UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Remo,

I am currently reading your Holy Wedding, and I have just finished part 8:

http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_wedding_alchemy_modern_man_p1h_e.htm#41

In it you say:

Quote:
Since only the Eros ego can observe the Eros Self[11], the Logos ego has to transform into the Eros ego.


I was hoping you could explain further, why only the Eros ego can observe the Eros Self?

The Holy Wedding is helping me alot understand my own process much deeper, and helps me understand elements of my dreams which have only confused me in the past.

For example, I have been moving back and forth between two different anima images; one light and spirit oriented and the other darker, sexual, sometimes as a witch or wiccan.

Do the anima images correspond to the terms spirit-psyche/matter-psyche?

Sometimes they have been in conflict with each other and at other moments seem to be cooperating. At first, I saw the dark anima as only the shadow side of spirit (which I guess it is, without the negative connotations). I had an impressive moment (in a dream) several months ago when I realized the (dark anima) matter-psyche could see things the spirit-psyche could not. To see them now in relationship to spirit-psyche and matter-psyche really helps. I suppose there is more to it, but at least I can understand them now within a context.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri May 12, 2006 10:20 am
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Ryan wrote:
For example, I have been moving back and forth between two different anima images; one light and spirit oriented and the other darker, sexual, sometimes as a witch or wiccan.


You dream real Wolfgang Pauli dreams! He dreamt of the white and the dark anima. The white he interpreted as his physics, the dark as the Chinese woman, who chased him in his last years. The light woman became more and more destructive, the dark more and more constructive. Pauli was however not able anymore to see that the dark woman, the Chinese, belongs to the process I describe as Body-Centered Imagination.

Quote:
Do the anima images correspond to the terms spirit-psyche/matter-psyche?


Yes. The white anima is what Carl Jung called the Anima. She is spirit-psyche, however some sort of a feminine spirit-psyche. Like this she is the mediator between the conscious spirit-psyche, ie the Logos ego (the thinking/intuition or the thinking/sensation type), and the unconscious spirit-psyche, the (Logos) Self. In some of Jung's quaternarian models of the structure (3+1) the white Anima is the one which corresponds to the Trinity. Since it is only a oneness, I always said that this principle cannot be an energetic one, since "energetical" always means a differentiation into the three. [Electricity: One needs a positive and a negative pole, and the third is the energetic flow. Now physicist is able to produce an electrical currant with only the positive pole ...]

The dark "anima" is the anima mundi, the world soul. She is the lower triangle of the Seal of Solomon, but also the whole Seal of Solomon. In the first case she is -- in the symbolic image -- not yet pregnant, in the second she is pregnant with the seed of the old king (who dies during this process, since he enters her womb) and able to acausally produce the new king. I talk about all this in section 4.7, http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... _e.htm#471 of The Holy Wedding.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri May 12, 2006 11:33 am
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Post 
Quote:
I had an impressive moment (in a dream) several months ago when I realized the (dark anima) matter-psyche could see things the spirit-psyche could not. To see them now in relationship to spirit-psyche and matter-psyche really helps. I suppose there is more to it, but at least I can understand them now within a context.


The dark anima, the world soul, cannot only see unknown things, but she (acausally) creates completely new things, eg machines with an increased negentropy of physical energy, ie the UFOs.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri May 12, 2006 11:35 am
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Post Pauli
Remo,

You have no idea how many of my dreams correspond exactly to things discussed in this forum and also Pauli, though I have zero contact with his work. It's scary (in an amazing way). I was absolutely shocked when I read this:

Quote:
Pauli, however, amplifies with the blue flower of German romanticism = magics! and with the corn flower of Demeter. In his free association he comes then to -- "worm holes" ... They were not yet invented then, in the fifties. But they belong to the acausality of magics, to the blue flower of romanticism, and to the acausality and nonlocality of quantum physics.


I hate to keep putting dreams of mine on here, but I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel it specifically related to the discussion at hand.

My Dream:

I am in some sort of room with our ‘space heater’-(estufa in spanish) assembling it to work correctly. I am then in another area. And there is a larger version of this space heater shaped like the back of our computer chair (that is large and black) that O (My Wife’s Oldest Brother) has assembled. (It has an X like pattern for the legs or stand) But for me he has assembled it upside down. With the part that supports the lower back at the top. I comment this to him but he doesn’t seem to see anything wrong. (I believe our son is here or perhaps a child)
I am now in a different position, looking closer at the space heater/chair and it is going through changes by looking at it. (my wife is to my right looking at this with me) the chair or and area on the back part of the chair first turns upside down and back again and an image takes the shape of like a white shield or ‘coat of arms’ or in the shape of wings, but I don’t remember any thing on this.
It then moves a little to my left and shows the image of a black scarab which too rotates upside down and begins to look like something different though I can still see that it is an upside down scarab. Then the image/chair moves directly in front of me, and I begin to see the image clearly after having difficulty in understanding what I am seeing, though I think I see a bird. It is difficult because the image is in silhouette.
Then the image focuses clearly and I see: on a white back round, there is a perfect single-stemmed blue rose and a single, slightly brownish baby bird, ugly and new born with its mouth open and long neck stretched, hungry for food or is waiting to be fed-sitting on the left side of the nest reaching up and towards the center. The blue rose emerges from behind this nest. After seeing this I wake up impressed with this image.

I discovered that the blue rose had a place in German Romanticism, but it really didn't lead me anywhere, except as a vegetative anima image or as a symbol for the unattainable. Once reading your post I considered that the bird was hungry for 'worms'.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri May 12, 2006 11:48 am
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Post Additional Comments
I thinking perhaps I placed this dream in the wrong thread, so if someone knows where it fits better please place it where you think you should. But to follow the dream a little closer I want to clarify some things.

The space heater in spanish is called "estufa" also has connotations with a stove. I forgot to mention in the dream that in both the one I am fixing and on the black version the electric coils glow an orange/red. (I also associate 'radiation' with this; as in English heat radiates and we also have radiators, though they are concerned with hot steam).

My wife is a Botonist. She studies plants, (especially the genetic and molecular aspects as well as reproduction)

I think the black chair is a type of 'back'round. The X shaped base reminds me of Remo's post:

Quote:
As I have shown in http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... 52.htm#521 the talk about matter, psyche and spirit is completely metaphysical, since no one knows what these terms really are. Thus Carl Jung and Wolfgang Pauli agreed that they are just an unknown X.

Like this, one of the above sentences becomes like this: “A factor exists which mediates between the apparent incommensurability of X and X”, a further one: “X has an X aspect, and the X an X aspect;” A complete nonsense.


Which means for me that this 'backround' is supported on an unknown thing.

The fact that the lower back portion is placed above the head rest 'says that it (the lower back/belly) must take the place of the head.

The unknown child or my son perhaps is an allusion to the 'solar infant'.

As I am looking intently at this backround, the first thing to appear is what I take to be either a shield or even perhaps wings: Is this a possible Perseus/Pegasus reference?

Then the scarab, which reiterates the juxtaposition of 'head and tails' The scarab of course reminds me of both death and rebirth, but perhaps more of the sun in its underwater journey. But there is something more, the image isn't content to stay this way so it moves directly infront of me and begins to change, not yet clear, yet it finally decides on a bird.

First, the final image is on a white backround, which reminds me of the 'projection screen' as seen in movies.

Considering the bird, I thought phoenix, but this just repeats the scarab image. And once I had read Remo's The Holy Wedding (though I am not finished) I see that this new animal life is in front of the most important image: the blue rose. The Anima Mundi? The vegetable sexuallity and process behind the animal procreation? I think so. I never would have considered this if not for reading Remo's work. (My wife the botonist is there on my right, my conscious side to assist in understanding the importance of the flower over the bird.) The flower really was the most impressive image when I experienced it.

That is all. Perhaps the 'hunger for worms' fits or it doesn't. I'm not sure.

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri May 12, 2006 9:12 pm
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Post Re: Additional Comments
Ryan wrote:
I thinking perhaps I placed this dream in the wrong thread, so if someone knows where it fits better please place it where you think you should. But to follow the dream a little closer I want to clarify some things.


Ryan, I have created a new thread, which deals, as the title tells us, with "the bright and the dark anima, the blue flower and wormholes", since they belong together. Thus, we could talk about your dream in this thread.

The interesting aspect is for me the blue flower behind the little bird who would like to eat the worms. If we look at the situation very concretely, like this the throat of the bird becomes some sort of a "wormhole" :o :lol:

Like this we can interpret: The blue flower -- as a rose it is of course the flower of Eros -- , ie magics, is the background of the wormhole fantasies.

The wormholes are for me the connection between the world of spirit-psyche and the world of matter-psyche (the unus mundus). In a Hermetic alchemical language it is the womb of the queen. And out of this "wormhole" in which the old king, the spirit-psyche, disappears, the new king is born. This new king are the crop circles, the UFOs and the "ETs." I will talk about all this tomorrow or on Sunday in the thread The six possible observable events in a psychophysical world.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri May 12, 2006 10:04 pm
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