UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:32 am



 [ 126 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 Discussion of Return of the World Soul 
Author Message
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Gwynne asked me to open a new thread for the discussion of my book. I am very interested in discussing it with you.

Love to all

Remo

PS: Yesterday I have re-read Chapter 3 and "the other Remo" was fascinated. It is in fact revolutionary - goes far beyond C.G. Jung's depth psychology. Praising onself stinks, we say in German - but it was in fact "the other Remo" who said this. I stand beside him and am very surprised.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:08 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Antonio Texas
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Remo Roth wrote:
Gwynne asked me to open a new thread for the discussion of my book. I am very interested in discussing it with you.

Love to all

Remo

PS: Yesterday I have re-read Chapter 3 and "the other Remo" was fascinated. It is in fact revolutionary - goes far beyond C.G. Jung's depth psychology. Praising onself stinks, we say in German - but it was in fact "the other Remo" who said this. I stand beside him and am very surprised.



Actually you are amazing in that you can be the 'observer' of yourself having these conversations....As I wrote to you privately, I dreamed parts of the book before I started reading it, especially the book cover. The quaternity and the Seal of Solomon are a constant in my dream and I am always in the midst of trying to work with the synchronism of my work in 3D as it relates to my work in my 'soul world' of dreams....

I could take bit by bit here Remo...however I really want to try to make peace between Pauli's and Jung's idea of 'anima' and their connection to the other world...I had read Pauli's letters and am now really beginning to understand....he was so important in the development of the synchronous connection...especially in numbers...

more later...

A big hug to you my friend.

_________________
"The human mind, in its never-ending changes, is like the flowing water of a river or the burning flame of a candle; like an ape, it is forever jumping about not ceasing for a moment." The Teaching of Buddha


Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:58 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
GwynneMayer wrote:
Actually you are amazing in that you can be the 'observer' of yourself having these conversations....


Yes, Gwynne, it is in fact possible to stand idly by as an 'observer' of oneself. Also Jung talks about this. One can somehow be a little apart, and have a look at this strange being.

It is a strange experience, but in this way one becomes more objective about oneself.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:04 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Antonio Texas
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
The book is quite the 'tome' and is full of chapters or sections that you could probably write a book on in each section....trying to compile these thoughts...especially the connection between Pauli, Kepler, Fludd and application to Jung is a monstrous undertaking and I am trying to simplify it in my meditations so I can bring it to 'gwynology'...to put it together for a simpler understanding since my audience understands very little of Jung's terminology, least of all a physicist...or trying to explain platonic thought in this third dimension...I feel as if I am back at Plato's cave trying to explain the shadow...yuk....again congratulations on putting this all together.

Gwynne

_________________
"The human mind, in its never-ending changes, is like the flowing water of a river or the burning flame of a candle; like an ape, it is forever jumping about not ceasing for a moment." The Teaching of Buddha


Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:21 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Pauli: Quantum physics is a black mass
There are not too many people who already possess the book since the American printer is slow. I hope however that it will be printed soon.

I'd like to begin with the Preface:

I begin the book with the provocative sentence: "In a letter ... the physicist and Nobel laureate Wolfgang Pauli anticipated that quantum physics could be a black mass." This means obviously that Pauli began to realize that beta radioactivity could be more than what physics thinks of it. In 1928 P.A.M. Dirac "transformed" negative energy in a very metaphysical way -- we talked about this in the UM forum -- into antimatter and shortly later (1930) Pauli "invented" the antineutrino (which is in fact thought to be antimatter). Pauli invented the antineutrino to defend the so called energy conservation law which to the great surprise of the physicists was violated in the so called beta decay, one aspect of the radioactive decay. Since according to Einstein matter and energy are equivalent, one can define a new particle, the antineutrino, as follows:

A neutron decays in a proton and an electron and the antineutrino. In this way, as an effect of the invention of a third particle, the energy before and after the decay is the same. However, without the antineutrino the energy conservation law would be violated.

However, as I show in the second part of the book (not yet published), when we include Hermetic alchemy into an extended physics, we must return to negative energy instead of antimatter. and negative energy is the magic energy of the unus mundus. Thus, instead of Paulis invention we can write:

A neutron decays in a proton, an electron and magic energy of the unus mundus.

This is the main hypothesis of the book.

Since Pauli invented the antineutrino and in this way excluded magics from physics, in his dreams a powerful figure -- in fact the master of the unus mundus -- appeared: the magician (also called the master or stranger). The magician criticized Pauli very, very heavyly, as he writes for example in letter [44] from Nov 1950 (in Atom and Archetype) to Emma Jung. He said to him that he was very stupid and had only seen one little part of the real world. In my interpretation this means that the magician criticized the invention of the antineutrino as a antimatter particle, since exactly because of this invention magic was excluded from physics.

Thus, we have to go back to the original definition, and replace the antineutrino by negative energy, which is magic energy. Pauli anticipated such a change, since he said that we have to include parapsychology [and thus paraphysics] into an extended physics.

All this is not yet in the first part of the book (or only touched a little), but it seems to be important for the understanding of what we discuss here.

As I said before, Pauli was half conscious of the fact that the antineutrino could be something completely else than what physics thinks. This is why he began to write about Schopenhauer's idea of the 'nexus metayphysicus' ( I would call it the 'nexus psychophysicus') that can have 'a direct effect on the things per se, thus of the inside onto nature.' [See page 2 of Return)

Since such phenomena are beyond space and time (i.e. happen in the unus mundus), this means that there are effects that are magical: Out of one single human a transformation can begin that changes the whole world when this change has been observed in one's inside. An example of this is my experience during Chernobyl: In a great fear I did some BCIs and then the UFOs came and reduced the radiation to one fourth. Only in this way no nuclear explosion took part in the nuclear plant (there was however a thermal explosion that liberated much radioactive material). It seems that with such a nuclear explosion of the reactor most of Europe had disappeared (and I could not write this post anymore ...).

Also the Pauli effect, a psychokinetic magical effect, belongs to this magical process, but Pauli was not yet conscious about it. This was the case since he was not able to see that in the radioactive beta decay physical energy transforms into magical energy (of the unus mundus) and back into physical energy with higher order (or higher negentropy). Negative or magic energy does not obey to physical laws, and thus phenomena like the Pauli effect, but also UFO encounter and abduction are possible.

Remo

PS: Magical energy has a different quality compared with physical energy. Physics, however, cannot measure qualities, thus it believes that the above definition of the antineutrino in the radioactive beta decay is correct.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:33 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:30 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2871
Images: 5
Location: Weed, California
Post Effects of Magical Energy
Quote:
Remo wrote in Pauli: Quantum physics is a black mass - Also the Pauli effect, a psychokinetic magical effect, belongs to this magical process, but Pauli was not yet conscious about it. This was the case since he was not able to see that in the radioactive beta decay physical energy transforms into magical energy (of the unus mundus) and back into physical energy with higher order (or higher negentropy). Negative or magic energy does not obey to physical laws, and thus phenomena like the Pauli effect, but also UFO encounter and abduction are possible.

It seems to me, given the destructive psychokinetic magical effects that haunted Pauli, that a more precise characterization in your above quote would be to add the following word I have highlighted in blue font. As I recall, I believe you write it like this before somewhere. Like this, if the process of observation is unconscious - destructive effects enter spacetime. Further, could we conclude that Bad Luck haunts the use of nuclear energy as seen in the ever worsening disasters such as in 3MileIsland, Chernobyl, and now Fukushima. Are these examples of an unconscious process in the use of magical energy?

Quote:
Also the Pauli effect, a psychokinetic magical effect, belongs to this magical process, but Pauli was not yet conscious about it. This was the case since he was not able to see that in the radioactive beta decay physical energy transforms into magical energy (of the unus mundus) and back into physical energy with potential higher order (or higher negentropy). Negative or magic energy does not obey to physical laws, and thus phenomena like the Pauli effect, but also UFO encounter and abduction are possible.

Gregory

P.S. I found where you wrote this more accurately,

Quote:
On 13 April 2006 Remo wrote in Radioactivity and Nonlocality, UFOs and "ETs"

On the quantum physical level Beta radioactivity is the creation of an antineutrino. On a psychophysical level I interpret it not as a particle of antimatter, but as what I call matter-psyche (negative energy). Matter-psyche is the potential energy of the unus mundus, containing a [only potential] higher negentropy. By the observation of such "singular acausal beta decays" on the psychophysical level we observe the transformation of matter-psyche into new spirit-psyche and incarnate like this the spirit-psyche containing higher negentropy (ie higher life).


Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:18 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Effects of Magical Energy
Gregory Sova wrote:
Quote:
Remo wrote in Pauli: Quantum physics is a black mass - Also the Pauli effect, a psychokinetic magical effect, belongs to this magical process, but Pauli was not yet conscious about it. This was the case since he was not able to see that in the radioactive beta decay physical energy transforms into magical energy (of the unus mundus) and back into physical energy with higher order (or higher negentropy). Negative or magic energy does not obey to physical laws, and thus phenomena like the Pauli effect, but also UFO encounter and abduction are possible.


It seems to me, given the destructive psychokinetic magical effects that haunted Pauli, that a more precise characterization in your above quote would be to add the following word I have highlighted in blue font. As I recall, I believe you write it like this before somewhere. Like this, if the process of observation is unconscious - destructive effects enter spacetime. Further, could we conclude that Bad Luck haunts the use of nuclear energy as seen in the ever worsening disasters such as in 3MileIsland, Chernobyl, and now Fukushima. Are these examples of an unconscious process in the use of magical energy?


Yes, I should differenciate the whole a little. However, the resulting energy is real physical energy -- for example the Princeton accelerator began to burn, and up until today no one knows a physical reason for this. The resulting physical energy is not potential anymore, it is realized. But the interstage is magical (magical energy of the unus mundus). I call this the twin process:

{Physical energy transforms into magical energy with potentially higher order} and {Magical energy with potentially higher order transforms back into physical energy with realized higher order or higher negentropy}

"Higher" does however not mean that it is constructive. It only means that it is not explainable with the help of physical laws. [Pauli talked of a "third type of natural law that have to be found, besids the causal physical laws of Newton/Einstein and the statistical causal quantum physical laws.] The process is psychokinetic, and psychokinesis is not explainable with the help of physics. This is why physicists avoid psychokinesis like the plague (in fact it is a plague).

Only when we live such processes consciously, as for example in BCI, the higher order becomes also constructive. Thus we can say that the result of BCI is a constructive inner Pauli process.

In UFO encounter and abduction people are unconscious about what happens to them. Thus, they experience them in a destructive way. When, however, they accept that such processes are magical, such phenomena can become constructive.

As much as I remember there was a very instructive case: Two women experienced a UFO encounter together. One of them laughed about such silly things, the other was deeply impressed. She believed in the reality of the magical process.

The former got sick, the latter was healed from a disease she suffered ...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:48 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Antonio Texas
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Remo:
As I said before, Pauli was half conscious of the fact that the antineutrino could be something completely else than what physics thinks. This is why he began to write about Schopenhauer's idea of the 'nexus metayphysicus' ( I would call it the 'nexus psychophysicus') that can have ' a direct effect on the things per se, thus of the inside onto nature.' [See page 2 of Return)

Since such phenomena are beyond space and time (i.e. happen in the unus mundus), this means that there are effects that are magic: Out of one single human a transformation can begin that changes the whole world when this change has been observed in one's inside. An example of this is my experience during Chernobyl: In a great fear I did some BCIs and then the UFOs came and reduced the radiation to one fourth. Only in this way no nuclear explosion took part in the nuclear plant (there was however a thermic explosion that liberated much radioactive material). It seems that with such a nuclear explosion of the reactor most of Europe had disappeared (and I could not write this post anymore ...).


I am not going to 'even' pretend that I understand the depth of what you are saying...however as I translate it into what I can understand, I see the magic/negative material as the feminine..in the psyche...and her involvement into nature to ameliorate any damages that occur... I wonder how all the UFO cleaned up the massive damage to the nuclear system in Japan most recently....

Coming from my feminie brain which is animus driven :lol: I see that Pauli tried constantly to bring his feminine synergy back to the empiricist discussion on physics and relate it back to Keppler and Fludd...that must have irritated Jung in every way...as all things are in the 'soup' alchemically mixing which does away with a scientific approach with accurate results....I do agree however that the importance of numbers is huge...coming from the Kabala, the ancient's contribution to the 'all religion' aspects....While reading the World Soul, I am jumping in my brain all over the place, like having a seizure....I rush to Jung's quotes to find out how he viewed what was being said...so I will know how I am thinking...gets me grounded. My very favorite parts of the book were in my dream the night before I got the book....beginning with 4.3 regarding Robert Fludd's Chymical Wedding.... I also wanted to know if the Seal of Solomon is embedded in the Merkaba as well?

_________________
"The human mind, in its never-ending changes, is like the flowing water of a river or the burning flame of a candle; like an ape, it is forever jumping about not ceasing for a moment." The Teaching of Buddha


Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:04 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2871
Images: 5
Location: Weed, California
Post Higher
Remo,

Hope you don’t mind if I give some more feedback on your verbal formulation – in the interest of seeing if your intent can be better communicated. Maybe forum English majors have some ideas.

Remo wrote in Re: Effects of Magical Energy,

Quote:
{Physical energy transforms into magical energy with potentially higher order} and {Magical energy with potentially higher order transforms back into physical energy with realized higher order or higher negentropy}

The disconnect for me in this verbal formulation you have presented above is the unqualified use of the word HIGHER in the latter part. Thus, it seems where the word HIGHER has not been modified by the adjective “potential” one might use a parentheses on HIGHER to warn the reader that a poetic license is now being used regarding the normal meaning of the word in this instance. Thus if I read the following I would be put on notice that something has happened to the normal meaning of HIGHER.

Quote:
{Physical energy transforms into magical energy with potentially higher order} and {Magical energy with potentially higher order transforms back into physical energy with realized “higher” order or “higher” negentropy}

Like this one can say this transformed magical physical energy can come back into spacetime as constructive or destructive.

Gregory

Quote:
Magic - Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.


Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:45 pm
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Gregory,

I do not exactly understand your argument.

"Higher" does not mean "better". It was exactly Pauli who realized that in Hermetic alchemy "low", "dark" is of equivalent value to "high", "bright", etc. Only Neoplatonism and the Christian culture believe that "high" always means "good" and "low" always "bad".

Is this the problem?

Remo

PS: Quotes of Pauli about this problem one finds on p. 71

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:17 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
I remember a dream Clarice told us at the very beginning of the UM forum. It was about the light of darkness. In the deceased jungpage forum she was criticized that she does not see her shadow. Completely Neoplatonic criticism, since these Jungians were not able to see that darkness can be positive, creative.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:23 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2871
Images: 5
Location: Weed, California
Post The Problem
Quote:
Remo wrote: "Higher" does not mean "better". It was exactly Pauli who realized that in Hermetic alchemy "low", "dark" is of equivalent value to "high", "bright", etc. Only Neoplatonism and the Christian culture believe that "high" always means "good" and "low" always "bad".

Is this the problem?

It is exactly your reading audience problem. Just trying to help the communication of your ideas.

I guess one could write higher to convey it is a union of opposites or destructive-constructive; or constructive-destructive. Otherwise it is a mine field of misunderstanding to not qualify higher in this instance. I know you think Hermetically but your audience does not. This is the problem.

Gregory


Last edited by Gregory Sova on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:37 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post The Light of Nature
I am currently reading 'Return of the World Soul'. I think this image fits the thesis of the book rather well:
Attachment:
roberts-alchemist-400.jpg
roberts-alchemist-400.jpg [ 57.25 KiB | Viewed 4557 times ]
The Anima Mundi, Guiding Hermits, Museum Hermeticum, 1625

http://pre-gebelin.blogspot.com/2009/01 ... emist.html

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:52 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
I have read that in certain ancient temples (I think Greek), it was customary to perform appropriate rituals, and then as soon as one had emerged from the temple, to take the first words one heard as the will of the god, and to act upon it, no matter what. Could this in any sense be taken as an act of the Eros ego? One may assume that the mindset of those involved was such that to disobey would be a profound violation of one's own being. An alternative might be to set one's course of action to depend upon the throw of a dice, with six alternatives predefined (and really mean it). In both cases, there would be in some sense a conversion from potential to actual.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:28 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Divination
It hadn't struck me that I had introduced the topic of divination.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:27 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: The Light of Nature
Patrick Booker wrote:
I am currently reading 'Return of the World Soul'. I think this image fits the thesis of the book rather well:
Attachment:
roberts-alchemist-400.jpg
The Anima Mundi, Guiding Hermits, Museum Hermeticum, 1625


Thank you, Patrick. Yes, the Hermit could be the best symbol for this process. In fact, I became very lonely in following it. It seems that Jung's disciples cannot or are not willing to understand my argument. Perhaps since they all are Neoplatonists.

Remo

PS: I hope that you also give some comments on the book.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:28 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: The Problem
Gregory Sova wrote:
It is exactly your reading audience problem. Just trying to help the communication of your ideas.

I guess one could write higher to convey it is a union of opposites or destructive-constructive; or constructive-destructive. Otherwise it is a mine field of misunderstanding to not qualify higher in this instance. I know you think Hermetically but your audience does not. This is the problem.


Perhaps I should say "altered". This was my original formulation. It sound more neutral than "higher".

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:40 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
On the background of my personal experiences it was a great satisfaction to me when I read in 1996 (in Appendix 9 of Atom and Archetype) that already Pauli had criticized the Zurich Jung Institute; and he did it in a very caustic way! I am talking about this criticism in section 3.1. I myself experienced this "mental incest" and first I could not believe that an institute that possesses the name of the great depth psychologist can be so unscientific. When I began my studies at the institute, I already knew that Jung had the claim that his depth psychology was scientific. But how, for example, dreams were interpreted was everything else than scientific.

This way of dream "interpretation" seems to be usual today. One fantasizes around the dreams, the interpreter brings in own associations and in this way projects his own problems into the dreamer and their dreams. If the interpreter is a therapist, this is even a very dangerous way of dealing with dreams, since one rapes the dreamer.

But all this seems to be usual - a really horrible idea to me.

I then had to ask myself why all this happened (and still happens). In section 3.2 I show that the root of all this lies in Jung himself. It is the continuation of a criticism of his quaternity concept that already Pauli began. He talks about the "esoteric, special existence" of Jung's depth psychology, of an "illegitimate child" and of "quaternities kept up in heaven" that cannot be used to solve the psychophysical problem.

It was the first time that I read something like a criticism of Jung's quaternity. The quaternity is not symmetric, and the anima is only one-dimensional. This had disturbed me from the beginning on. Why are there three "masculine gods" and only a one-dimensional "goddess"? Only three-dimensionality means - and I quote C.G. Jung - realization in our world of three dimensions. One-dimensionality is something much too intellectual.

I then realized that also Jung's "playmates", especially Maria Moltzer, who, according to Shamdasani, was the model for the anima, were such dry, nun-like and completely intellectual women.

Image
Also the women that I met at the Zurich institute were like this. Not one that I had had the feeling to have sex with her (except Marie-Louise von Franz). And some of them were even psychotic or at least borderline (as was perhaps Toni Wolff).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:11 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Thus, the book is also a criticism of the anima concept. I show in section 5.2.1.6 that Jung mixed up the anima and the anima mundi:

Image

In Jung's definition the anima (or psyche) is the leader to the unconscious, as was Maria Moltzer to Jung. It was she who came from his inside and said that what he does was "art" (and not science). This way he discovered a feminine figure in himself that talked like this and he became able to differentiate the inner figure from Moltzer.

On the other hand, however, he writes that the anima (or psyche) is "the ligamentum corporis et spiritus", the ligament between matter and spirit. This is obivously the anima mundi.

C.G. Jung was not able to solve this conflict between the two "animae". This is why his writings are so inconsistent and contradictory - as is the whole Jungianism of today.

He was not yet able to realize that there is also another symbol of the Self, besides his intellectual quaternity -- the Seal of Solomon, the background of Hermetic alchemy.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:30 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
The Seal of Solomon is symmetric. Besides the masculine "trinity" it also contains the feminine "trinity". This was a fact Pauli was fascinated of. I describe all this in Chapter 4. He realized that there must also be a "trinity" to below. This is why he was so fascinated of Robert Fludd, the antagonist of Johannes Kepler. This is why he wrote his so-called "Kepler essay", which is, however, also a contestation with Robert Fludd. Here the Seal plays a very important role. It is the background of the Hermetic alchemical opus, and it is not placed in the heavens as is Jung's quaternity, but in an intermediate world between matter and spirit. It is the subtle world of Paracelsus' Astral Body (or subtle body). It is this world that the Hermetic alchemist must first create (in meditation), and out of it the so-called infans solaris is born. Despite its name it does not belong to the sun, but to this intermediate world. Synonymous to it are the quintessence and the -- red tincture. This is why Roth (= red) had to write all this :D :D :D

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:54 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
The importance of the Seal of Solomon in Hermetic alchemy is also the reason why I decided to place the anahata, the heart chakra on the cover. It shows that "my" depth psychology has much more to do with the heart (and the gut brain) than with the brain, much more with the Eros than with the Logos. It is this "fluid principle" that was constellated in Pauli, but he neither was able to reach this flow though he thought that the Fludd/flood synchronicity at the inauguration ceremony of the Zurich institute in 1948 had this meaning -- "I should 'pour out water inside'".

Image

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:17 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Here it seems to me that it is important to stress that the Seal is not originally Jewish. This is not my postulate, but Gershom Scholem's. I quote his standpoint as a motto to Chapter 5:

Quote:
"Occasionally [the Seal of Solomon] appears on Jewish artifacts, such as lamps and seals, but without having any special and recognizable significance … Theories interpreting it as a planetary sign of Saturn and connecting it with the holy stone in the pre-Davidic sanctuary in Jerusalem are purely speculative. Neither in the magical papyri nor in the oldest sources of Jewish magic does the hexagram appear, but it began to figure as a magical sign from the early Middle Ages. Among Jewish emblems from Hellenistic times … both hexagram and pentagram are missing." [Scholem, G.: Kabbalah, Keter Publishing House, Jerusalem, 1994, p. 362]

"The use of the hexagram as an alchemical symbol denoting the harmony between the antagonistic elements of water and fire became current in the later 17th century, but this had no influence in Jewish circles. Many alchemists, too, began calling it the 'Shield of David' (traceable since 1724). But another symbolism sprang up in Kabbalistic circles, where the 'Shield of David’ became the 'Shield of the son of David,’ the Messiah. Whether this usage was current in Orthodox circles too is not certain, though not impossible.“ [Kabbalah, p. 367]


However, the Seal is present in the mysticism of many religions, as for example in Hindu and Buddhist tantrism, the anahata. But also the "Radbild" the wheel image of Nicholas von Flue is an example. Also the Sufis have the Seal, and it is also contained in Jewish mysticism, in the Sephiroth tree. It entered Judaism relatively late, with the development of the Cabbalah.

Thus, it is very odd that Israel took it for their flag. Could it be that Israel will once be defeated by the magical Seal? Who knows.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:25 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2871
Images: 5
Location: Weed, California
Post Altered
Remo wrote:
Perhaps I should say "altered". This was my original formulation. It sounds more neutral than "higher".

Yes, that would be an excellent choice.

Was this formulation easier to write in German than in English?

Thanks,

Gregory


Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:47 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
I was only able to write this book after many disappointments in relationships with women. This is why I dedicate the book to them:

Quote:
Dedicated to all these women, especially to Doris, Irene, Leonie, Alison, Esther, Regina, Gertrud, Brigitte, Maria and Ivana, who compelled me to withdraw the projection of the divine world soul (anima mundi) into them.


As time drew on I realized that I had not projected Jung's anima into many women, but the anima mundi. This is even a heavier projection than the one of the anima. Of course, since nobody had had this experience of withdrawing the projection of the anima mundi yet, no one could help me in following this process. This is why I "needed" many women and being wounded many times to realize this projection. But I have overcome this. And the result is this book, which IMO clarifies very much of C.G. Jung's depth psychology. Thus it was the Eros and conscious suffering from it that helped me to "comb" the inconsistencies of Jung.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:52 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:32 am
Posts: 827
Images: 1
Location: Virginia, USA
Post Re: The Problem of "to be or not to be"
Remo Roth wrote:
Gregory Sova wrote:
It is exactly your reading audience problem. Just trying to help the communication of your ideas.

I guess one could write higher to convey it is a union of opposites or destructive-constructive; or constructive-destructive. Otherwise it is a mine field of misunderstanding to not qualify higher in this instance. I know you think Hermetically but your audience does not. This is the problem.


Perhaps I should say "altered". This was my original formulation. It sound more neutral than "higher".

Remo

Maybe "deeper", "inner", "centered", or just simple
"being" may express the altered perspective.



Image


Suzanne & Companion


Note: Just realized that Jung said in Memories, Dreams, Reflections (1963):
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence
is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being."
Searched for Jung light in mere being 6:18am

_________________
"Only if a man dares to entrust himself again to the depth of his origin can he reach the height for which he was destined." Karlfried Graf Durckheim


Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:01 am
Profile Personal album
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
When is the second volume to be published, Remo? My understanding is that this will include examples of the interior process, which may bring the concepts to life for readers.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:37 pm
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Patrick Booker wrote:
When is the second volume to be published, Remo? My understanding is that this will include examples of the interior process, which may bring the concepts to life for readers.

Patrick


I hope that it will be published in 2012. Besides my theory the book also contains examples of BCI and SST. One is of a woman, in fact my first "case", that was healed from a multiple sclerosis. The second is an example of me, in which I was in the Beyond and visited Anubis. I think I already talked about this imagination in the UM forum.

Yes, see thread viewtopic.php?f=13&t=683&p=5483&hilit=Anubis#p5483

As much as I know, the second part will be published as ebook. This has the advantage that it does not need an index. Creating an index costs very much.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:33 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Further, I just prepare a lecture about the subject that I will give on Dec, 8 in Basle, http://www.psychovision.ch/?p=1103 . It is in German, but I hope that I can translate it once into English and prepare an article.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:36 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
There are certain experiences involving sleep paralysis - traditionally they may involve a hag sitting upon one's chest, and also can be UFO-related. In my case, this type of experience often involves extreme panic, with varying hypnopompic imagery. I wonder whether such experiences are more likely to lead to an inner quantum leap.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:57 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: The Problem
Remo Roth wrote:
Gregory Sova wrote:
It is exactly your reading audience problem. Just trying to help the communication of your ideas.

I guess one could write higher to convey it is a union of opposites or destructive-constructive; or constructive-destructive. Otherwise it is a mine field of misunderstanding to not qualify higher in this instance. I know you think Hermetically but your audience does not. This is the problem.


Perhaps I should say "altered". This was my original formulation. It sound more neutral than "higher".

Remo


Yes I think Gregory is right. The problem with a book like The Return... is that a wider public is certainly not able to grasp spontaneously such subtleties that are nonetheless fundamental.

Any survey about the connotation of the comparative 'higher' will reveal a strong positive association. By the way it is a typical Logos problem. As you noticed in the hardness of writing this book, words are not meant to express the worldview we try to incarnate here.

In fact some langages woud be fitter than English that are still firmly rooted in a pre-christian shamanic culture. However they are not too commonly used :lol:

'Altered' is neutral, but as such does not convey the regressive-constructive nature of the tranformed energy. I guess the best way would be to keep the couple regressive-contructive as a qualifier.

Not the best way to lighten the sentence but then...

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:59 pm
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Patrick Booker wrote:
There are certain experiences involving sleep paralysis - traditionally they may involve a hag sitting upon one's chest, and also can be UFO-related. In my case, this type of experience often involves extreme panic, with varying hypnopompic imagery. I wonder whether such experiences are more likely to lead to an inner quantum leap.

Patrick


Patrick,

"Sleep paralysis" is exactly such a regressive definition of the phenomenon. Paralysis is only the side effect of the real phenomenon. Panic is one of the best preconditions for doing BCI/SST. It gives much energy for the transformation. During Chernobyl I suffered also a panic; an extrem panic.

In the second volume I also interpret UFO phenomena. In my interpretation also these phenomena belong to what I call the twin process: physical and/or psychic energy is transformed into the magic energy of the unus mundus and then re-transformed into physical and/or psychic energy of altered order. These show as UFOs and Aliens. The former control altered energies that cannot be explained by physical laws (some sort of psychokinetic effects, I guess), the latter function telepathically and precognitively.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:09 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
This occurred about three months ago, Remo:

'I had a hypnopompic vision of an outstretched hand reaching towards me as I lay in bed. It seemed to want to touch the tips of my fingers, as in Michelangelo's image of God's finger touching that of Adam in the Sistine Chapel. I reached out my own hand. I felt oddly divided, as if a part of me knew that it was a dream, and part of me was terrified. The terrified part of me won, and I screamed loudly twice.'

I think that I really did scream, and I probably did feel energised afterwards.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:09 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Pauli's use of the concept of potential being becoming actual being reminded me of the concept of time developed by the philosopher J. G. Bennett. He postulated three forms of time, which he named Time (linear time), Eternity (potential, and containing all possibilities), and Hyparxis (which caused actual and potential to be connected and disconnected, and which he associated with will). These ideas are developed in Bennett's own books, and in Anthony Blake's 'A Seminar On Time'. This was the basic model adopted by J. B. Priestley in 'Man and Time', who was a friend of Jung, and had discussions with him about the nature of time.

Interesting, although not quite the same. The presence of will in the process seems at variance with the unknowability of an act of inward birth. I am reminded of the Grail stories in which a fugitive knight uses a sacred lance to defend himself, in ignorance of its true significance. On one level, this might be seen as a metaphor for the use of nuclear technology.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:39 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:48 pm
Posts: 174
Location: San Andreas, California USA
Post Re: Discussion of Return of the World Soul
Hi All,

I just placed an order through Amazon Book Sellers for Return of the World Soul.

Energy around the publication of Remo's book and around its discussion on the Forum is running "high" -- on a light scale, intensifying, being energized. One of the ways I understand and use high and higher vs low and lower is according to clarity and expansion of consciousness, viewpoint and vision.

Looking forward to participating.

Love to All,
Ann

_________________
To get the viewpoint of the other person appreciatively and profoundly and reconcile it with his own so far as possible is the supreme achievement of man and his highest vocation.
Henry Nelson Wieman


Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:08 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 126 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.