The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Infinity divided 
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:24 am
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Location: Moscow, Russia
Post Infinity divided
Hi all!

There was one question that bothered me for some time - how infinite God could have created world with finite objects in it? I mean, is it possible to any man to, say, pick one atom of his body from another? To know accurate position and other parameters of it for the exact nano-second of time? To pick that atom up and move it right next to another atom? Even thinking about it seems absurd, and yet from the point of view of, say, our Sun there is no difference between one atom and whole body of a man - both are equally insignificant to it. And yet one star is absolutely insignificant compared to any meta-galaxy.


At the same time we can measure all these things. We can compare them, we can view them in perspective. Infinity falls out of this row - it cannot be compared to anything. Infinity, divided by any finite number would be still infinity. So, if in the beginning there was only infinite God with his infinite attributes, just how could have all various finite forms came to life? There's still a gap in the physics of Big Bang - there are only some really weird theories about emergence of our Universe from initial singularity, but not one sound (or even comprehensible for us, normal people) explanation. Thinking about it gave me only one answer that I've accepted - answer already known to any gnosticist, hermetist, zoroastrist or any other 'mystic'. And that answer is: at the same time our physical Universe was created, even before the very first quantum of time had passed (as there was yet no time), the other, psychical reality had been bound to it. Without the very first emanation of that Absolute Psyche, God could not overcome it's own infinity, God could not create mortality and anything finite and transient. And that first emanation was The Word - some kind of infinitely complicated and yet infinitely simple construct, that combined with infinite physical reality gave us the illusion of diversity, of finite forms and different contents.


Why do I say illusion? Well, it's quite simple - take any fractal and look at it closely. It has no beginning and no end, and length of it's contours is infinite - but at the same time we can perceive it as a finite form. But it is only an illusion - any true fractal is still infinite by its nature. Then we can take another logical leap of faith and conclude that at least one way for infinite God to dissolve itself in infinite variety of finite forms was to create Universe as one infinitely complex fractal. This all highly correlates with cosmogony of Hinduism, Taoism, or any other religion for that matter, so there's nothing new in itself. But there is some interesting implication of that theory.

We may see that there is some sort of close and tight connection between physical and psychical reality. We perceive them as divided, but they are bound to each other like real and imaginary parts of complex number (I was talking about it in another topic). That 'complex number' is what lies beneath synchronicity, that is what makes this whole system work - Unus Mundus, maybe still invisible to most of us, is the true life of our Universe, always was and always will be. But, of course, that was already said by Jung and Pauli, and later Remo, so that's no news either.


What is interesting here, is that by co-aligning physical and psychical parts of reality in one's consciousness, we can start to perceive Unus Mundus as it is, without illusions of physical discretion or psychical randomness. So, the first major conclusion would be - do not neglect physical part of your life. It was always a problem for me, so I'm stressing it now - always try not only to train your body and mind alike, but also do it harmonically, so they would pull each other forward, instead of stopping each other. Practitioners of yoga, tai chi, qigong or any other Eastern school are living to that principle for thousands of years, but in Western civilization it is still a much neglected concept. Look at psyche and physical body as left and right legs - anyone would like to run freely, not to stumble upon themselves. As I recall, only Gurdjieff and maybe Deunov were trying to stress and explain importance of physical practices. On the other hand, modern psychotherapy is coming to this conclusion as well, so maybe it's not all that bad as it seems )


Second major conclusion - there is actually no other limit to our powers than limits of our own soul. If we are all infinite by our nature, than all our boundaries and restrictions are not some hard walls, but rather some strange curves and spirals. Yet again, it is already stated in many religions and mystical schools, but for me having some mathematical concept behind this thesis is very important. Critically important, I'd say. And even more - if our (potential) powers in physical and psychical worlds are really infinite, then I don't have to worry about a lot of things. It doesn't mean that I'm some sort of lunatic, who is neglecting his own fears and needs - it means I'm more concentrated on 'how?' and 'what for globally?' I'm doing something, and not on 'can I?' and 'isn't it all pointless anyway?' )


As I've said, having at least some modern mathematical/physical theory behind my hermetic world view is critically important to me. Maybe I'll never come close to 'real' alchemy or magic, but still I do like what is happening in my life now - how my psyche and physical body works, how easy I can solve some problems that are considered hard by others, how can I make my life and life of my close ones a little better, a little closer to true life and freedom of Unus Mundus. And being rationalist and pragmatist by my own nature I can say - it really works, there's no more self-delusion in that than in any other life aspect. Maybe even less )

Sorry for the large post and too many pictures ) I do not spend much time on the Internet lately, so maybe I'm trying to say too much in one post. Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough. And God forbid if it looks like I'm trying to give a lecture of some sort, or even worse - a sermon. No, I'm only trying to share my own experiences and feelings, and looking for some resonant thoughts, some correlated (not only by formal logic) experiences and ideas. And judging by other threads it is working already )

Best of luck to all,

Alchemy is a dance of life.

Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:29 pm
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:36 pm
Posts: 156
Location: France
Post Re: Infinity divided
Wayfarer wrote:
There was one question that bothered me for some time - how infinite God could have created world with finite objects in it?

I was pleased to read this post dated Aug 13, 8/13, in my countrytime at least, as today was a big day to me.
This big question has been explored by Gnosis, that multiplied the hypostases of God up to an Eon who was far from God's perfection, and who created this imperfect, finite, world. God had then to send his Messenger, Jesus, to help it.
There is a slightly different 'explanation' in Lurianic kabbala, with Tsimtsum : God was not God when he created the world.

I feel too a vertigo in front of some math entities which are in a way finite, and in another infinite.
Many sequences are infinite, but the sum of their infinite terms can often be finite.
There are such formulas with Fibonacci type sequences, I'll leave it here...

Soon after my last post about Luria's 'name WHAT' and 'name CLOUD',
I read a book by Richard Montanari, one of those horrible stories where the author feels obliged to invent a serial killer fiercer than all the other ones... I wouldn't have gone very far if its 3 parts hadn't been introduced by poetic quotes :
1 WAlT WHiTmAn
2 Virginia CLOUD
3 CARL Sandburg
The 2 first ones made me think of the WHAT-CLOUD trick I discovered while writing my previous post, that had to do with JUNG, and the 3rd one was a CARL. And there was a Fibo pattern as the 2 first parts had 68 chapters, and the last one 42, 68/42 = 34/21.

So I read this Badlands, where I learnt that Philadelphia was the first city drawn like a checkerboard, that it had a Center Square with 4 other Squares equidistant of it, in the four directions, a mandala.
I was curious to find a map showing this, but I came to find Center Square was not at all central on first maps, but involved in a Fibonacci pattern, with 3 streets N, 5 st S, 8 st W, 13 st E.


Actually this even went worse with the real city, in which there was 5 st N and 8 st S, so the historic city has 13+21 streets, and I once found using gematria that
PHI might just be Phi, the golden ratio on which converges the ratio of 2 successive Fibos
LA = 13
DEL = 21
PHIA = 34
I didn't mention yet that in my studies about JUNG/HAEMMERLI = 52/84 = 13/21, and I happen to find the sync with the real Philadelphia a few days after Jung's 136th anniversary (52+84).
Anybody know of a correlation between Jung and Philly ?
My much more detailed post on my English blog there :
http://quaternity4.blogspot.com/2011/08 ... iment.html

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:13 pm
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