UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:16 pm



 [ 126 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 Discussion of Return of the World Soul 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:55 am
Posts: 262
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
fox wrote:
[...]
More seriously, between 2008 and 2010, I had a dozen dream about the Dalai Lama. I had not read any book by him, (I decided to read one, finally), I am not a Buddhist or Asian. And recently, I had another dream about the Red Book, so I was very interressed by the image of the Dalai Lama with the Red Book.

It's "funny" because today I ordered a book on yoga :) because of an "old" dream :
I have to go to dinner. (On the initiative of my father?) We are few. Everyone sits down to eat except me. I am standing before a bookcase to look at books that seem to interest me much. I wonder if it's not impolite in comparison with other guests but it did not seem to upset them. I am looking for a book. And suddenly I find myself in front of another bookcase that contains large red leather-bound books. They all have the same title: "YOGA". It's dark. In fact, I'm in a sort of corridor at each end, there is a bookcase and one end of the corridor is rather shrouded in darkness and in the other end is illuminated. I return to the first bookcase.

I am interested in Jung's psychology so in the first bookcase, there must be Jungian books.

And this morning, I had a very short dream where a woman comes up to me to give me a red book.


This is probably your own Red Book, a project which the anima wants you to engage in(?). Your yoga dream is interesting. The word is repeated in the titles, which could denote its importance. Jung persistently warned against the practice of yoga by Westerners. Christian mystics have also rejected what they term as 'quietism', the technique of emptying the soul of all content. From a Jungian perspective, specific practices and disciplines cannot replace a moral commitment, and Eastern practices of meditation and yoga seem to have been anathema to Jung.

In International Journal of Jungian Studies, Issue 1, 2010, there is an article about Jung's negative view of yoga: 'Revisiting Jung's dialogue with yoga' [1]. I don't know whether Jung was correct in his misgivings about yoga. I have a Christian bias, so I tend to side with Jung in this issue, but I am not certain. Yoga could mean so many different things. Bhakti yoga, for instance, "is the yoga of devotion. This path is the way of love and devotion. It is the path of self-surrender, of devoting and dedicating all human resources to attaining the ultimate reality."[2]

What Westerners often misunderstand about yoga, I think, is the fact that it demands a high level of commitment to yoga philosophy. It's not simply the question of sitting down and meditating, now and then. That's not yoga. So those yoga books are probably very philosophical, and they probably don't contain much about "breathing techniques", etc. The term yoga could also denote the technique and philosophy of relating to the unconscious, and this is what your unconscious presents to you, as a future project, perhaps. So it could denote a "new form of yoga". The unconscious uses this word because it is exotic, and Indian yoga best approximates what the unconscious means. Arguably, those books haven't been written yet, and the corridor denotes a movement from darkness into the light.

Mats Winther


Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:47 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 645
Location: Lyon, France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Thanks Mats, I think you're right.

_________________
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ( Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw )


Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:51 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 782
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Post Re:
Jung did however, write the introduction to D.T. suzuki's English language (Grove Ptess) most influential "Introduction to Zen" which virtually introduced zen Buddhism to the United States in the 1950s. Dr. Suzuki was a Japanese who came to Columbia to teach in the 1950 and was a favorite of the beat culture there. But zen is actually a form of Tao.


Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:29 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 782
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Post Re:
Jung did however, write the introduction to D.T. Suzuki's English language (Grove Press) most influential "Introduction to Zen" which virtually introduced zen Buddhism to the United States in the 1950s. Dr. Suzuki was a Japanese who came to Columbia to teach in the 1950 and was a favorite of the beat culture there. But zen is actually a form of Tao.

Fox - As I might have mentioned here before I write about things here from an American perspective which I see as a place of existential transition. The old gods do not appear to carry across the waters and new religion developed; Baptists, Mormons, Moravians, all sorts of things - Amish - that I see every day and did not persist in the same way in Europe. America is a Pacific nation as well as an Atlantic nation and increasingly this division occurs here. The old anthropologists say that in three generations American immigrants will lose their old world culture and religion. Native American is a common guide since Fennimore Cooper and as Cooper suggested, the Native American leads the Euro/American to the East.

But had my family remained in Ireland and France I think I would happily led my life where I began it here, in a Catholic seminary and monastery.

I am 65 and have dreams of Native Americans at key times of my earlier life: The day before I married I dreamed an Indian was driving us across a bridge. A few years later an Indian group led to a stone circle in the forest and backed away. A stick man climbed out of the stone temple but the Indians could not enter. After many dreams I left the temple with two books in my hand - one said "Hinduism" and one said "Buddhism" - an Indian guide came back in war paint, dragged his thumb over the books and said, "That's trash." Thereafter until recently I have dreamed prominently of a pleasant elderly woman named "Mrs. Brown." I've learned that many Canadians and English people dream of "Mrs. Brown" and it may suggest Victoria who was known as "Mrs. Brown." (In English lore the incarnation of the Earth Mother: See Robert Graves, "The White Goddess.") My grandmother came from Manchester and in this and other dreams it suggested that ancient memory persists and when it occurs may or should be considered a guide.

Also, I don't support the American initiatives anywhere else including music and movies but there will be no holding them back - Huxley and Malraux wrote of them as the most insidious forms of propaganda to dominate the world. Jung called it the "American tempo."


Last edited by Bernie Quigley on Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:29 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
fox wrote:
More seriously, between 2008 and 2010, I had a dozen dream about the Dalai Lama. I had not read any book by him, (I decided to read one, finally), I am not a Buddhist or Asian. And recently, I had another dream about the Red Book, so I was very interressed by the image of the Dalai Lama with the Red Book.

It's "funny" because today I ordered a book on yoga :) because of an "old" dream :
I have to go to dinner. (On the initiative of my father?) We are few. Everyone sits down to eat except me. I am standing before a bookcase to look at books that seem to interest me much. I wonder if it's not impolite in comparison with other guests but it did not seem to upset them. I am looking for a book. And suddenly I find myself in front of another bookcase that contains large red leather-bound books. They all have the same title: "YOGA". It's dark. In fact, I'm in a sort of corridor at each end, there is a bookcase and one end of the corridor is rather shrouded in darkness and in the other end is illuminated. I return to the first bookcase.

I am interested in Jung's psychology so in the first bookcase, there must be Jungian books.

And this morning, I had a very short dream where a woman comes up to me to give me a red book.


I think that Mats is right: You have the task to find your own "Red Book". I do not understand why one makes such a noise about the Red Book. Writing it helped C.G. Jung to find his fate; and fate is always personal. One cannot use "cook books" like the Red Book to find one's own way in this life. But it seems that Jungianism regresses into this view ...

We are not "Jünger Jungs" [One can not really translate this German expression; on the one hand "Jünger" means disciple, on the other it is the comparative of "jung" (young); jung, jünger, am jüngsten. Thus, the term means a disciple who believes that he becomes younger when he imitates Jung).

The Red Book is written in a horrible style that lets stand on end my hair on the back. The only really interesting thing is "Septem Sermones ad Mortuos," which - what irony - is not contained in the original Red Book. Since Jung thought that it is - differently from the Red Book - of some interest for the public, he accepted to let it publish in the German original of "Memories, Dreams, Reflections." As I already mentoned in another thread, there is a good interpretation in Stephan Hoeller's "The Gnostic Jung." Gnosticism and Hermeticism are very close, and the "Septem Sermones" talk about the Gnostic/Hermetic idea of the relationship with the deceased. This would be the topic to deal with - and not all this strange things Jung writes about in the Red Book.

[Perhaps the insanitary fascination for "His (always smiling) Holyness" has this unconscious background; that we have the task to create a relationship with the dead (as the Vajrajana has, in fact).]

I think that I have written my "Red Book" with "Return of the World Soul" (and other manuscripts); this helped my individuation process, and it helped me to find my own, personal way in this life. On the other hand, it showed me where my "personal equation" is different from Jung's. Only in this way I was able to find my destiny.

Perhaps your "red book" means something similar.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:17 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 645
Location: Lyon, France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Bernie Quigley wrote:
I've learned that many Canadians and English people dream of "Mrs. Brown" and it may suggest Victoria who was known as "Mrs. Brown." (In English lore the incarnation of the Earth Mother: See Robert Graves, "The White Goddess.") My grandmother came from Manchester and in this and other dreams it suggested that ancient memory persists and when it occurs may or should be considered a guide.


I start to read books by Jean Markale, I dreamed of this author / of celtic books / of a "giant" book about the Grail.

_________________
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ( Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw )


Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:52 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 645
Location: Lyon, France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Remo Roth wrote:
As I already mentoned in another thread, there is a good interpretation in Stephan Hoeller's "The Gnostic Jung." Gnosticism and Hermeticism are very close, and the "Septem Sermones" talk about the Gnostic/Hermetic idea of the relationship with the deceased. This would be the topic to deal with - and not all this strange things Jung writes about in the Red Book.
[/quote]

I ordered it recently and also your book.

"His (always smiling) Holyness" : Personally, I find him friendly and not hypocritical but it's just a feeling.

If I had a dream about a red book, I also had two dreams about the Red Book of Jung. They did not seem negative. I hope I'm not trying to imitate Jung unconsciously ...

_________________
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ( Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw )


Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:14 pm
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
fox wrote:
If I had a dream about a red book, I also had two dreams about the Red Book of Jung. They did not seem negative. I hope I'm not trying to imitate Jung unconsciously ...


No, no, fox, I did not means this. I know that you are on your individual way. You are a "Sucher", seeker, viewfinder. I like all these people.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:04 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Zen and Body-Centered Imagination
Bernie Quigley wrote:
Jung did however, write the introduction to D.T. Suzuki's English language (Grove Press) most influential "Introduction to Zen" which virtually introduced zen Buddhism to the United States in the 1950s. Dr. Suzuki was a Japanese who came to Columbia to teach in the 1950 and was a favorite of the beat culture there. But zen is actually a form of Tao.


Bernie’s comment on Jung's introduction caused me to re-read the latter. The central experience of Zen is Satori, "illumination." The way to this experience are the Koans, the paradox statements that have the goal to let go from intellecutal, logical thinking. If one exercices long enough, "Satori comes upon one unawares, as something utterly unexpected." (CW 11, § 881). It is "a natural occurrence, something ... very simple." (§ 884). It is "a break-through ... into the non-ego-like self." (§ 887).

Zen is based on an "extreme individualism of its methods" (§ 894), and
Quote:
"Since no logical sequence can be demonstrated, it remains to be supposed that the koan method puts not the smallest restraint upon the freedom of the psychic process and that the end-result therefore springs from nothing but the individual disposition of the pupil. The complete destruction of the rational intellect aimed at in the training creates an almost perfect lack of conscious presuppositions. These are excluded as far as possible." (§ 985)


This is why, Jung continues, a "nature-given factor", what he calls the collective unconscious, can enter consciousness. Thus, "the satori experience .. is an answer of Nature." (§ 895). After "the most strenuous demolition of rational understanding, the Zen devotee receives an answer - the only true answer - from Nature itself," the experience of satori (§ 901). Then, however, Jung says that "its use among Western people is very problematical," (§ 902) since "the mental education necessary for Zen is lacking in the West." The common goal of Zen and Western psychotherapy is, however, transformation [of the ego; RFR] (§ 904). And eventually Jung comes to the conclusion that the mentality [but not the method; RFR] of Zen is good for us Westerners, men with "assiduously cultivated credulity ... in the regard to Eastern thought" (§ 907), since "in Zen there are fortunately none of those marvellously incomprehensible words that we find in Indian cults. Neither are we seduced to the "false hope that the spirit can be obtained by just sitting and breathing" (§ 907), as it is in hatha-yoga.

I would say that most of this could also be a good description of Body-Centered Imagination. The differences are as follows: In BCI we do not enter the "unconscious" by paradoxes that kill our intellect, but we shift consciously from the Logos ego to the Eros ego (Jung's "abaissement du niveau mental," which I, however, regard as an alternate consciousness). In this way will and intellect are given up, and the artificial world of words disappears. Then we "float" in what I call the Eros Self. As a further difference, our "satori" is not (or mostly not so much) a deep insight beyond the intellect, but the vision of inner images or the sensing of vegetative sensations. As in Zen, they come "as something utterly unexpected," as what I call the inner (acausal) quantum leap. This experience is always completely overwhelming, and thus changes our emotional state in a positive manner. A further difference is that we do not think that we should "throw away" these images and sensations as senseless, but look at them as the healing factor that comes out of the "wu wei," the active passiveness of the state of the Eros ego.

Further, do you see the difference of Zen to Active Imagination? There is no “confrontation” with the figures of the unconscious as in A.I. One just lets go and tries to overcome the intellect and the thinking function; as one does in BCI.

Remo

PS: In § 899 Jung also attacks Freud's assumption. He writes:
Quote:
"Modern psychotherapy is based on this principle [of the integration od creative contents of the "unconscious"; RFR], in so far as it has been able to free itself from the historical prejudice that the unconscious consists only of infantile and morally inferior contents." [§ 899]

We should, however, also ask ourselves what historical prejudice C.G. Jung created. As you know, I think that his depth psychology is too much based on the verbal confrontation with the unconscious, as in A.I. Here however, Jung shows us that he at least anticipated another form of the relationship with the "unconscious." On the other hand, such contradictions make it extraordinarily difficult to understand what he really means.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:56 am, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:34 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
fox wrote:
"His (always smiling) Holyness" : Personally, I find him friendly and not hypocritical but it's just a feeling.

To me, something is wrong in this smile. It has something arrogant (though it seems that he is not). This is perhaps why I have this feeling that something is wrong.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:02 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Matswin wrote:
I have a Christian bias, so I tend to side with Jung in this issue, but I am not certain. Yoga could mean so many different things. Bhakti yoga, for instance, "is the yoga of devotion. This path is the way of love and devotion. It is the path of self-surrender, of devoting and dedicating all human resources to attaining the ultimate reality."[2]

I think that the problem of Christans is the conscious acceptance of the acausal quantum leap. The latter is based on Hermetic alchemy, and Hermetic alchemy is based on the Pneuma of the Stoa, the Logos spermatikos, the Hermetic world soul. Christianity, with its Neoplatonic tendency and thus with its belief in the Neoplatonic world soul, the causality principle, threw however out this complementary energy principle.

The irony of history is thus that with the discovery of the acausal radioactive decay the Hermetic world soul came back through the back door, and therefore in its core quantum physics is a Christian heresy. This heresy comes also back in the UFO phenomena, in which the magic of the Hermetic world soul is clearly demonstrated. This is also shown in the "completely non-physical behaviour" of negative energy in physics (Manfred Stoeckler), which IMO is nothing else than (psychophysical) matter-psyche.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:06 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 782
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Post Re: "wrong with his smile"
I have heard the Dalai Lama speak and followed him for a long time. There is a issue with him as 14 that he is not so much a spiritual or psychological figure although he is seen to be and is called "your holiness." But his job as 14 and that of the 13th DL is that of warrior and politician. Tibet has been at war with Chinese for almost a 100 years and that is today 14's mission. Also, he accommodates himself with the most egregious pop figures and political people including Jesse Helms and George W. Bush on behalf of Tibet. The Karmapa is second in charge, is really the spiritual figure and indeed, he never smiles. There will in the U.S. Develop I think Tibetanism under the 15th and that will drive people away because it will be Karmapa. The Karmapa visits Woodstock, NY, and will likely move there I speculate. There are other sangas in Woodstock since the concert as people see it as the moment of Aquarius. I don't really see this - Woodstock was profane - a shadow of the Summer of Love which was the original and quite fascinating event in San Francisco. I really have no idea how Americans outside of my own family should turn to - it is all so early. We have pictures of elephants all over my house as my wife dreams of an elephant in front of a church.

Tibetans have an 800 year old prophecy which goes: "When the iron bird flies and the iron horse rolls on wheels the Tibetan people will be scattered throughout the world and the teachings of the Buddha will come to the land of the red-faced people." - said to be the Native Americans.

Was reading this morning of a woman who's grandfather was a rabbi in Poland and her family had been rabbis for 36 generations. Many Americans like myself don't even know their grandfathers names.
Was reading this morning about a woman who's grandfather was a rabbi in Poland who's family had been rabbis there for 36 generations. Many Americans like myself don't even know their grandfathers names.
If you look closely at the teen pop culture "Twilight" it transplants the European Logos/Eros of long tradition; England the path of law and reason, Italy the path of poetry and religion, with Mormons (governance and work ethic) and Native Americans, heart and intuition. this seems an original creation myth but one which leaves us out on the east coast and Europe as well.


Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:49 pm
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Remo Roth wrote:
fox wrote:
"His (always smiling) Holyness" : Personally, I find him friendly and not hypocritical but it's just a feeling.

To me, something is wrong in this smile. It has something arrogant (though it seems that he is not). This is perhaps why I have this feeling that something is wrong.

Remo


Well Remo, are you sure you are not caught into some european-centered prejudice there?

Smiling in asian culture has a very different meaning.

Asians smile for more reasons than Westerners. A smile can mean the person is embarrassed, trying to be helpful, curious, happy or friendly. In the middle of an argument, smiling means that the speaker doesn’t want this to become personal. When all else fails, people smile in the far East . It shows they have no ill intentions.

So I don't take it as just pretending happiness.

As about arrogance , I guess the Dalai Lama as many self conscious people naturally displays a strength that can be perceived as such but is the fruit of the development of a naturally strong personality. I am sure you get what I mean.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:19 am
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Yes, Roger, I think you are right.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:08 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Today, at Valentine's day, I ended the corrections of Return II. I can now send it to the publisher and hope that it will be published in April; on the one hand as ebook, on the other as book on demand.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:09 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:56 pm
Posts: 235
Location: USA
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Quote:
hope that it will be published in April; on the one hand as ebook, on the other as book on demand.

Whoa! good news! Please keep us updated.

Best,


Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:58 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Yes! That's good news!

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:13 pm
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Thanks to all of you!

This is the draft of the back cover text, written today, on Valentine's day, after a spontaneous idea in the half-dreaming state of the morning:

Quote:
The almost 2,000-years-old Axiom of Maria Prophetissa, a feminine alchemist, shows that the energy term must be defined as bipolar. Besides physical energy there must exist a complement. Physics, however, with the postulation of the energy conservation law and the re-definition of negative energy into antimatter, excluded bipolarity. Instead, Wolfgang Pauli defined the anti-neutrino and the spin. Since then we believe in the conservation of physical energy and the bipolarity of matter.
If we reconsider P.A.M. Dirac’s ‘transformation’ of negative energy into antimatter and bear in mind that the former possesses completely ‘nonphysical attributes’ (M. Stoeckler) we understand why Wolfgang Pauli demanded that paraphysics should be included into an extended physics. He was forced to this statement on the one hand because of the psychokinetic Pauli effect, on the other since he realized that besides the causal laws of Newton and Einstein and the quantum physical laws we should look for a ‘third type of law of nature.’
It was a specific archetype, the magician, who compelled Pauli to the revision of his scientific world view. This is why approaching the end of his life he abandoned Neoplatonic science and approached the white magic of the Hermetic alchemical world view. On the other hand he realized that quantum physics could perhaps be closer to black magic than to science.
Though, in his letters Pauli paved the way for the novel world view, he was hindered to find it because of his clinging to the energy conservation law, which is equivalent to the statement of the homogeneity of time. On the other hand he was deeply impressed by the kairos, the qualitative moment in time, in which things like to happen spontaneously. The former defines time as solely quantitatively, the latter enters a qualitative aspect into it.
To re-unify the quantitative and the qualitative aspects of time, energy, space, and momentum, we need a psychophysical theory; a theory that describes the background and the energetic of the unified world behind or even beyond the split into an outer and an inner world, into matter and mind/spirit, into physics and depth psychology. The present book defines a psychophysical theory based on the insights of Wolfgang Pauli and C.G. Jung; on the epistemological insights of quantum physics and the experiences of depth psychology. The theory is confirmed by the interpretation of some of the most important dreams of Pauli’s.


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:17 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
To me Valentine's day has much more to do with the relationship with the unus mundus than with personal love. In 1975, after a lecture of MLvF, I had the following dream that paved me the way to Return of the World Soul. I also describe it in Part II, thus I will post the part related to it:

These images presented to me in the year 1987 were the first hint for my supposition that the symbol of the house in dreams and other products out of the unconscious shows mostly the gross body/vegetative body relationship. This remark leads us back to Pauli’s house dreams. Before we can deal with them I must tell the reader of a further crucial dream, since it contains a parallel motif to one in Pauli’s house dreams that I will present. I had the dream much earlier than the above, on February 14, 1975, on Valentine’s Day, the day of Eros, a circumstance which I later interpreted as being synchronistic.

In the evening of February 13, 1975 I listened to a lecture of Marie-Louise von Franz. There she told us first that C.G. Jung was once asked if there could exist something else behind the Self. He answered that this is possible. However, it is meaningless to talk about it, since people do not even understand what he means by the Self. In the lecture she backed Jung’s statement with an age-old alchemic text: Komarios to Cleopatra. She showed that in this text between the four original steps of the opus, the nigredo, the albedo, the citrinitas and the rubedo there are four further steps as shown below (see figure 6.31).

The fourth of these in-between steps is called “The treatment with the vessel with breasts.” It is an alchemical vessel and similar to the one known as the pelican. The latter looks like this (see second figure below):

Image

It is the retort with the help of which the so-called circular distillation is realized: After pouring the liquid into it, one corks the top. Then one heats the bottom, and in this way the liquid vaporizes. This is the distillation. Since the vessel is closed and possesses the two tubes, the “breasts,” lead back to the bottom, the vapour condenses again and a circulatory process begins. The alchemists believed that as a consequence the liquid becomes more and more refined. This refined liquid was the goal of the opus, corresponding to the philosophical gold or the lapis, the alchemical stone, the first goal of the coniunctio, but also to the red tincture and the quintessence, the second goal.

In modern language we can postulate that with the circular distillation the Hermetic alchemists anticipated the twin process and its quantum leap: The vaporizing corresponds to the first process, the creation of the matter-psyche with potentially altered quality, the condensing to the “re-materialization,” to the creation of the spirit-psyche with realized altered quality as a result of the singular quantum leap. As we realized, this was a complete projection, since in such processes nothing new was created. The physicist would say that an energy transformation had taken place. However, applied to one’s own body in SST, the procedure is in fact acausal and leads into the singular quantum leap with its healing effect.
But let us now return to the opus of Komarius. Figure 6.31 shows how the four further steps are integrated into the original opus. They are called the mummification, the liquifying of the gold, the dichotomy and, as I mentioned above, the treatment with the breast vessel, the pelican. For Marie-Louise von Franz the breast vessel, in which the last step of the extended opus of Komarius happens, was a symbol for the archetype behind Jung’s (Logos) Self. Thus she yet half consciously anticipated the Eros Self .

Image

I was very impressed by the content of this lecture, but of course did not understand anything. I went to bed and in the morning dreamed the following dream:

Quote:
The dream of the wooden sculptures in the adjacent room of C.G. Jung’s and Marie-Louise von Franz’ house

I am in a villa, and around it there is a big and very beautiful park with large trees. It is the house where C.G. Jung and Marie-Louise von Franz live together. There are also other people there, and we sit at a very long rectangular table.

C.G. Jung begins to speak and says: “I’d like now to speak about the one that comes behind the Self …” He explains then what it is, but I forgot what it was.

After this reunion I walk into a “Nebenraum” (the adjoining room), a hall. Its entry is from outside (like the garages). Here at the walls there are wooden sculptures, which I palm. (Association of today: As a sculpturer I always palm sculptures. Only in this way I can really feel their soul – the soul of matter, matter-psyche.)


I did not understand this dream then. I wrote under it: “I’m struggling with the Anima integration, and the unconscious comes with such a dream …” I did not yet know that it was a dream about the anima mundi and that the latter, as we realized above , is something completely other than C.G. Jung’s Anima.
The dream is more or less self-explaining. It is obvious that it talks about what I call today the Eros Self symbolized in the ancient alchemical text Komarios to Kleopatra as the vessel with breasts, which is of course also a symbol of Eros. The villa (a big house) means the extension of Jung’s and von Franz’s theory by including the gross body/vegetative body relationship. The park with the beautiful vegetation means the vegetativum, the vegetative nervous system.

But now the very interesting and crucial detail comes: I abandon the house and enter from outside the adjacent room, a real hall. In the course of time I learned with the help of my own dreams and those of my patients that the adjacent room means the vegetative body. It is the “vegetative space,” the place where vegetative life happens. Thus, the adjacent room is a symbol of the belly brain or gut brain.
In the adjacent room there are wooden sculptures. “Wood” means “vegetative;” thus again the stressing of the VNS. Sculptures are “formed matter,” thus both symbols together mean the vegetative body to be created. Further, sculptures mirror reality and are in this way an image of reality – as is the image out of the belly in BCI/SST.
The end of the dream consists in the palming of the wooden sculptures. Later I realized that I had to integrate my hands into Symptom-Symbol Transformation: The patients lie on the couch – Sigmund Freud in his old-fashioned frock coat comes back – and with the help of my hands I assist them to
come down from the head and enter the belly brain. Then everything else happens itself, spontaneously, acausally.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Thu May 17, 2012 6:21 am, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:59 pm
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Remo,

Quote:
This is the draft of the back cover text, written today, on Valentine's day, after a spontaneous idea in the half-dreaming state of the morning:

Quote:
The almost 2,000-years-old Axiom of Maria Prophetissa, a feminine alchemist, shows that the energy term must be defined as bipolar. Besides physical energy there must exist a complement. Physics, however, with the postulation of the energy conservation law and the re-definition of negative energy into antimatter, excluded bipolarity. Instead, Wolfgang Pauli defined the anti-neutrino and the spin. Since then we believe in the conservation of physical energy and the bipolarity of matter.
If we reconsider P.A.M. Dirac’s ‘transformation’ of negative energy into antimatter and bear in mind that the former possesses completely ‘nonphysical attributes’ (M. Stoeckler) we understand why Wolfgang Pauli demanded that paraphysics should be included into an extended physics. He was forced to this statement on the one hand because of the psychokinetic Pauli effect, on the other since he realized that besides the causal laws of Newton and Einstein and the quantum physical laws we should look for a ‘third type of law of nature.’
It was a specific archetype, the magician, who compelled Pauli to the revision of his scientific world view. This is why approaching the end of his life he abandoned Neoplatonic science and approached the white magic of the Hermetic alchemical world view. On the other hand he realized that quantum physics could perhaps be closer to black magic than to science.
Though, in his letters Pauli paved the way for the novel world view, he was hindered to find it because of his clinging to the energy conservation law, which is equivalent to the statement of the homogeneity of time. On the other hand he was deeply impressed by the kairos, the qualitative moment in time, in which things like to happen spontaneously. The former defines time as solely quantitatively, the latter enters a qualitative aspect into it.
To re-unify the quantitative and the qualitative aspects of time, energy, space, and momentum, we need a psychophysical theory; a theory that describes the background and the energetic of the unified world behind or even beyond the split into an outer and an inner world, into matter and mind/spirit, into physics and depth psychology. The present book defines a psychophysical theory based on the insights of Wolfgang Pauli and C.G. Jung; on the epistemological insights of quantum physics and the experiences of depth psychology. The theory is confirmed by the interpretation of some of the most important dreams of Pauli’s.


to me this is very good. It immediately reminded me of the dream I posted in a contribution to 2012. (http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?p=13964#p13964)

Quote:
I am in a temple of ancient times (not Christian). It can be anytime (past present future)
I am the high priest. Talking to the assembly I say that the world (humankind) has become mad. Time has come to release the Energy.
I am holding an object made according to a double motif, such as a pair of horns tied together or anything representing that united duality.
When I say these words the object transforms itself into a single ‘rod’ and Energy flows in and out of it. (I do not do it: it happens).
I can feel the numen but it’s the first time ever that I don’t feel awe in such circumstances. The energy is absolutely constructive, and blissful.



Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:37 pm
Profile Personal album
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Quote:
Later I realized that I had to integrate my hands into Symptom-Symbol Transformation: The patients lie on the couch – Sigmund Freud in his old-fashioned frock coat comes back – and with the help of my hands I assist them to come down from the head and enter the belly brain. Then everything else happens itself, spontaneously, acausally.


Though the most part of my practice is distant healing, it appears my hands do the same as yours, and then everything else happens by itself.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:41 pm
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Roger,

Roger Faglin wrote:
It immediately reminded me of the dream I posted in a contribution to 2012. (http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?p=13964#p13964)


In Part II I am dealing a lot with the transformation of oscillation, black and white (or yellow) stripes (as on the body of wasps; Pauli's wasp phobia) into (onesided) rotation, of which Pauli dreamed so much. It seems to be the problem's solution. "Oscillation" seems to symbolize the potential incarnation. As MLvF wrote somewhere, trembling means an unredeemed state (as for example shown as an attribute of witches). In your dream the opposites are tied together, a "united duality." This means, IMO, the acceptance of the possibility of twin processes, in which first spirit-psyche (physical energy and/or psychic energy) transforms into matter-psyche (the potentiality of incarnation), and, by mere observation, the latter transforms back into spirit-psyche with increased order. The latter overcomes the energy conservation law in the way that energy of higher quality is created (what is not possible in the Neoplatonic = scientific worldview). This process means incarnation of "new space-time," and it seems that it is represented by the rod. With the rod I was reminded of Nicholas von Flue's wheel image.

Image

I once have written about it. See http://paulijungunusmundus.eu/rfr/radbilde.htm#4 . To me the interesting aspect of the wheel image is the fact that it stands still, but energy flows from the body (the outer circle of the outer double circle) to the heart (the double circle in the center) and then back to the outer circle (the inner of the double circle), which symbolizes the subtle body or Paracelsus' astral body (diamond body of Daoism).

We can understand this process on the level of the body on which it means (spontaneous; acausal) cure of disease; on the level of the macrocosm it could mean the cure of the world from its madness.

Let's hope that this is possible by the deeply introverted work of BCI.

Remo

PS: However, neither quantum physics nor C.G. Jung seem to understand the process. Perhaps they learn it in the Beyond with the help of our work.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:31 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Roger,

With the above back cover text I tried exactly to show how we can overcome this limitation of physics as well as of Jung's psychology and can begin a 'melding' with the unus mundus respectively with the psychophysical reality (W. Pauli)

Your dream of the two spiders viewtopic.php?f=17&t=30&p=72#p72 (with which, as much as I remember, we re-opened the UM forum in 2005) symbolizes this process.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:41 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Here the preface of Part II:


Preface

C.G. Jung was conscious of the fact that his depth psychological theory cannot be the definite answer. Already in 1948, in the Foreword to Esther Harding’s book Psychic Energy, Its Source and Its Transformation he writes:

Quote:
“The pioneer in a new field rarely has the good fortune to be able to draw valid conclusions from his total experience. The efforts and exertions, the doubts and uncertainties of his voyage of discovery have penetrated his marrow too deeply to allow him the perspective and clarity which are necessary for a comprehensive presentation. Those of the second generation, who base their work on the groping attempts, the chance hits, the circuitous approaches, the half truths and mistakes of the pioneer, are less burdened and can take more direct roads, envisage farther goals. They are able to cast off many doubts and hesitations, concentrate on essentials, and, in this way, map out a simpler and clearer picture of the newly discovered territory. This simplification and clarification redound to the benefit of those of the third generation, who are thus equipped from the outset with an over-all chart. With this chart they are enabled to formulate new problems and mark out the boundary lines more sharply than ever before.”

In relation to the psychophysical problem in particular, Jung realized the incompleteness of his theory. As he writes in a letter dated March 7, 1953 to Wolfgang Pauli, he was especially convinced that he had not solved the problem of the so-called coniunctio :

Quote:
“The problem of the coniunctio must be kept for the future; it is more than I can cope with, and my heart reacts if I exert myself too much along these lines. My essay on the ‘Der Geist der Psychologie’ [‘On the Nature of the Psyche’ ] of 1946 resulted in a serious attack of tachycardia, and synchronicity brought on the rest.”

As we have seen in Part I of Return of the World Soul , Wolfgang Pauli, the quantum physicist and Nobel laureate who had an intense oral and written dispute with the depth psychologist, was also convinced that Jung’s quaternity, postulated as the structure of the (Logos-)Self and center of the collective unconscious, did not solve the problem of the coniunctio. He summarizes his criticism in the following statement that had occupied us very intensely in Part I :

Quote:
“As long as quaternities are kept ‘up in the heaven’ at a great dis¬tance from people ... no fish will be caught, the hierosgamos [equivalent to coniunctio; RFR] is absent, and the psychophysical problem remains unsolved.” [Emphasis mine]

The reader may remember that the background of this statement was Pauli’s insight that alchemy was split into two: on the one hand Neoplatonic alchemy with its tendency to spiritualize matter and let it ascend into Heaven; shared with Jung’s quaternity. On the other hand Hermetic alchemy, with its representants Paracelsus, Michael Meier, Gerhard Dorn (Dorneus) and Robert Fludd, the physicians, who defined an intermediate world to which the spirit had to descend and thus matter was able to ascend to it. This intermediate world, represented by the Seal of Solomon or Star of David, they called the lapis, the stone, the alchemic gold. Out of it, in the process that Gerhard Dorn called the unio corporalis and other alchemists the coniunctio, the final result was distilled, the red tincture or quintessence. Thus, only Hermetic alchemy was, at least in symbolical terms, able to find a unification of matter and spirit.

In his last collaboration with his friend Werner Heisenberg in the years 1957 and 1958 Pauli also tried to find a unification; a unification on the physical level, of Einstein’s General Relativity Theory and quantum mechanics , the so-called world formula. Then, however, he realized that this was not possible, and he distanced himself from their joint theory . With the help of his apt wit he formulated the problem in a letter to his colleague George Gamow as follows :


Image

Since the unsuccessful attempt of Heisenberg and Pauli several other efforts had been made to formulate such TOEs, Theories of Everything, for example the string and the superstring theory. In my opinion, they will fail since they do not integrate the psychophysical level of reality, and thus neither paraphysics, as Pauli demanded . As we will see in section 6.1.1 my hypothesis consists in the inclusion of a new interpretation of the alchemical Axiom of Maria Prophetissa, a feminine alchemist of the 2nd or 3rd century. It shows that we have to look for another, hitherto unknown form of energy – in Pauli’s “neutral language” I call it matter-psyche; in contrast to outer spirit-psyche (physical energy) and inner spirit-psyche (Jung’s objective psychic energy). Further, we have to include Pauli’s demand of “a third type of law of nature” besides the causal laws of Newton and Einstein on the one hand, and the quantum physical laws on the other. My book tries to formulate such a psychophysical theory and its energetic processes. In this way I think that I have fulfilled Pauli’s demand of finding “something entirely new, in other words something very ‘crazy’” .

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:30 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 126 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.