aesthetic value, generates no money, and it's a waste of time - so it's excrement!

This is what the alchemists say also. In their books the 'prima materia' is sometimes referred to as fecal matter, or the blood of the dragon, or the menstruum of a whore. It is sometimes referred to as the insignificant and worthless matter that is present everywhere. On ecan find it at one's doorstep.

But it is really the most valuable thing, which can be transformed to the alchemical gold. However, we find it difficult to take this lowly matter seriously, because we underestimate it greatly, so most people continue to ignore it.

It seems the archetypes gather around because they can feel the smell of the baking. According to the ancient Veda scriptures the gods are sensitive to the scent of the burnt offering, and they gather around the sacrifice as flies. This is what underlies the burning of incense.

Mats


Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:02 am
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Post Re: The Guiding Light
Gregory & All

Gregory Sova wrote:
Jung, MLvF, etc. all sucked on that Logos tit their entire lives. MLvF said she could go no further than Jung. So, is that it? Does the next generation grind to a halt and simply remain standing on this step forged by Jung? Or does the nature of how light behaves suggest a deeper layer lurks that has not been given much of a reception. Like this should we not try holding the candle that emits black light and let that guide our way into the depths. Is black light not also “grace”?


It was this insight that I had to "digest" some years ago, and your visions helped me very much. When I studied Jung's youth and first professional years, I realized that he was not able (was it not his fate? I think so.) to really let go from the Logos. As much as I remember, you once quoted the dream, in which Jung is with his father. Kneeling, both bend the head to the floor. In contrast to his father Jung is not able to touch the floor. This is what happened with him. He was not yet able to really let go from the Logos.

But in the 21st century we have to go on. We must include the "black head" of Osiris, the truth of the black region, of the unus mundus. As much as I remember the UM forum began with a dream or a vision of Clarice. The dream was about the "black light" or something alike. In the cgjungforum they told her that this is her shadow and interpreted it in a completely negative way. This was the first time that I realized that I am on the other side; that I have to enter the blackness -- the black lady. It seems that this is a progress compared with Jung's too Neoplatonic depth psychology. It is Hermeticism, and Hermeticism is magic.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:54 pm
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Post OSIRIS
I formulated all this in section 5.5.6 of Holy Wedding (not yet published)

Quote:
5.5.6 Osiris as the symbol of the Eros ego/Eros Self bipolarity and of Body Centered Imagination

The motif of the dissolution leads us back to Chapter 4. In section 4.3.2 and 4.4.1 I dealt with the motif of the Monocolus/Osiris in Carl Jung’s late work Mysterium Coniunctionis. It is the part of the book, in which he reduces Gerardus Dorneus’ unio corporalis to the unio mentalis. The Monocolus is a symbol equivalent to the sun descending into the earth and then is called Osiris. There the golden sun becomes completely black, the so-called sol niger, the “black Osiris or Ethiopian,” or “Moor.” It is especially the head of Osiris which turns black, and is “boiled in a pot.” Osiris has to be decapitated and becomes like this an ithyphallic god, which Christianity interpreted as the devil.

In this state of blackness “the sun is surrounded with the anima media natura,” the world soul. In Jung’s interpretation this phase represents “a state of incubation and pregnancy.” Then, however, the strange interpretation follows, in which he says that the beheading is “an emancipation of the cognition,” obviously of the thinking function. This means that the decapitation becomes a symbol of “the separation of the ‘understanding’ from the ‘great suffering and grief.” This “sublimation” is then interpreted as “the unio mentalis, and the “overcoming of the body.” I concluded that like this conscious suffering is substituted by thinking.

We realize now that the root for the above interpretation of the Monocolus, of Osiris and the sol niger lies exactly in Jung’s mentality to repress the conscious suffering at the separation from Sabina and instead to write the book about the sun-hero. Thinking replaces the “great suffering and grief,” and it is obvious that exactly this mentality led to the identification of the psychiatrist with the Neoplatonic world view. Together with his unipolar definition of the libido term as mere spirit-psyche this is also the reason why the psychiatrist reduces the matter-psyche, the anima mundi, to the feminine spirit-psyche, the anima . As he writes in Analytical Psychology, it was exactly during this time that he developed his concepts of the anima and of Active Imagination. His Neoplatonic reduction prevented him from discovering the corporeal aspect of the unio corporalis. Further, since quantum physics was not yet invented, he neither had a possibility to realize the archetype of the singular acausal quantum leap observable in one’s own body. As an effect of this inability neither the idea of a transformation process between spirit-psyche and matter psyche, what I call the twin process, was in his reach. Without these tools it was however unable to develop a body-centered imagination method based on the psychophysical quantum leap.

Nevertheless, as I showed, in Transformations the Hermetic myth prevails always unconsciously over the psychiatrist’s Neoplatonic myth. This is impressively shown by the fact that he begins now to amplify with the myth of Osiris . The Egyptian god of the underworld represents however not the sun-hero, but the black sun, its compensatory principle, which actually is symbolically equivalent to the dying old king in the Hermetic myth. The latter dissolves in the uterus of the queen, and Osiris is dismembered and “delivered back to the mother for rebirth.” Nothing is known about Osiris fighting against his lover/sister Isis. Thus, he is not at all a bright sun-hero; he is the hero of the black sun. In a passive process he dissolves (or is dismembered), as does the caterpillar in the Chrysalis to transmute to the butterfly. Since Osiris’ and the Monocolus’ head is black, this means that this state is not only very passive but that also the thinking function is switched off and repressed. This is not at all the state of Active Imagination equivalent to the Neoplatonic myth of the battle of the deliverance from the mother. On the contrary, Osiris is a symbol of the “active passiveness,” of the Wu Wei, the necessary state of the ego for Body-Centered Imagination. The Egyptian god of the underworld becomes like this a representation of the Eros ego. As a god Osiris is however also a symbol of the Eros Self, the world soul, and like this a symbol of the archetype behind the dimmed consciousness observing – and not looking for a confrontation – the acausal incarnation events happening in the unus mundus.

The passiveness of this process is also shown in the motif of Osiris’ re-memberment by his sister/wife Isis. She collects the scattered parts of her brother/lover – in myths such a contradiction to the burying in the grave is possible – does however not find his phallus anymore. And now the great revolution comes: She replaces the absent phallus by a wooden one. As I stressed in Chapter 4 this means that the myth becomes completely vegetative. Body-Centered Imagination, the modern unio corporalis is constellated, and not Active Imagination.

Later in Transformations Carl Jung comes back to a different form of the myth of Osiris:
“Osiris lies in the branches of the [mother’s] tree, surrounded by them, as in the mother’s womb,” the “motif of embracing and entwining,” a parallel to the fairy tale of the Sleeping Beauty, as he also mentions. And then the psychiatrist’s “free amplification” eventually leads him to “the symbol of the tree encoiled by the serpent.”

If we interpret the tree, again a vegetative symbol, as the motionless body – in contrast to animals trees are rooted and cannot move – we are back to Carl Jung’s third vision of his “night sea journey” of 1913 , in which he is encoiled by the snake of Salome and becomes the Leontocephalus, the lion-headed god and a symbol of the deified body, of the subtle body or eternal body. Actually, in chapter VI of Transformations the psychiatrist amplifies this deeply Hermetic symbol and shows that it represents AION, the god of eternal time. Since the subtle body corresponds to the body in the Beyond, it belongs intimately to the timelessness of this aspect of the unus mundus. Further, the snake reminds us of Carl Jung’s childhood dream of the phallus in the grave, which “might at any moment crawl off the throne like a worm and creep towards me,” the phallus of the anima mundi, of the dea abscondita .


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:06 pm
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Post Re: The Guiding Light
Remo Roth wrote:
Gregory & All
It was this insight that I had to "digest" some years ago, and your visions helped me very much. When I studied Jung's youth and first professional years, I realized that he was not able (was it not his fate? I think so.) to really let go from the Logos. As much as I remember, you once quoted the dream, in which Jung is with his father. Kneeling, both bend the head to the floor. In contrast to his father Jung is not able to touch the floor. This is what happened with him. He was not yet able to really let go from the Logos.

But in the 21st century we have to go on. We must include the "black head" of Osiris, the truth of the black region, of the unus mundus. As much as I remember the UM forum began with a dream or a vision of Clarice. The dream was about the "black light" or something alike. In the cgjungforum they told her that this is her shadow and interpreted it in a completely negative way. This was the first time that I realized that I am on the other side; that I have to enter the blackness -- the black lady. It seems that this is a progress compared with Jung's too Neoplatonic depth psychology. It is Hermeticism, and Hermeticism is magic.

Remo


I have sometimes thought about this, that Jung's massive intellectual undertaking must have meant a great sacrifice in that he did not allow himself time to delve in the darkness with his introvertive feeling side. The indwelling of the "black light" is, I take it, a slow process, and there is really no place and no time for it in his psychology. That's probably why he describes the process as a dramatic incursion of archetypes when the ego is almost annihilated. I suppose it's correct to describe his standpoint as Neoplatonic in a way. I read Marilyn Nagy "Philosophical Issues in the Psychology of C.G. Jung" and she say's she was very downcast when she realized how dependent Jung was on the Platonic conception.

Mats


Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:44 pm
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Post Re: The Guiding Light
Matswin wrote:
I have sometimes thought about this, that Jung's massive intellectual undertaking must have meant a great sacrifice in that he did not allow himself time to delve in the darkness with his introvertive feeling side. The indwelling of the "black light" is, I take it, a slow process, and there is really no place and no time for it in his psychology. That's probably why he describes the process as a dramatic incursion of archetypes when the ego is almost annihilated. I suppose it's correct to describe his standpoint as Neoplatonic in a way. I read Marilyn Nagy "Philosophical Issues in the Psychology of C.G. Jung" and she say's she was very downcast when she realized how dependent Jung was on the Platonic conception.


Thanks, Mats. I am happy that there is someone else who believes that Jung is too Neoplatonic. I hope that I can read Nagy's work once.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:31 am
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Post Re: The Spiritual Path
Gregory Sova wrote:
It might be helpful for you to share what you summarize Remo's writings have differentiated about this. Like this any misunderstanding can be clarified.


Gregory,

Thank you for this summary. I would like to add the following:

Jung defined Active Imagination as a verbal confrontation with the figures of the unconscious. One can see this in many places of his work. As a therapist, however, he also accepted other forms, for example painting. But IMO this is not A.I. anymore. This technique is much more related to the body. This is why I call it Body-Centered Imagination.

Further, I discovered that such a method leads to "images out of the belly" and even to vegetative sensations.

For example I touched a woman (I dreamed of) with my "ghosthands". I am shocked since her body is all subtle. I can reach through it. Then, however I touch the backbone. It is material, I sense this with my "ghosthands". I begin to examine the spine. Almost at its end I sense (and see) two octahedrons, one at the left, one at the right. It seems that these two octahedrons are the "children" of this woman.

Such experiences showed me that some other "realm" than the (Logos) Self is entered with BCI. And the results are shown as the healing of physical disease. This is why I became a healer and am not a psychoanalyst anymore, today.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:05 pm
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Post The BLACK Gold
Quote:
Remo wrote in OSIRIS

The Egyptian god of the underworld represents however not the sun-hero, but the black sun, its compensatory principle, which actually is symbolically equivalent to the dying old king in the Hermetic myth.


I found this image a helpful amplification to this aspect of Remo’s writings. Like this it visualizes the lower sun informing the old king who has tuned into Eros ego consciousness, via the black head of OSIRIS state.

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Lower Sun aka Black Gold

This Eros Self “communication” has the effect of adding its “voice” to the 5th chakra of the old king as seen by simply inverting the above image. "My" colored process is a bit mysterious – not sure why this “works”. I can only imagine it is because of the quote which follows and thus some intricacy woven into Nature that is being unveiled by the Eros Self. Creative aspects like this can be expected to “appear” as the Eros Self shares more of Her secrets with other souls who are willing to bend the knee and learn from Her Wisdom. What a rich future humans will inherit from this creatio continua unfolding of this additional layer of wholeness contained in the Eros Self. Thoughts like this flash through “my” mind.


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Quote:
The soul or bride in our text is thus a fiery, tincturing spirit who gives the bridegroom rising from the grave (i.e., the spiritualized body) a "garment" (colour)." This motif recalls the ancient idea of the soul as a coloured garment enveloping the material world. According to the Gnostic Basilides the World Soul is nothing but an "emphasis" or "colour" of light which has descended into matter. Aurora Consurgens, MLvF, p. 372-73.


Gregory


Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:23 pm
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Post Regarding the Chakras
I would imagine that many who are reading this forum are not familiar with the chakras of the subtle body, their role. Jung has provided a wonderful modern understanding of this symbolic system connected to what Christianity calls the soul or what the East calls the subtle or diamond body.

I provide the following, excellent, long quote on the chakras from Jung’s 1932 seminar on the subject since our discussion has now led us more substantially to this threshold of the 5th chakra, the viśhuddha. I have underlined some text for emphasis – there was no use of underlining in the original text. Further, I have colored the words used for the chakras using the following chart as it seems to match the colors seen when tuned into the Eros ego consciousness wavelength. Also note the connection between Prakrti (nature) and purusa (Sanskrit for Hinduism’s Purusha =’s Cosmic Man).

Quote:
Purusa is the Supreme personality of Godhead or anyone who imitates the Supreme Personality of Godhead as an enjoyer (man or woman), and Prakrti means "nature."


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Quote:
LECTURE 3
26 October 1932
Dr. Jung: I will continue our discussion of the cakras. You remember, we were speaking chiefly of the transformation from manipūra to anāhata. In anāhata something is attained which was begun in mūlādhāra, through a series of four stages. How might these four stages also be designated?

Dr. Reichstein: They are the four elements.

Dr. Jung: Exactly. Each of the four lower centers has an element belonging to it mūlādhāra, the earth, svādhisthāna, the water, then comes fire in manipūra, and finally air in anāhata. So one can see the whole thing as a sort of transformation of elements, with the increase of volatility of volatile substance. And the next form we reach is viśuddha [Hauer described the viśuddha cakra as “the cleansed one, or cleansing” (HS, 69)] which is the ether center. Now, what is ether? Do you know anything about it from the physical point of view?

Remark: It penetrates everything.

Mrs. Sawyer: You cannot catch it.

Dr. Jung: Why not? Since it penetrates everywhere, why can it not be found everywhere?

Mr. Dell: It cannot be measured; it is a thought.

Dr. Jung: Yes, one finds it only within one's brain, nowhere else; it is a concept of substance that has none of the qualities that matter should have. It is matter that is not matter, and such a thing must necessarily be a concept. Now, in the viśuddha center beyond the four elements one reaches what stage?

Mrs. Crowley: A more conscious state, abstract thought perhaps?

Dr. Jung: Yes, one reaches a sphere of abstraction. There one steps beyond the empirical world, as it were, and lands in a world of concepts. And what are concepts? What do we call the substance of concepts?

Mrs. Crowley: Psychology?

Dr. Jung: Or say psychical psychology; that would express the science of psychical things. The reality we reach there is a psychical reality; it is a world of psychical substance, if we can apply such a term. I think we get nearest to it when we say it is a world of psychical reality. So another point of view to explain the series of the cakras would be a climbing up from gross matter to the subtle, psychical matter. Now, the idea of this transformation from earth to ether is one of the oldest constituents of Hindu philosophy. The concept of the five elements is a part of the Samkhya philosophy, which is pre Buddhistic, belonging to the seventh century B.C. at the latest. All subsequent Hindu philosophies, like the Upanishads, took their origin in the Samkhya philosophy. So this concept of the five elements dates back endlessly there is no way of telling its age. One sees from the age of that component that the fundamental ideas of tantric yoga reach back into a dim past. Also the idea of the transformation of the elements shows the analogy of tantric yoga with our medieval alchemistic philosophy. There one finds exactly the same ideas, the transformation of the gross matter into the subtle matter of the mind the sublimation of man, as it was then understood.

Speaking of this alchemistic aspect of the cakras, I want to call your attention to the symbol of manipūra, the fire center. You remember, perhaps, that in the fire center there are those peculiar handles, one could call them, which Professor Hauer hypothetically explained as parts of the swastika (lbid., 75). Now, I must confess that I never have seen a swastika symbol that had only three feet. There is the Greek form of the triskelos, but I don't know whether that existed in India. It was found on Greek coins in Sicily, from a period between four hundred and about two hundred B.C. when Sicily belonged to Graecia Magna and was a large and flourishing Greek colony. The triskelos is like this: the three legged being. But the swastika is like this: running on four feet. So I suggest that these might be handles attached to the triangle of manipūra. I rather think that they are handles of a pot to lift the pot and there is a lid on top, which has also a handle. I think that is probably to be explained from the alchemistic aspect, because manipūra is the fire region, and that is the kitchen, or the stomach, where the food is cooked. One stuffs the food into the pot, or into the belly, and there it is heated by the blood. In that way food is prepared so that one can digest it.

Cooking is an anticipation of digestion, a sort of predigestion. For example, in Africa the papaya tree has the very peculiar quality that its fruit and leaves are full of pepsin, the same stuff which is found in the juice of the stomach, the digestive stuff par excellence. The Negroes wrap up their meat for two or three hours in papaya leaves instead of cooking it it thus becomes partially digested; it is predigested. And so the whole art of cooking is predigestion. We have transferred part of our digestive ability into the kitchen, so the kitchen is the stomach of every house, and the labor of preparing the food is then taken away from our stomachs. Our mouth is also a predigestive organ, because the saliva contains a digestive substance. The mechanical action of the teeth is predigestive, because we cut up the food, which is what we also do in the kitchen in cutting up the vegetables, and so on. So you could really say that the kitchen is a digestive tract projected from the human body. And it is the alchemistic place where things are transformed.

Therefore manipūra would be a center in which substances are digested, transformed. The next thing one would expect would be the transformation shown as completed. As a matter of fact, this center is right below the diaphragm, which marks the dividing line between anāhata and the centers of the abdomen.

For after manipūra follows anāhata, [Hauer stated of the anāhata cakra: "This heart lotus is the cakra of the fundamental insights into life; it is what we call the creative life in the highest sense" (HS, 90-91).] in which entirely new things occur; a new element is there, air, no longer gross matter. Even fire is understood to be in a way gross matter. It is thicker, denser than air, and it is quite visible, whereas air is invisible. Fire is exceedingly movable, yet perfectly well defined, and also in a way tangible, whereas air is exceedingly light and almost intangible unless you feel it as a wind. It is relatively gentle in comparison with fire, which moves and burns.

So at the diaphragm you cross the threshold from the visible tangible things to the almost invisible intangible things. And these invisible things in anāhata are the psychical things, for this is the region of what is called feeling and mind. The heart is characteristic of feeling, and air is characteristic of thought. It is the breath being; therefore one has always identified the soul and thought with breath.

For instance, it is the custom in India, when the father dies, that the oldest son must watch during the last moments in order to inhale the last breath of his father, which is the soul, in order to continue his life. The Swahili word roho means the stertorous breathing of a dying man, which we call in German rocheln; and roho also means the soul. It is no doubt taken from the Arabic word ruch, which means wind, breath, spirit, with probably the same original idea of stertorous breathing. So the original idea of spirit or of psychical things is the idea of breath or air. And I told you that the mind in Latin is animus, which is identical with the Greek word anemos meaning wind.

The heart is always characteristic of feeling because feeling conditions influence the heart. Everywhere in the world feelings are associated with the heart. If you have no feelings, you have no heart; if you have no courage, you have no heart, because courage is a definite feeling condition. And you say, "Take it to heart." Or you learn something "by heart." You learn it, of course, by the head but you won't keep it in mind unless you take it to heart. Only if you learn a thing by heart do you really get it. In other words, if it is not associated with your feelings, if it has not sunk into your body until it reaches the anāhata center, it is so volatile that it flies away. It must be associated with the lower center in order to be kept. Therefore that method of teaching pupils that I described to you last week, where the teacher used the whip, in order that their feelings of anger and suffering would make the pupils remember the letters. If they were not associated with pain, they would not keep them. That is particularly true for the primitive man: he learns nothing if not in such a way.

The real importance of thoughts and values becomes clear to us only when we consider them as compelling forces in our lives. The beginning of such a recognition of such values and thoughts in primitives would be embodied in the secret teaching of the tribe, which is given at the time of the puberty initiations together with pain and torture to make them remember it. At the same time they are taught certain moral values, which prevent the mere blind action of the manipūra fires of passion.

So anāhata is really the center where psychical things begin, the recognition of values and ideas. When man has reached that level in civilization or in his individual development one could say he was in anāhata, and there he gets the first inkling of the power and substantiality, or the real existence, of psychical things.

For instance, take a patient in analysis who has reached the stage of manipūra, where he is an absolute prey to his emotions and passions. I say: "But you really ought to be a bit reasonable; don't you see what you do? You cause no end of trouble to your relations." And it makes no impression whatever. But then these arguments begin to have a pull; one knows that the threshold of the diaphragm is crossed he has reached anāhata. You see, values, convictions, general ideas are psychical facts that are nowhere to be met with in natural science. One cannot catch them with a butterfly net, nor can one find them under microscopes. They become visible only in anāhata. Now according to tantric yoga, the purusa [Woodroffe defined purusa as a “center of limited consciousness – limited by the associated Prakrti and its products of Mind and Matter. Popularly by Purusa… is meant sentient being with body and senses – that is, organic life.” The Serpent Power (London, 1919, 49. Surendranath Dasgupta defined purusa as spirit and as “consciousness itself”.] is first seen in anāhata: the essence of man, the supreme man, the so called primordial man then becomes visible. So purusa is identical with the psychical substance of thought and value, feeling. In the recognition of feelings and of ideas one sees the purusa. That is the first inkling of a being within your psychological or psychical existence that is not yourself - a being in which you are contained, which is greater and more important than you but which has an entirely psychical existence.

You see, we could finish here; we could say that about covers the growth of humanity. As we are all convinced that psychical things have a certain weight, mankind as a whole has about reached anāhata. For instance, the Great War has taught practically everybody that the things that have the greatest weight are the imponderabilia, the things you cannot possibly weigh, like public opinion or psychical infection. The whole war was a psychical phenomenon. If you are looking for the causal root of it, it could not possibly be explained as arising out of the reason of man or out of economic necessity. One could say that Germany needed a greater expansion and had to go to war, or that France felt threatened and had to crush Germany. But nobody was threatened - everybody had enough money, the German exports were increasing from year to year, Germany had all the expansion she needed. All the economic reasons you mention are no good at all; they don't explain that phenomenon. It was simply the time when that thing had to happen from unknown psychical reasons. Any great movement of man has always started from psychical reasons; so it is our experience that has taught us to believe in the psychical. Therefore we are rightly afraid of mob psychology, for instance. Every man of today will take that into account. And formerly man did not believe in the value of advertising; now look what is done with it! Or would anybody have believed that the little sheets which appeared every fortnight - gazettes, which we now call newspapers - would be a world power? The press is recognized as a world power today; it is a psychical fact.

So we can say that our civilization has reached the state of anāhata - we have overcome the diaphragm. We no longer locate the mind in the diaphragm, as the Old Greeks did in Homeric times. We are convinced that the seat of consciousness must be somewhere up in the head. We already have a more farsighted view in anāhata; we become aware of the purusa. But we do not yet trust the security of psychical existence, so we have not reached viśuddha. We still believe in a material world built of matter and psychical force. And we cannot connect the psychical existence or substance with the idea of anything cosmic or physical. We have not yet found the bridge between the ideas of physics and psychology. [Jung attempted such a bridge in his collaboration with the physicist Wolfgang Pauli in The Interpretation of Nature and the Psyche (Bollingen Series LI, 1955). On this issue, see especially Wolfgang Pauli und C. G. Jung: Ein Briefwechsel 1932-1958, edited by C. A. Meier (Berlin, 1992).]

Therefore collectively we have not crossed the distance between anāhata and viśuddha. So if one speaks of viśuddha, it is of course with a certain hesitation. We are stepping into the slippery future right away when we try to understand what that might mean. For in viśuddha we reach beyond our actual conception of the world, in a way we reach the ether region. We are trying something that would be more than Professor Piccard achieved! [Auguste Piccard was a Swiss professor of physics at the University of Brussels. Commencing on 27 May 1931, he ascended for the first time into the stratosphere by means of a special balloon to make scientific observations. His second flight was from the Dubendorf aerodrome near Zurich on 18 August 1932. See his Au dessus des nuages (Above the clouds) (Paris, 1933) and Between Earth and Sky, translated by C. Apcher (London, 1950).] He was only in the stratosphere - he reached something exceedingly thin, I admit, but it was not yet ether. So we have to construct a sort of skyrocket of very large dimensions which shoots us up into space. It is the world of abstract ideas and values, the world where the psyche is in itself, where the psychical reality is the only reality, or where matter is a thin skin around an enormous cosmos of psychical realities, really the illusory fringe around the real existence, which is psychical.

The concept of the atom, for instance, might be considered as corresponding to the abstract thinking of the viśuddha center. Moreover, if our experience should reach such a level, we would get an extraordinary vista of the purusa. For then the purusa becomes really the center of things; it is no longer a pale vision, it is the ultimate reality, as it were. You see, that world will be reached when we succeed in finding a symbolical bridge between the most abstract ideas of physics and the most abstract ideas of analytical psychology. If we can construct that bridge then we will have reached at least the outer gate of viśuddha. That is the condition. I mean, we will then have reached it collectively; the way will then be opened. But we are still a long distance from that goal. For viśuddha means just what I said: a full recognition of the psychical essences or substances as the fundamental essences of the world, and by virtue not of speculation but of fact, namely as experience. It does not help to speculate about ājñā and sahasrāra [Hauer stated that the sahasrāra cakra "is the thousand spoked or the thousand petalled cakra" (HS, 69). Eliade noted that "it is here that the final union (unmani of Śiva and Śakti, the final goal of tantric sādhana, is realized, and here the kundalini ends its journey after traversing the six cakras. We should note that the sahasrāra no longer belongs to the plane of the body, that it already designates the plane of transcendence - and this explains why writers usually speak of the ‘six' cakras." In Mircea Eliade, Yoga: Immortality and Freedom, translated by Willard R. Track (Bollingen Series LVI; reprint, London, 1989), 243.] and God knows what; you can reflect upon those things, but you are not there if you have not had the experience.

I will give you an example of the transition from one state to another.

I remember the case of a man who was an extrovert in the most exaggerated sense of the word. He was always convinced that the world was best wherever he was not; there was the real bliss, and he must make for it. Naturally he was after women all the time, because always the women whom he did not yet know contained the secret of life and bliss. He could never see a woman in the street talking to another man without being envious, because that might be the woman. Of course, he never succeeded, as you can imagine. He succeeded less and less, and he made a perfect fool of himself. He grew older, and the chances of meeting the ultimate woman became exceedingly small. So the time came for a new realization. He got into analysis, but nothing changed until the following thing happened: he was walking in the street and a young couple came along talking intimately, and instantly there was pain in his heart - that was the woman! Then suddenly the pain vanished, and for a moment he had an absolutely clear vision. He realized: "Well, they will do it, they are going on, the thing is taken care of, I have not to take care of it any longer, thank heaven!"

Now, what happened? Simply that he crossed the threshold of the diaphragm, for in manipūra one is blind in passion. Of course, when he sees such a couple he thinks, "I want it, I am identical with that man." And he is identical in manipūra. He is identical with every buffalo, and naturally he complains when he cannot jump out of his skin and into the skin of somebody else. But here he suddenly realizes that he is not that man; he breaks through the veil of illusion, that mystical identity, and knows that he is not that fellow. Yet he has an inkling that he is in a peculiar way identical with him, that man is himself continuing life; he is not cast aside. For his substance is not only his personal self but the substance of that young man, too. He himself lives on, and the thing is taken care of. And he is in it, he is not out of it.

You see, that is a picture of psychical existence over or beyond the manipūra form. It is nothing but a thought - nothing has changed in the visible world; not one atom is in a different place from before. But one thing has changed: the psychical substance has entered the game. You see, a mere thought, or almost an indescribable feeling, a psychical fact, changes his whole situation, his whole life, and he can step across to anāhata, to the world where psychical things begin.

Now, going from anāhata to viśuddha is quite analogous, but it goes very much further. You see, in anāhata thought and feeling are identical with objects. For a man, feeling is identical with a certain woman, for instance, and for a woman with that particular man. The thought of a scientist is identical with such-and-such a book. It is such a book. So there are always external conditions, either for the feeling or for the mind. Thought is always specific - scientific, philosophic, or aesthetic, for example - because it is always identical with a particular object. And so feeling is identical with certain people or things. It is because somebody has done so-and-so that one is angry, because there are such-and-such conditions. Therefore our emotions, our values, our thoughts, our convictions are interdependent with facts, with what we call objects. They are not in themselves or through themselves. They are, as I say, interwoven with concrete facts.

You know, it is sometimes an ideal not to have any kind of convictions or feelings that are not based upon reality. One must even educate people, when they have to cross from manipūra to anāhata, that their emotions ought to have a real basis, that they cannot swear hell and damnation at somebody on a mere assumption, and that there are absolute reasons why they are not justified in doing such a thing. They really have to learn that their feelings should be based on facts.

But to cross from anāhata to viśuddha one should unlearn all that. One should even admit that all one's psychical facts have nothing to do with material facts. For instance, the anger which you feel for somebody or something, no matter how justified it is, is not caused by those external things. It is a phenomenon all by itself. That is what we call taking a thing on its subjective level. Say somebody has offended you, and you dream of that person and feel again the same anger in the dream. Then I say, "That dream tells me just what the anger means, what it is in reality." But you contend that the person had said such-and-such a thing, so you are perfectly justified in feeling such anger and assuming such an attitude toward him. Well, I must admit all that to be perfectly true, and then I humbly say, "Now, when you have had your anger and are reasonable again, let us consider this dream, for there is a subjective stage of interpretation. You consider that man to be your specific béte noire [dark beast], but he is really yourself. You project yourself into him, your shadow appears in him, and that makes you angry. Naturally one is not inclined to admit such a possibility, but after a while, when the process of analysis is effective, it dawns upon one that it is most probably true. We are perhaps identical even with our own worst enemy. In other words, our worst enemy is perhaps within ourselves.

If you have reached that stage, you begin to leave anāhata, because you have succeeded in dissolving the absolute union of material external facts with internal or psychical facts. You begin to consider the game of the world as your game, the people that appear outside as exponents of your psychical condition. Whatever befalls you, whatever experience or adventure you have in the external world, is your own experience.

For instance, an analysis does not depend upon what the analyst is. It is your own experience. What you experience in analysis is not due to me; it is what you are. You will have exactly that experience with me which is your own experience. Not everybody falls in love with me, not everybody takes offense when I make a caustic remark, and not everybody admires a very drastic expression I use. The experience in analysis, in which I am always the same Dr. Jung, is a very different procedure with different people. Individuals are very different, and on account of that, analysis is always a different experience, even to myself. I am the one who is equal to myself in all such conditions, but the patients vary, and accordingly the experience of analysis varies to me all the time. But naturally the patient believes that his analysis is so and so because I am in it. He does not see that it is also his subjective experience. As long as the patient looks at analysis in such a way - that it is merely a personal flirtation or a personal discussion - he has not gained what he ought to have gained out of it, because he has not seen himself. When he really begins to see it as his own experience, then he realizes that Dr. Jung, the partner in the game, is only relative. He is what the patient thinks of him. He is simply a hook on which you are hanging your garment; he is not so substantial as he seems to be. He is also your subjective experience.

If you can see that, you are on your way to viśuddha, because in viśuddha the whole game of the world becomes your subjective experience. The world itself becomes a reflection of the psyche. For instance, when I say that the world consists of psychical images only - that whatever you touch, whatever you experience, is imaged because you cannot perceive anything else; that if you touch this table, you might think it substantial, but what you really experience is a peculiar message from the tactile nerves to your brain; and even this you may not experience because I can cut off your fingers, you still experience your fingers only because the cut off nerves cannot function in any other way; and your brain even is also only an image up here - when I say such a heretical thing I am on the way to viśuddha. If I should succeed and I hope I shall not - in taking all of you up to viśuddha, you would certainly complain; you would stifle, you would not be able to breathe any longer, because there is nothing you could possibly breathe. It is ether. In reaching viśuddha, you reach the airless space, where there is no earthly chance for the ordinary individual to breathe. So it seems to be a very critical kind of adventure.

Now, in talking about these centers, we must never omit the actual symbols; they teach us a great deal. I want to call your attention to the animal symbolism of which I have not yet spoken. You know that the series of animals begins in mūlādhāra with the elephant that supports the earth, meaning that tremendous urge which supports human consciousness, the power that forces us to build such a conscious world. To the Hindu the elephant functions as the symbol of the domesticated libido, parallel to the image of the horse with us. It means the force of consciousness, the power of will, the ability to do what one wants to do.

In the next center is the makara, the leviathan. So in crossing from mūlādhāra to svādhisthāna, the power that has nourished you hitherto shows now an entirely different quality: what is the elephant on the surface of the world is the leviathan in the depths. The elephant is the biggest, strongest animal upon the surface of the earth, and the leviathan is the biggest and most terrible animal down in the waters. But it is one and the same animal: the power that forces you into consciousness and that sustains you in your conscious world proves to be the worst enemy when you come to the next center. For there you are really going out of this world, and everything that makes you cling to it is your worst enemy. The greatest blessing in this world is the greatest curse in the unconscious. So the makara is just the reverse: the water elephant, the whale dragon that devours you, is the thing that has nourished and supported you hitherto - just as the benevolent mother that brought you up becomes in later life a devouring mother that swallows you again. If you cannot give her up she becomes an absolutely negative factor - she supports the life of your childhood and youth, but to become adult you must leave all that, and then the mother force is against you. So anyone attempting to leave this world for another kind of consciousness, the water world or the unconscious, has the elephant against him; then the elephant becomes the monster of the underworld.

In manipūra the ram is the symbolic animal, and the ram is the sacred animal of Agni, the god of fire. That is astrological. The ram, Aries, is the domicilium of Mars, the fiery planet of passions, impulsiveness, rashness, violence, and so on. Agni is an apt symbol. It is again the elephant, but in a new form. And it is no longer an insurmountable power - the sacred power of the elephant. It is now a sacrificial animal, and it is a relatively small sacrifice - not the great sacrifice of the bull but the smaller sacrifice of the passions. That is, to sacrifice the passions is not so terribly expensive. The small black animal that is against you is no longer like the leviathan of the depths in the cakra before; the danger has already diminished. Your own passions are really less a danger than to be drowned in unconsciousness; to be unconscious of one's passion is much worse than to suffer from passion. And that is expressed by Aries, the ram; it is a small sacrificial animal of which you don't need to be afraid, for it is no longer equipped with the strength of the elephant or the leviathan. You have overcome the worst danger when you are aware of your fundamental desires or passions.

The next animal is the gazelle, again a transformation of the original force. The gazelle or antelope is not unlike the ram, living upon the surface of the earth - the difference being that it is not a domesticated animal like the male sheep, nor is it a sacrificial animal. It is not at all offensive; it is exceedingly shy and elusive, on the contrary, and very fleet of foot - it vanishes in no time. When you come upon a herd of gazelles, you are always amazed at the way they disappear. They just fly into space with great leaps. There are antelopes in Africa that take leaps of six to ten meters - something amazing; it is as if they had wings. And they are also graceful and tender, and have exceedingly slender legs and feet. They hardly touch the ground, and the least stirring of the air is sufficient to make them fly away, like birds. So there is a birdlike quality in the gazelle. It is as light as air; it touches the earth only here and there. It is an animal of earth, but it is almost liberated from the power of gravity. Such an animal would be apt to symbolize the force, the efficiency, and the lightness of psychical substance - thought and feeling. It has already lost a part of the heaviness of the earth. Also, it denotes that in anāhata the psychical thing is an elusive factor, hardly to be caught. It has exactly the quality that we doctors would mean when we say that it is exceedingly difficult to discover the psychogenic factor in a disease.

Mr. Dell: Would you compare it also to the unicorn?

Dr. Jung: I would say it is a close analogy, and you know the unicorn is a symbol of the Holy Ghost - that would be a Western equivalent. [Jung gave an extended commentary on the symbolic significance of the unicorn in Psychology and Alchemy, in CW, vol. 12, §§ 518-54.]

Mrs. Sawyer: The unicorn derives from the rhinoceros, so that would also be an analogy.

Dr Jung: Yes, the rhinoceros has survived in the legend of the unicorn. The unicorn is not a real animal, but the rhinoceros has been a very real animal in this country. For instance, one half of a rhinoceros has been found, well preserved, in an oil pit somewhere in Eastern Europe - I think in Poland. It was of the glacial period, a European rhinoceros. So the unicorn is most probably a faint echo of those days when man saw the actual rhinoceros here. Of course, one cannot prove it, but it is at least a very nice analogy to our process here - the transformation of the elephant into this tender, gentle, light-footed gazelle.

Now, that is a very apt symbol of the psychogenic factor. And the discovery of the psychogenic factor in medicine was really something you could compare with the crossing from manipūra to anāhata. I remember very well the time when professors said: "Well, there is some psychic disturbance too, naturally imagination has something to do with it, and an upset psychology can produce all sorts of symptoms," and so on. It was thought originally that the psyche was some sort of foam or essence, produced by the body, and nothing in itself, and that so called psychological causality did not really exist, that it was more symptomatic. Not even Freud takes the psychogenic factor as substantial. The psyche for him is something rather physiological, a sort of byplay in the life of the body. He is convinced that there is a lot of chemistry in it, or ought to be - that the whole thing goes back to the chemistry of the body, that it is hormones or God knows what. So the discovery of a real psychogenic factor (which is not yet realized in medicine, please!) is a great and tale-telling event. It would be the recognition of the psyche itself as something that of course functions together with the body, but which has the dignity of a cause. You see, if a doctor admits such a thing he is going really a long way. If he puts the psychogenic factor, as causal, among microbes, colds, unfavorable social conditions, heredity, and so on, with that he recognizes the psyche as something that does exist and has actual effect. The logical medical mind does not quite trust whether it is really something you could lay hands on, for it has that elusive quality of the gazelle. And you know that when the psyche manifests itself in reality, it is usually against us. For inasmuch as it is not against us, it is simply identical with our consciousness. Our consciousness is not against us, and we consider everything to be our own conscious doing, but the psychic factor is always something that we assume to be not our doing. We try to deny it and to repress it. Say I want to write a letter that is disagreeable to me. Then immediately I have the psychic factor against me. I am not able to find that letter - it has been spirited away; I discover that I have mislaid it unconsciously. I wanted to take particular care of that letter, but because I have resistances against it I put it in the wrong pocket or in a corner where I shall not find it for months. One is inclined to speak of an imp that has busied himself with it. One feels something demoniacal in the way just the things one painfully needs are spirited away. The same thing occurs in hysteria: just where it would matter, things take a queer course. Where it is very important that one should say the right thing, one says just the wrong thing: one's words are turned in one’s mouth. So one cannot help recognizing the fact that some living devil is against one. Thus the old idea that such people were possessed by devils, were the victims of witches, and so forth.

Mr. Baumann: There is a very good book by Friedrich Theodor Vischer, Auch Finer (Also One, 1884).

Dr. Jung: Yes, a German book about one of those who know about things, that is, the imp in objects. For instance, when you lose your spectacles you will always lose them in an unlikely place, perhaps upon a chair of such a design that the spectacles fit in perfectly. And you can be absolutely sure that when you drop a piece of buttered toast on the floor it will always fall on the buttered side. Or when you are putting your coffeepot upon the table, it will try by all means to put its spout through the handle of the milk pot, so that you spill the milk when you lift the pot.

Mr. Dell: Die Tucke des Objekts (the malice of objects).

Dr. Jung: Yes, the devilish cunning of objects, and Vischer made a whole system of that in Auch Finer. It is exceedingly quixotic naturally, but he gets the psychic factor all right, because it is in a way our doing, and yet it is not our doing; it happens in an impish way. The elusiveness of the psychogenic factor is amazing. In analysis also it is always escaping, because wherever you try to attack it the patient denies it and says, "But that is what I wanted to do; that is myself." He keeps it out of the way all the time because he himself is afraid to discover it. He is afraid that a screw is loose somewhere in his head; he thinks it would mean that he was mad.

So the crossing over from manipūra to anāhata is really very difficult. The recognition that the psyche is a self-moving thing, something genuine and not yourself, is exceedingly difficult to see and to admit. For it means that the consciousness which you call yourself is at an end. In your consciousness everything is as you have put it, but then you discover that you are not master in your own house, you are not living alone in your own room, and there are spooks about that play havoc with your realities, and that is the end of your monarchy. But if you understand it rightly, and as tantric yoga shows you, this recognition of the psychogenic factor is merely the first recognition of the purusa. It is the beginning of the great recognition appearing in the most grotesque and ridiculous forms. You see, that is what the gazelle signifies.

Now you remember the elephant appears in viśuddha again. So here we encounter the full power, the insurmountable sacred strength of the animal as it was in mūlādhāra. That is, we meet there all the power which led us into life, into this conscious reality. But here it is not supporting mūlādhāra, this earth. It is supporting those things which we assume to be the most airy, the most unreal, and the most volatile, namely, human thoughts. It is as if the elephant were now making realities out of concepts. We admit that our concepts are nothing but our imagination, products of our feeling or of our intellect - abstractions or analogies, sustained by no physical phenomena.

The thing that unites them all, that expresses them all, is the concept of energy. In philosophy, for instance, take the example of Plato in his parable of the cave. He tries by that rather clumsy parable to explain the subjectivity of our judgment, which is really the same idea which was called later on in the history of philosophy the theory of cognition. He describes people sitting in a cave with their backs against the light, looking at the shadows on the wall, cast by the moving figures outside. Now, this is an exceedingly apt parable to explain the problem, but it needed more than two thousand years until that problem was formulated in a philosophically abstract way in Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.

We always have the impression that such philosophical or scientific concepts as energy call them theories or hypotheses - are perfectly futile things that change tomorrow, like a breath of air that has no existence whatever. Yet these are apparently the things sustained and pushed by the elephant, as if the elephant were making a reality of such concepts which are really the mere products of our mind. That is our prejudice - to think that those products are not also realities.

But here is the hitch in the whole thing, this is not so simple. Your speculations lead to abstractions, and these abstractions you very clearly feel to be merely your conclusions. They are artificial; you are never sure that they do exist in reality. But if perchance you should experience in reality what you have concluded, then you say, "Now this is real, insofar as my thought is real." For example, you say, "Tomorrow we shall have a thunderstorm." It is not very likely at this time of the year, but from all the meteorological data you make that conclusion though you yourself think it rather improbable. And tomorrow we do actually have a thunderstorm, and then you say, "Is it not marvelous that I came to such a conclusion? My feeling must be right." So you substantiate your thinking in reality, and this reality affects the whole man. It affects you through and through -you get drenched by the rain, you hear the thunder, and you may be struck by the lightning - you get the whole thing.

Now, according to the symbolism of the cakras something similar happens in viśuddha. The power of the elephant is lent to psychic realities, which our reason would like to consider as mere abstractions. But the power of the elephant is never lent to products of the mere intellect because they are never convincing; they always need physical evidence. And for purely psychical things, there is no possibility of anything like physical evidence. For instance, you know that it is impossible in physical fact ever to make a concept of God, because it is not a physical concept. It has nothing to do with an experience in space and time. It has simply no connection with space and time, and therefore you cannot expect any such subsequent effect. But if you have the psychical experience, if the psychical fact forces itself upon you, then you understand it, and you can then make a concept of it. The abstraction, or the concept of God, has come out of experience. It is not your intellectual concept, though it can be intellectual too. But the main thing in such an experience is that it is a psychical fact. And psychical facts are the reality in viśuddha. Therefore the insurmountable force of reality is sustaining no longer the data of this earth but psychical data.

For example, you know that you would like to do something very much, but you feel it is simply not to be, as if there were an absolute interdiction. Or you feel very strongly that you don't want to do a certain thing, yet the psychical factor demands it, and you know there is no defense - you must go that way; there is no hesitation about it. That is the power of the elephant, which you feel perhaps even in what you would call absurdities. Those are the experiences of the reality of viśuddha as expressed by the symbolism.

That is only the fifth cakra, and we are already out of breath - literally so - we are beyond the air we breathe; we are reaching, say, into the remote future of mankind, or of ourselves. For any man has at least the potential faculty to experience that which will be the collective experience in two thousand years, perhaps in ten thousand years. What we are dealing with today has already been we don't know how many millions of times before in dim ages of the past by primitive medicine men, or by old Romans or Greeks it has all been anticipated. And we anticipate thousands of years to come, so we really reach out into a future, which we do not yet possess. Therefore it is rather bold to speak of the sixth cakra, [Of the ājñā cakra, Hauer stated: "The god, man power, has disappeared at this stage, but a differentiated woman power is still working, and disappears only in the last cakra. I am not sure whether you will find psychological parallels for that" (HS, 90).] which is naturally completely beyond our reach, because we have not even arrived at viśuddha. But since we have that symbolism we can at least construct something theoretical about it.

The ājñā center, you remember, looks like a winged seed, and it contains no animal. That means there is no psychical factor, nothing against us whose power we might feel. The original symbol, the linga, is here repeated in a new form, the white state. Instead of the dark germinating condition, it is now in the full blazing white light, fully conscious. In other words, the God that has been dormant in mūlādhāra is here full awake, the only reality; and therefore this center has been called the condition in which one unites with Śiva. One could say it was the center of the unio mystica with the power of God, meaning that absolute reality where one is nothing but psychic reality, yet confronted with the psychic reality that one is not. And that is God. God is the eternal psychical object. God is simply a word for the non-ego. In viśuddha psychical reality was still opposed to physical reality. Therefore one still used the support of the white elephant to sustain the reality of the psyche. Psychical facts still took place within us, although they had a life of their own.

But in the ājñā center the psyche gets wings - here you know you are nothing but psyche. And yet there is another psyche, a counterpart to your psychical reality, the non-ego reality, the thing that is not even to be called self, and you know that you are going to disappear into it. The ego disappears completely; the psychical is no longer a content in us, but we become contents of it. You see that this condition in which the white elephant has disappeared into the self is almost unimaginable. He is no longer perceptible even in his strength because he is no longer against you. You are absolutely identical with him. You are not even dreaming of doing anything other than what the force is demanding, and the force is not demanding it since you are already doing it - since you are the force. And the force returns to the origin, God.

To speak about the lotus of the thousand petals above, the sahasrāra center, is quite superfluous because that is merely a philosophical concept with no substance to us whatever; it is beyond any possible experience. In ājñā there is still the experience of the self that is apparently different from the object, God. But in sahasrāra one understands that it is not different, and so the next conclusion would be that there is no object, no God, nothing but Brahman. There is no experience because it is one, it is without a second. It is dormant, it is not, and therefore it is nirvana. This is an entirely philosophical concept, a mere logical conclusion from the premises before. It is without practical value for us.

Mrs. Sawyer: I would like to ask you if the Eastern idea of going up through the cakras means that each time you have reached a new center you have to return to mūlādhāra?

Dr. Jung: As long as you live you are in mūlādhāra naturally. It is quite self-evident that you cannot always live in meditation, or in a trance condition. You have to go about in this world; you have to be conscious and let the gods sleep.

Mrs. Sawyer: Yes, but you could think of it in two ways: as doing all these things together, or as making a trip up and down.

Dr. Jung: The cakra symbolism has the same meaning that is expressed in our metaphors of the night sea journey, or climbing a sacred mountain, or initiation. It is really a continuous development. It is not leaping up and down, for what you have arrived at is never lost. Say you have been in mūlādhāra and then you reach the water center, and afterward you return apparently. But you do not return; it is an illusion that you return - you have left something of yourself in the unconscious. Nobody touches the unconscious without leaving something of himself there. You may forget or repress it, but then you are no longer whole. When you have learned that two times two makes four, it will be so in all eternity - it will never be five. Only those people return who thought they touched it but were only full of illusions about it. If you have really experienced it, you cannot lose this experience. It is as if so much of your substance had remained, so much of your blood and weight. You can return to the previous condition, forgetting that you have lost a leg, but your leg has been bitten off by the leviathan. Many people who got into the water say, "Never shall I go there again!" But they left something, something has stayed there. And if you get through the water and into the fire of passion, you never can really turn back, because you cannot lose the connection with your passion that you have gained in manipūra.

Question: Is it like Wotan, who loses one eye?

Dr. Jung: Exactly. And like Osiris, the god of the underworld, who also loses one eye. Wotan has to sacrifice his one eye to the well of Mimir, the well of wisdom, which is the unconscious. You see, one eye will remain in the depths or turned toward it. [For Jung's analysis of Wotan, in which he does not specifically deal with this motif, see “Wotan" (1936), in CW, vol. 10.] Thus Jakob Boehme, when he was "enchanted into the center of nature," as he says, wrote his book about the "reversed eye." One of his eyes was turned inward; it kept on looking into the underworld - which amounts to the loss of one eye. He had no longer two eyes for this world. So when you have actually entered a higher cakra you never really turn back; you remain there. Part of you can split off, but the farther you have reached into the series of the cakras, the more expensive will be the apparent return. Or if you return, having lost the memory of the connection with that center, then you are like a wraith. In reality you are just nothing, a mere shadow, and your experiences remain empty.

Mrs. Crowley: Do you think the idea is to experience those cakras, which one has gone through, simultaneously?

Dr. Jung: Certainly. As I told you, in our actual historical psychological development we have about reached anāhata and from there we can experience mūlādhāra, and all the subsequent centers of the past, by knowledge of records, and tradition, and also through our unconscious. Suppose somebody reached the ājñā center, the state of complete consciousness, not only self-consciousness. That would be an exceedingly extended consciousness, which includes everything - energy itself - a consciousness, which knows not only "That is Thou" but more than that - every tree, every stone, every breath of air, every rat's tail - all that is yourself; there is nothing that is not yourself. In such an extended consciousness all the cakras would be simultaneously experienced, because it is the highest state of consciousness, and it would not be the highest if it did not include all the former experiences. C.G. Jung, The Psychology of KUNDALINI YOGA, pp. 42-59.


Gregory


Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Regarding the Chakras
Gregory & All

Good idea to discuss this text once.

Gregory Sova wrote:
And the next form we reach is viśuddha ... which is the ether center. Now, what is ether? Do you know anything about it from the physical point of view?

Remark: It penetrates everything.

Mrs. Sawyer: You cannot catch it.

Dr. Jung: Why not? Since it penetrates everywhere, why can it not be found everywhere?

Mr. Dell: It cannot be measured; it is a thought.

Dr. Jung: Yes, one finds it only within one's brain, nowhere else; it is a concept of substance that has none of the qualities that matter should have. It is matter that is not matter, and such a thing must necessarily be a concept. Now, in the viśuddha center beyond the four elements one reaches what stage?

Mrs. Crowley: A more conscious state, abstract thought perhaps?

Dr. Jung: Yes, one reaches a sphere of abstraction.


Here I do not agree with Jung. The one that penetrates everything is the antineutrino that Wolfgang Pauli "invented". It does almost not react with matter, thus it penetrates it.

In my theory the antineutrino is what I call matter-psyche, the magic energy of the unus mundus (the latter a deeper "realm" than the collective unconscious!).

Jung, however, interprets the ether with the thought {"one finds [the ether] only within one's brain, nowhere else;"}. This shows Jung's Neoplatonic worldview. This shows also that he thought that Active Imagination must be verbal (as I mentioned above).

In Body-Centered Imagination we, however, go down into the belly. As in the Hermetic alchemical opus the king must die. In dying he enters the vagina of the queen. This is the second chakra (or perhaps the first?). This is what I call abandoning the Logos and entering the Eros. There the reunion of the Eros ego with the Eros Self is possible. And this is the way how we can overcome the split between outer and inner world, between physics and depth psychology.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:07 pm
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Post Criticism of Jung's Kundalini Yoga text
Quote:
So we can say that our civilization has reached the state of anāhata - we have overcome the diaphragm. We no longer locate the mind in the diaphragm, as the Old Greeks did in Homeric times. We are convinced that the seat of consciousness must be somewhere up in the head. We already have a more farsighted view in anāhata; we become aware of the purusa. But we do not yet trust the security of psychical existence, so we have not reached viśuddha. We still believe in a material world built of matter and psychical force. And we cannot connect the psychical existence or substance with the idea of anything cosmic or physical. We have not yet found the bridge between the ideas of physics and psychology. [Jung attempted such a bridge in his collaboration with the physicist Wolfgang Pauli in The Interpretation of Nature and the Psyche (Bollingen Series LI, 1955). On this issue, see especially Wolfgang Pauli und C. G. Jung: Ein Briefwechsel 1932-1958, edited by C. A. Meier (Berlin, 1992).]


Jung and Pauli did not find this bridge. As I show in my book Return of the World Soul, Wolfgang Pauli, C.G. Jung and the Challenge of Psychophysical Reality, Part I (will be published in September 2011) they defined physics and depth psychology as complementary in the meaning of the so-called Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics. There this concept means that we do not know what matter is. We can look at it with one instrument, then we see it as a wave, or with another then we see it as a particle. Symbolically seen we can say that physics is the particle sight, depth psychology the wave sight.

However, the complementarity concept also means that the particle cannot transform into a wave and vice versa.

Now I go on and define the energy term in such a complementary way: inner spirit-psyche as Jung's objective psychic energy, and outer spirit-psyche as the physical energy term. Both of them are unipolar. And, as I said, one cannot transform the one into the other, and vice versa.

This shows also that Jung's collective unconscious is spirit-psyche; and this is why Jung translates "ether" into "spirit" -- the collective spirit out of which the individual spirit (Logos ego) is created.

The antineutrino, "my" ether, however, is the "particle/wave" that is made of the "other energy". I call it matter-psyche. It belongs to the psychophysical reality or unus mundus. This shows also that the latter cannot be the same thing as Jung's collective unconscious. It is something completely different -- the Eros Self.

As Gregory wrote above, only with the help of the Eros ego we can have a relationship with the Eros Self. As much as I see, Purusha is a symbol of the Eros Self. And he/she is located in the human heart, in the anahata.

This is why I think that we did not yet reach the anahata, as Jung tells us. We have somehow transformed the energy in the third chakra, aggression, into the Logos (fifth chakra?). But since Christianity represses sexuality so much, we have not been able to transform the energy in the second (or first?) chakra, the sexual energy, into its "refined form". This is the task of the 21st century, the observation of the so-called coniunctio, of the sexual intercourse of the god and the goddess, and Jung writes to Pauli that he did not succeed in this task:

Quote:
The problem of the coniunctio must be kept for the future; it is more than I can cope with, and my heart reacts if I exert myself too much along these lines.
(Atom and Archetype, The Pauli/Jung Letters 1932 – 1958, ed. CA Meier, Springer, Berlin, 2001, p. 101


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:35 pm
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Post Criticism of Jung's Kundalini Yoga text III
And a third aspect of Jung's interpretation that I do not agree with: In the first and the second session he says that muladhara is our consciousness !!! What an absurd statement. In fact, it corresponds to the unus mundus, the psychophysical reality, also the Beyond. This is why we must go down into our belly with the help of the Eros ego. There we reach the Eros Self, and it seems, at least in me, that the process from the bottom to the top happens itself. Thus, when we can come down deeply enough, spontaneously we come also into the three upper chakras.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Criticism of Jung's Kundalini Yoga text
Remo Roth wrote:
This is why I think that we did not yet reach the anahata, as Jung tells us. We have somehow transformed the energy in the third chakra, aggression, into the Logos (fifth chakra?). But since Christianity represses sexuality so much, we have not been able to transform the energy in the second (or first?) chakra, the sexual energy, into its "refined form". This is the task of the 21st century, the observation of the so-called coniunctio, of the sexual intercourse of the god and the goddess, and Jung writes to Pauli that he did not succeed in this task:


With this statement I have come back to Mats' question. I believe that BCI is a modern form of spirituality that includes the sexual drive energy. This means that we have to do BCI with sexual fantasies. And this can become a really weird thing, I can tell you!

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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Post BCI & Sexual Fanticies
Quote:
Remo wrote: This means that we have to do BCI with sexual fantasies. And this can become a really weird thing, I can tell you!


Remo, perhaps you could tell us more about this. As far as I can see in my process I don’t do BCI with sexual fantasies. Do you try to conjure them up? Or do the inner figure(s) just naturally invite you into this kind of fantasy. In any event, “Why the difference? Is there something about a difference in personal equations that explains this (feeling vs thinking) or different life experiences and thus associations?” Or is it as you assume – the Christian eon has blocked Gregory/others from their sexuality too much and that is why this does not show up in their material. And like this the inner life skips the aggression chakra movement over the heart chakra and lands it in the throat chakra if I follow your drift.

It has been my 30 year long experience/struggle and involvement with the inner life via the content of my dreams & visions that if I had not approached the feminine principle deeply enough, i.e., on its own terms – then like this She comes at me with legs spread wide open. This went on for almost 25 years, oh a silver anniversary of disconnect. But now this rarely if ever happens. I attribute this to finally being able to tune into Eros ego consciousness deeply enough so that this symbolism of sexual union desire, i.e. a desire for a deeper psychological intimacy with the feminine principle, was no longer needed. Well, that’s how it struck me anyway. Earlier on there was a lot of imagery of being with prostitutes and in dark run down parts of town, etc. - especially in the early years of analysis.

Gregory


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Post Re: Criticism of Jung's Kundalini Yoga text
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Last edited by Jess Marks on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Criticism of Jung's Kundalini Yoga text
Just a simple thank you to all.

Remo Roth wrote:
With this statement I have come back to Mats' question. I believe that BCI is a modern form of spirituality that includes the sexual drive energy. This means that we have to do BCI with sexual fantasies. And this can become a really weird thing, I can tell you!

Remo


Remo, thanks for the insight! Like so many times on the forum it is nice to know that I am not doing it wrong and I am not the only one.

Gregory, thank you for assuming there are people who don't yet know about the chakras. I am still learning and you guys are really helping.


Much Love, Jalah


Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:24 am
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Post Re: BCI & Sexual Fanticies
Jess, Jalah, Gregory

I hope I can show you an example. First, however, I recommand a book by Melina Costello: Seeking the God of Ecstasy, A Spiritual Journey of Sexual Awakening published in Oct 2010 by O-Books, Winchester, GB/Washington, USA. She found her way of dealing with sexual fantasies completely independently of me. Only when she had finished the book, she contacted me and I wrote the following to her (that is now published in the Advance Praise Section):

Quote:
C.G. Jung anticipated that “Man’s procreative power is only a special instance of the procreative nature of the Whole”. This deeper procreation and conception process is described in the Hermetic alchemical coniunctio as the sexual unification of the goddess and the god that leads to new creation and incarnation in the universe. However, as a result of his Neoplatonic prejudice the instinctive realm and the human body did not become sufficiently included into the theory of the depth psychologist.
Melina Costello has the courage to face this deeply introverted process of the sexual union with Dionysus and Pan. This way, she shows us that the process of the Holy Wedding today constellated as the unification of the god and the human being, is empirically observable. By surrendering to the allegedly destructive demons instead of fighting against them as in Active Imagination, she extends the methodology of Jungian depth psychology by this deeply feminine acausal behavior. She experiences the coniunctio of Hermetic alchemy, which, according to Jung, symbolically represents the unsolved task of Analytical Psychology and the challenge of the 21st century.


The book is really worth to buy and read. She also writes in the book that her relationship with her husband was influenced in a positive way by her imaginations.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:11 am
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Post The Clitoris
See next post.

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:18 am
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Post The Clitoris of the World Soul
On Jan 10, 2011 I posted a very bizarre dream of Marie-Louise von Franz from September 6, 1985; see

http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ranz#11914

I'd like to copy the text here:

Quote:
Quote:
Dream of Marie-Louise von Franz and the Clitoris:

Marie-Louise von Franz tells me (literally):

"THE FIFTH DIMENSION OF SPACETIME RESPECTIVELY THE UNCERTAINTY OF SPACETIME CORRESPONDS TO THE CLITORIS OF THE WOMAN."


I was shocked about this dream when I had it, I can tell you; though I was used to talk with MLvF in a very open way about sexuality. Only later I realized that the "unconscious" took this sexual manner of expression since all this has to do with the coniunctio, the Holy Wedding, the archetype that is so much constellated today, especially because of our crime, the artificial fission of the atom (and with it the artificial liberation of radioactivity).

The fifth dimension is the dimension behind our world; it is the unus mundus, the psychophysical reality, the Beyond. It is the world of the World Soul, of the divine woman that can create out of herself; of her, who has the self-fertilizing and self-procreative ability; of the Goddess that does not need a man to become fertilized and give birth; the Goddess that creates acausally -- without masculine causality.

In this fifth dimension there is "a woman". It is "the woman" form the Apocalypse with her child. As Jung stresses, it is just "a woman". This means that the ability to create and incarnate acausally is an ability that is constellated in every human. We modern humans must open to this possibility.

That she can create without the help of "a man", without causal means, is stressed in the idea that that her clitoris is the procreative organ. She has a c...; she doesn't need the one of a man. This is the "naked truth" that the dream liked to tell me.

And she creates spontaneously, i.e. in the kairos, during the right (but accidential) time. And in an accidential place. This means the above term "uncertainty of spacetime". "Accidential place" means that this can happen in everyone; one needn't be a Jungian or some similar strange being. Everyone has this ability; and when these incarnation events begin to happen, we must be prepared. Otherwise we are in danger to get sick -- physically or psychically.

This is it what also the above "cross image" talks about. I needed some decades to find the answer. But now I have it, and I talk about it.


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:24 am
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Post The BCI with the Clit of the World Soul
During that time I worked with a woman with the diagnosis schizophrenia. I had realized that she was in danger to fall back into her disease when she did not live her carnal lust. Since the clitoris is the "lust organ" of a woman, I knew that also in me there was such a woman who liked to live her carnal lust. Thus, I realized that I had the task to give her sexual satisfaction.

Thus, I decided to "do it" with her.

[I did not talk to her, as Jung perhaps had, since I felt that she was very horny. With such a horny woman one cannot talk, one has to give her sexual satisfaction! This is why this was not an Active Imagination, but a Body-Centered Imagination. Perhaps I invented it in these years.]

I began to caress her clit. And then the acausal "birth" happened. Spontaneously a longish object came out of her vagina. It was not a natural penis, no. It looked silvery, somehow like a missile. Later I had seen the following image of the Swiss Re tower in London that looks like this "penis":

Image

The "penis" began to oscillate, in and out and in and out. I was reminded of the needle of a seismograph: a regular oscillation, and suddenly, spontaneously a big amplitude (that shows that an earthquake has happened).

Image

Suddenly, spontaneously a spheric UFO approaches the vagina of the woman (the world soul I realized later). It has a diameter of perhaps 50 centimeters.

It seems that the "penis" in the vagina of the world soul is able to communicate with the UFO.

Suddenly I see an alien. He says something about "toothache".

I realize that my heavy toothache that I had for some days had disappeared.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:02 am
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Post Synchronistic Confirmation
Only in Dec 2003 I was really able to understand this BCI. I saw that the "penis of the vagina" is a symbol of the self-fertilizing ability of the world soul; a symbol of the possibility of spontaneous, acausal creation in the universe. It is what Christian theology calls the creatio continua. After the creatio ex nihilo in the first sentences of Genesis (or after the big bang in astrophysics) further creation is possible in the universe. This creation is acausal, i.e. feminine (and causality is a masculine invention). We can also say that the "penis of the vagina" is the potential yang in the yin. And when we observe such phenomena, they become incarnated. In my case this meant that "vegetative energy" was created that healed my toothache.

On Dec 15, 2003 I wrote this insight to a member of the UM forum. I had just sent it and then saw that a porno email was sent to me [In these times the spam filters were not as good as today.] It was a porn mail about "the big clits" ... !!!

This was a synchronicity to me that showed me that the "penis of the vagina" of the world soul is in fact the potential yang in the yin. This means that when such processes are constellated, we should enter a BCI and observe what happens. In this way we help the world soul to incarnate her potential birth. The birth is acausal, i.e. it comes out of "nothing" (no fertilizing man is needed). Something completely new has incarnated into our space- and time-bound world.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:26 am
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Post Modern Mysticism Includes Sexuality
I saw further that such processes are modern examples of the mystic process of the so-called tikkun of the Cabbalist Isaak Luria. I just wrote about it in the thread "3 quarks". Jung describes the process as follows:

Quote:
Here the thought emerges for the first time that man must help God to repair the damage wrought by the Creation. For the first time man's cosmic responsibility is acknowledged. [Letters, Volume II, p. 155; letter from Feb 16, 1954 to James Kirsch]


And in an early letter:

Quote:
So far as I can grasp the nature of the collective unconscious [unus mundus; RFR], it seems to me like an omnipresent continuum, an unextended Everywhere. That is to say, when something happens here at point A which touches upon or affects the collective unconscious [unus mundus; RFR], it has happened everywhere.“ [Letters, Volume I, p. 58]


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:37 am
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Post clitoris/" man in the boat"
In high school kids used to refer to the clitoris as "the man in the boat." It is in archetecture - especially church architecture in 13the century Europe - a figure in the gynecological portals: some are very dramaic - a figure flying out of the top.


Image

Boats are gynecological psychological forms and in paintings the leader -"Self" - is often presented as clitoris in relationship to the vagina/boat.

Image

Kind of wonderful: The boat (mother) contains the people, like the church.


Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:48 am
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Post The Meaning of the telepathic UFO
In 1985 I did not really understand why suddenly a UFO was near the vagina of the world soul. Today I know that "UFO" means physical energy with higher order created by the spontaneous self-creation of the world soul. It is the result of the twin process that happens in BCI: Masculine energy, "normal" psychic energy (inner spirit-psyche), is transformed into "feminine" energy, into matter-psyche, the magic energy of the world soul in the unus mundus -- the process that happens when we accept the transformation of the Logos ego into the Eros ego -- and retransformed into physical energy, however of higher order or higher negentropy. This process is the healing process.

People who see UFOs do not know that they transform unconsciously into the Eros ego.

Further, telepathy means that psychic energy (or inner spirit-psyche) is in the same way transformed into matter-psyche and retransformed into psychic energy of higher order.

Physics and science in general cannot understand the former process, psychology not the latter. They cannot understand it, since they do not accept the reality of matter-psyche, of the energy of the world soul. Both believe in the law of conservation of energy. This is true for the quantity of energy, but not for the quality. In the twin process higher order is created, be it in the physical world, be it in the psychic.

Thus, with the help of this sexual BCI I began to understand these processes and was able to create my theory of the psychophysical reality that will be published in Return of the World Soul, Part II.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:44 pm
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Post fringe
In an episode of the series Fringe, they discovered a cylinder at the origin of an earthquake,
it looks like the tower of London. At the end of the episode, the object disappears underground.
I can not remember if later, it will again question the cylinder in the series.



Image

themes of the series:

Image

_________________
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ( Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw )


Last edited by fox on Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:47 pm
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Post Re: Synchronicity Confirmation
Quote:
Remo wrote: In my case this meant that "vegetative energy" was created that healed my toothache.(after helping her to orgasm)


Remo I have noticed more and more strange body sensations like your toothache in these latter years of individuation. When I acknowledged their presence as somehow being connected to some pending insight they would slowly disappear within a few minutes. Like this I began to learn that the WS “tingles” this or that part of my body in connection to some symbolic message trying to be communicated. I am wondering if that “tingling” becomes chronic if the message is not getting through, is blocked. Oh, as I type this in I am flashing back to the Marionette business – a connection to the thin thread by which the fate of the world hangs.

Gregory


Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:55 pm
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