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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 The 11:11 Phenomenon 
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Post Number 11
In numerology number 11/2 is the higher brivation of the number two. !! is a spiritual vibration and carries some weight with it. Sometimes spiritual leadres have this vibration.If one has this number in her/his numerological chart and does not accept the challenge of the #11, it will revert to the number two which is sensitive, gentle, tendency to become a doormat and benign. 11/2 cycles can be very painful, fraught with difficulties. There's morfe info available for those who are interested.

Best Frances.


Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:06 am
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Post 11:11 and the compensation of the power by the powerlessness
I am correcting section 5.8 of my ms. The Holy Wedding (see http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... ntents.htm ) with the title Carl Jung’s power complex and its breakdown in the powerlessness of the second association test of 1907. In it I summarize the quintessence of this process that happened between Sabina Spielrein and Carl Jung in 1907 (and later in Jung in 1913 again) with the following sentences of Johann Wolfgang Goethe's The Fisherman:

Halb zog sie ihn, halb sank er hin
Und ward nicht mehr gesehn.


English Translation:

In part it was she who pulled him in,
In part, he, who sank therein -
Never to be seen again.



and print the corrected version out. The print time is -- 11:11

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:36 am
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Post The archetype of # 11
I guess all humans here understand that the archetype of # 11 is something very important for our time. It describes a collectively constellated process happening in the depths of the unus mundus. For all the humans who join us as guests I'd like therefore to stress that I am only one of -- hopefully -- millions of people, in whom this archetype is (unconsciously) constellated. My special task in this work was, is and will be to combine the archetype of # 11 with the coniunctio symbolism. Like this it has also to do with # 9, since the latter is the symbol for the "new thing" ("neuf" in French means new and nine). Like this of course with 9/11 -- and to my greatest amazement also with my mandala.

I am very glad and thank Kristin for bringing in the DA'ATH aspect of # 11. I guess it is exactly what physics calls the wave function, and Wolfgang Pauli -- on a psychophysical level -- the psychophysical reality, Carl Jung the unus mundus. As I have shown in another thread ( http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=66 ) the wave function describes with the help of the imaginary terms a potential world out of which the real, i.e., real new life in the here and now, is created in the moment the so called (acausal) quantum leap or collapse of the wave function happens.

Thus, including my further remarks about # 11 a the number of the Tao, we can conclude that DA'ATH and the potential world of the Tao (and the unus mundus) are one and the same: The hidden god, the deus absconditus, of Carl Jung's dream of his early childhood (see http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... 2_e.htm#52 ), which is (in my interpretation) the world soul potentially containing the new creation. By the observation of such spontaneous incarnation processes out of DA'ATH or the Tao, or the unus mundus we help to incarnate these potential processes -- and perhaps like this the negative karma, the individual as well as the collective, the collective disease of our beautiful world, could be healed.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:06 pm
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Post The demonization of # 11 and the way out
Kristin & all

Quote:
First of all, it seems that the number 11 has been looked upon in general in a somewhat negative way by traditional western religious texts/leaders (in the Talmud at least, from what I can tell by my mini search). This is because 10 is considered by those conventions to be a 'perfect' number, and therefore the number 'eleven' becomes the location where humanity can be seen to 'fall' away again from the attainment of such perfection. I was not aware of this distinction. Perhaps someone else knows more about it. It was quite an odd discovery, given that I had only just learnt from Remo in the forum that the Tao presents the number eleven as THE number of 'peace' and reciprocity, the number of the achievement of a form of grace. What a comparison!


I can very well understand that # 11 has been looked upon in a negative way. If it is true that it has to do with the Tao, or with the unio corporalis, the acausal creation out of the unus mundus, it must nececessarily be evil for Jewish and of course also for Christian people. For both of them it was God who created the world in seven days. Of course today we look at such a statement with the help of a symbolic language, but -- and now the great but -- comes: All these creation myths are masculine and causal. God had the will to create and therefore he began and ended his creation at the sixth day.

In a religious or philosophical language we call this sort of a creation act the creatio ex nihilo. It is God's big bang, so to speak. And since then the idea of the processes in the universe are imagined as what Carl Jung called the "cheerless clockwork phantasy". The world develops in a causal way and no really new creation and incarnation is possible. This is also the worldview behind Neoplatonic science. And it is behind Carl Jung's quaternity, since the latter belongs together with Einstein's four dimensional world, which is completely causal. [This is why Jung has left for us a contradiction, since his synchronicity theory is acausal]

But then quantum physics came and with it the quantum leap, which is completely acausal or indeterministic. There real incarnation acts can happen (or could, if science would accept this). It is the feminine creation act of the world soul, the so-called creatio continua. This term means that real new creation is possible in any (acausal) moment after the big bang.

The latter is the creation process described by Hermetic alchemy in the Holy Wedding, coniunctio, unio corporalis -- or in the union of yin and yang in the Tao in Taoism. As I have shown above, # 11 is the number of the Tao. Since this process is however acausal, indeterministic it is demonized by all religious system which believe in a Creator who has only once created the "cheerless clockwork".

I quote out of my ms. "The Return of the World Soul" (sorry!), http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/jungneo ... p4.htm#339 , where I show that already Wolfgang Pauli has had some anticipations in this direction.

Quote:
This acausal principle of the anima mundi was of extreme importance for Pauli. He writes (in [1646]) that it is

„dasjenige ..., was sich der geistigen, gesetzmässigen (= ‘lichten’) Ordnung zunächst entzieht. Das ist das Böse im Ethischen (Problem der Integration des Bösen in die Gottheit, etc.), das Akausale in der Naturphilosophie. [Pauli, 1999, p. 283]

English translation:

„the one that withdraws an intellectual order of laws. It is the evil in ethics (the problem of the integration of evil into the godhead, etc.), the acausal in natural philosophy.“ [Pauli, 1999, p. 283; translation mine]

The Fludd/flood synchronicity (see Chapter 2) has shown us, that science should - on a higher level - return to the findings of Robert Fludd. We can guess now, that this recourse must have something to do with a return of the world soul in our times.



Thus, since # 11 has to do with the irrational acausality of this other creation process, it was always demonisized.

However, today one can see more and more that such "breaks" in individual lifes happen. More and more people cannot go on all their life with the same profession, for example. The have to change, to travel, to find a new job, and so on [US people have most experience in this, which gives them a great lead compared with other ones]. Relationships break much more often than some decades ago, and so on.

The "quantum leap" has unconsciously entered our lifes -- however, we do mostly not realize this. Therefore these breaks are mostly destructive.

Consciously living in the archetype of # 11 includes therefore the acceptance of the acausal quantum leap as a chance and not as a threat. Especially in Switzerland and Germany with their mentality of the "Besitzstandwahrung" (non-impairment of vested rights?) will have very many trouble with this new mentality. But we don't have any other chance, since otherwise the destructive aspect of this inertia will destroy us.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:37 pm
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Post # 11 and individuation process
Thus we can conlude that what Carl Jung calls the individuation process cannot of course happen in people who are not able to give up their mentality of the "Besitzstandwahrung". Institutes, diplomas, careers, having much money are therefore the biggest obstacles for a real individuation. Thus I cannot believe anymore that anyone in such secure circumstances can anyone else tell anything about this development process.

Very interesting is that already Wolfgang Pauli has seen that the individuation process must have something to do with the "lower triad" and thus with the Seal of Solomon. The cross and the quaternity do however not have this "lower triad". Thus it seems impossible to individuate "in the sign of the cross."

If this conclusion is true, it will have severe consequences concerning the judgement of Carl Jung's "quaternity projected into Heaven". And this could be the (unconscious or only half-conscious) reason why Wolfgang Pauli criticized this concept so heavily.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:01 pm
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Remo, this is all coming together now. This is great stuff. It's interesting what you say concerning the fact that those in set institutional positions of power (who take those positions too seriously, who use their positions for purposes of self-definition) are no longer able to say anything more as to how we should 'live' our lives, about what we should be doing, how we should be spending our time. It used to be that we thought we needed these constructs/structures to hold us up, but now those very things have become crutches, have become brittle, and only a new 'elasticity' and flow can help us now (Tao). This is a big problem also for those N. Americans who exhibit their own form of 'Besitzstandwahrung'. These are, I guess, the fundamentalists, if you look at it that way. Also the nationalists, those who attach to worn out concepts. But they argue this is important as there is nothing else between us and chaos - ( chaos energy, the 'dark energy' - fear arises!).

Well we do not know where the acausal energy may lead us, but as you state, we have no other choice but to embrace it at this point in our evolution. We have not found a way to integrate it, we have not been willing to embrace it even a little bit, so now we have to pay the price of going WAY 'out on a limb', of walking to the edge of the precipice and allowing that we might have to jump. Most people cannot 'go there' consciously, as you have said, and will no doubt simply be forced to do so at some point then instead - they will never accept the acausal quantum leap. So what event will come that will force this acceptance? It is awe-inspiring to imagine, and not necessarily a comforting thought, as Michael infers when he speaks of the anticipation people have of another infernal event such as a 9/11. The point is, 9/11 IS the 'acausal energy' as you so clearly say. This is absurdly the truth. We seem to have had no hand in its' arrival on the external level (with the horrible Twin Towers event, the projected 'Tower' card of the Tarot), and yet we are all at some level culpable, for so many have not accepted their own personal 9/11 in their own lives that they had to 'create' one on the outside. As we accept this energy, conversely, we become conscious ones. Then our energy becomes helpful to all around us - it becomes the energy of the deep 'healer',as you have stated. This is probably why many have 'needed' the so-called terrorist plot idea, of course. If the majority didn't have such a scapegoat, what would happen then? I can't imagine. They would have to fall back on themselves and the drama would have to constellate 'within'. It makes me think of that idea of the millenium 'bug', something so small, something 'inside the machine', but oh so very dangerous, which they kept saying would 'break down the economic system of the world' etc. if it was able to take hold. They never found it and this scenario never happened - or did it??

Now something else: an event happened about a week or so ago which relates to your above argument of 'the quaternity' as not being capable of supporting us in our crucial work anymore. I used to collect crosses. I liked symbols of all kinds, and crosses were one type. I had all different kinds, including the celtic cross, equal on all sides (the real quaternity mark, which I like better than the christian cross). I had one christian style cross from Mexico. It was the best one as it was painted white with a beautiful golden flower on it with leaves. I liked it as it stood for nature on the cross. I thought of it as cleansing - not as if nature was crucified, but as if nature was 'clearing' the false idea of pain and suffering that we had too easily accepted as 'the truth'. Then the other day while I was looking out the window, thinking it was a beautiful day, my hand suddenly came up and accidentally swept the cross off of the ledge. It fell and broke (it was made of clay and glazed). One of the arms broke off and part of the top. I wasn't really sad, but just thoughtful. It seemed correct. It is now on my bookshelf and I am not going to fix it. I knew at the time it was significant in my life, so I waited. Now I understand quite well!

A very HAPPY EQUINOX :P to everyone today! We enter the sign of the fiery Ram, our new beginning, with our feet still in the waters of Scorpio...
...more info on Da'ath aspect soon...
over and out....
kf

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Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:59 am
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kristin wrote:
A very HAPPY EQUINOX :P to everyone today! We enter the sign of the fiery Ram, our new beginning, with our feet still in the waters of Scorpio...


Cheers. May this Spring bring new life and light to our understanding of the Self.

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Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)


Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:07 am
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kristin wrote:
It's interesting what you say concerning the fact that those in set institutional positions of power (who take those positions too seriously, who use their positions for purposes of self-definition) are no longer able to say anything more as to how we should 'live' our lives, about what we should be doing, how we should be spending our time.


People who preach water and secretly drink wine...

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:00 am
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kristin wrote:
This is a big problem also for those N. Americans who exhibit their own form of 'Besitzstandwahrung'. These are, I guess, the fundamentalists, if you look at it that way. Also the nationalists, those who attach to worn out concepts. But they argue this is important as there is nothing else between us and chaos - ( chaos energy, the 'dark energy' - fear arises!).


Fundamentalism is "the new wine in old skins <bottles?>". Their idea of the intelligent design is in principle right. However, they concretisize and like this regress to the biblic seven day happening of the old god -- some sort of a biblical big bang...

The central idea of the intelligent design is however right (but in the wrong skins!). Neo-Darwinism must be compensated by a complementary creation principle. Every serious scientist would have to accept that already because of statistical reasons the evolution according to the neo-Darwinist's models was not possible. Already Pauli tried to convince biologists of this truth, did however not succeed. Also others did as for example the theoretical physicist Walter Heitler in 1946. The Nobel laureate of medicine 1967, George Wald, did the same at the meeting of Nobel laureates in Lindau in 1984.

Thus, there are two fundamentalisms, the religious and the scientific.

As much as I understand, Wolfgang Pauli had the solution of the problem, at least implicitely. He formulated it in and around his today famous Piano Lesson imagination (end of October 1953), dedicated to Marie-Louise von Franz, today published in Pauli, Wissenschaftlicher Briefwechsel, vol. 4/II, letter [1667], pp. 329-341. Some days later, at 11/11/1953, in letter [1672] to her he described the vision he had some days after this imagination. It is the vision of the Chinese woman (RFR: the world soul) who showed him the relation between the Seal of Solomon, the quintessence and the square.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:38 am
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[continuation]

I do not know if the Piano Lesson is already published in English. Parts of the Chinese woman dream are published in MLvF's Number and Time, pp. 108-109:

Quote:
A Chinese woman (elevated to the rank of a "Sophia") is present with two men. I am the fourth. She says to me: "You must allow us to play every conceivable combination of chess."

In a subsequent half waking fantasy she announced to the dreamer, in a numinous voice: "In your drawings one element is perfectly correct and another transitory and false. It is correct that the lines number six, but it is false to draw six points. See here " and I saw:

Image

a square with clearly marked off diagonals. "Can you see now finally the four and the six? Four spatial points and six lines or six pairs out of four points. They are the same six lines that exist in the I Ching. There the six, containing three as a latent factor, are correct. Now observe the square more closely: four of the lines are of equal length, the other two are longer they are "irrationally related." There is no figure with four points and six equal lines. For this reason symmetry cannot be statically produced and a dance results. The coniunctio refers to the exchange of places during this dance. One can also speak of a game or rhythms and rotations. Therefore the three, already contained in a latent form in the square, must be dynamically expressed.


When I saw this dream for the first time, I immediately realized that it describes a world revolution. Deeply impressed of it I went to Marie-Louise von Franz and told her my incredibly deep feeling.

She only accepted my feelings and my conclusions after a heavy battle in 1989. Then she wrote the English original of the foreword to my I Cercatori di Dio (The Quest for God). She wrote:

Quote:

"Jung found further that the mandala does not only mirror an inner state of order, but that its harmony or disharmony encompasses also the surroundings of the individual. Thus a mandala needs a symbol in which the outer and inner world merge. There is for Jung a ultimate reality beyond matter and psyche which he called the unus mundus, its empirical manifestation is the principle of synchronicity because in synchronistic events the inner world behaves as if it were outside and the outer world as if it were inside. As the mandala symbolism expresses the holistic order of matter and psyche it should have been investigated by physicists as well as psychologists because the mandala reappears in their hypothetical models of the atomic world. The atomic model of Niels Bohr is already a cosmic mandala and the models which the physicists construct nowadays to visualize the quarks are also mandalas. It is therefore a merit of Dr. Remo Roth's book to pick up that neglected subject which is of the utmost importance, and I hope that it will provoke further widespread serious discussion of the subject."


Though she confessed that her God-image is the square, she accepted that also the Seal of Solomon could be one, thought however that it was the "Judeo-Christian 'Weltanschauung' which provoked hexagenarian mandalas".

We know (see http://journeyintowholeness.org/news/nl ... logy2.shtm ) that Marie-Louise von Franz neglected Christianism up until her end. She was fasincated of the time before Jesus Christ. I am however convinced that we can only go further when we overcome Judaism/Christianism, which means of course also that we have first to integrate their archetypal ideas. Only like this we can go further into the future.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:33 am
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Post 1111tv
to share your thoughts and theories regarding the 11:11 phenomenon, please drop by:

http://www.11-11.tv

michael :)


Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:58 pm
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Michael wrote:
One question I have is how to go about recognizing something as the counter-will of the collective unconscious. I've had a dream or two where I felt like I was in direct conversation with "God" and when I woke up I had this vague but real memory of having a whole talk about synchronicity and how "it is the point".


Michael

Perhaps I should precisize here that UFOs have on the one hand in fact to do with synchronicities, namely the capability of the "UFOnauts" to have a telepathic relationship with humans. The rest however is more than synchronicity. They have to do with a creation and incarnation which happens not only on the psychic level -- as synchronicity does though also matter "knows" -- but on the physical and/or psychophysical.

I'd like to explain this a little more. The difference is the following: In synchronicity there is first the dream, i.e., what I call inner spirit-psyche, and then we experience something very similar in the outside. Though synchronicity has to do with matter, outer world, etc., it is not really a physical incarnation. Finding the meaning of a synchronicity means a new creation or incarnation on the level of the spirit-psyche.

UFOs, ETs, crop circles, Pauli effects, macro-psychokinetics have however directly to to with matter. In a Pauli effect a material thing moves for example without the influence of any known force. See for example the Pauli effect and the synchronicty at the founding ceremony of the C.G. Jung Institute in Zurich in 1948, http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_f ... d_sync.htm . The synchronicity was between the Pauli effect (resulting in a flood) and Pauli's inner tension concerning the Hermetic alchemist Robert Fludd (this is why I call it the Fludd/flood synchronicity) he was studying then. The Pauli effect itself was however not a synchronicity. It was something like magics: A force -- according to Jung an von Franz, in synchronicities there are no physical forces as a relation between the two events -- moved the Chinese vase so that it fell to the floor and bursted. Thus there must have been some strange force -- according to my explanation model a force with higher negentropy -- belonging somehow to the inside of Pauli (his subtle body?) that was able to move the Chinese vase. Similar events one can observe in the surrounding of people in puberty. Thus, all this must have to do with the "force" behind the sexuality. This is why I bring such Pauli effects together with Hermetic alchemy, with the coniunctio and with what I call the matter-psyche, the "energy" of the world soul, of the "womb of the universe". Synchronicity has however to do with a Logos principle, i.e., with (inner and outer) spirit-psyche.

We can compare these two different principles also with the third and the fourth quark and their conservation laws. The third pair of quarks is called strange / antistrange. In the process called strangeness always a pair of particles is created, the one containing strange the other antistrange. Thus there is still a separation, as is in synchronicity.

The fourth pair of quarks is called charm / anticharm. These two quarks combine in one particle charm/anticharm (c, c-). [charm = magics!] This particle is called charmonium. It was first observed by two teams simultaneously but indipendently (in 1972). The one team called it J (Jei), the other Psi. Thus, it became the J/Psi -- but soon later, it became what? The Gipsy !!! Gipsies are however well known as having magical powers. Thus magics comes in here.

See also http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/gslectu ... p1b.htm#12 , remark in section 1.3

I am convinced today that strangeness and charm are the physical reduction ("projection" in the meaning of reduction of at least one dimension) of two principles of the psychophysical realm, namely synchronicity on the one hand and magics on the other. What happens in the UFO phenomenology has much more to do with charm, i.e., with magics, than with synchronicity.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:33 pm
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Quote:
We know (see http://journeyintowholeness.org/news/nl ... logy2.shtm ) that Marie-Louise von Franz neglected Christianism up until her end. She was fasincated of the time before Jesus Christ. I am however convinced that we can only go further when we overcome Judaism/Christianism, which means of course also that we have first to integrate their archetypal ideas. Only like this we can go further into the future.


I should perhaps add that despite these theoretical differences about the structure of the God-image Marie-Louise von Franz and I went on to have a friendly relationship. This was only possible since no one of us identified with her/his scientific thoughts (anymore), but accepted the so-called "personal equation" (Carl Jung) of each other. Her personal equation was her typology as a thinking/intuitive type, mine was and still is my feeling/intuition typology.

It seems that since Wolfgang Pauli and Marie-Louise von Franz's typology were the same -- thinking/intuition -- they were not able to find this solution. This is the incredibly great tragedy of their relationship in the first half of the fifties of the last century.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:28 pm
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So, 'charm' is the magic component, while 'strangeness' is the synchronicity component of the lower triad - am I correct? The lower triad being the triad of a-causaity. And these 2 things are secret 'laws' which we continue to marginalize in our lives (where they remain on the periphery). Because of this mechanism, we then tend to 'project' these secret truths onto others, and so on. Is this basically correct ?

And dreaming is so important because we can get 'at' this material, it becomes the only place where some people can ever access this material and energetically engage with it. Only a few people access/engage with it in everyday life - the feeling/intuitive types? And while this is healthy, it is also hard because the material world considers this material to be the stuff of 'delusion'.

But then, conversely, there seem to be those who OVER sympathize with this material, to the exclusion of all else. Do they not also do the material a disservice in some way? Perhaps they are doing a double-projection as they project back onto the material of the lower triad in t heir attempts to 'merge' with the material. This is a sort of phenonemon of one side of the new-age movement perhaps, but also of the wicca groups etc., I imagine. I can completely understand why this occurs. It is like those who play the game of 'Dungeons and Dragons' all day long, and seem to live only in and for the imaginary worlds which they create.

I have played and enjoyed 'D and D', and believe in the revelatory aspects of role-playing in 'other realities'. I am very interested in the ways in which some of these groups interact with and give studied consideration to the truth of other realities that exist parallel perhaps to our own present location. I believe their enthusiasm for this activity to be quite worthy in and of itself, actually. As well, just as MLvF, I am fascinated/enlivened too by the pre-christian world. IN fact, I consider myself somewhere 'on the fence' between MLvF's thoughtful engagement with the deep 'pagan' world view and the attempt to straddle the Judeo-Christian world view into another, fresher place, the place which Remo (and Pauli, in the end) describes by use of the Seal of Solomon mandala (as opposed to that of the 'equal' armed cross).

It is certainly very strange, because we are in/of this world, yes, but apparently simultaneously also 'within' many other worlds as well, given this Seal of Solomon model. Yet, as the Tao states, we have to somehow 'Be here, NOW', whilst still owning this other hard-won information. We yearn to engage analytically with this information, but at some level we simply cannot. Once we are truly 'in' it , we seem to lose the actuality of the analytic model completely , and it becomes more and more difficult, until all the complexity just rolls away and we are 'simple' again - now without some process we once loved (an attachment to our intellectual capacity?), but finally 'whole' BECAUSE of our loss.

Just some ideas.

The story of the impasse, yet still solid friendship with MLvF, is very inspiring.

Kristin

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Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:25 pm
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Post 
Just to clarify something from my previous reply: when I said I am 'on the fence' above, I didn't mean it literally. That statement was badly worded! I do wholeheartedly agree with Remo's theory of getting 'out the other side' of the whole religious conventional equation - the Judeo-Christian one - and from there into another paradigm. Remo's ideas and tactical approach to this conundrum are solid and irrefutable, to my mind and 'soul'. I only meant that I too had come from MLvF's place of fellow feeling in regard to the idea of the pagan (for want of a better word) world - that I had had that same very strong attachment to the idea of a world before this one (if that is what you actually meant, Remo, when you describe MLvF's way of perceiving things via the quaternity model).

O.K. HOpe that's clearer now... am finding the energy today to be exhausting - my focus is a bit 'off' for now.... :shock:

so long ...
Kristin

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Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:29 am
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Post ...at first I thought it was a Monty Python site!
Here is a very strange and bizarre site that apparently caters to the more conspiracy-minded paranoids with calculators out there...
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/wtc/index02.htm
This bunch doesn't like the number 11 at all, as it seems to be mixed up with all kinds of sinister and unsavory groups like the Freemasons(!), the shadowy Illuminati, and even Osama bin Laden!

Wow

I guess we're all just part of the satanic UFO New-World-Order conspiracy and we didn't even know it.

...thanks a lot, number 11!

Chris


Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:26 am
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Post 
Kristin

What's 'Dungeons and Dragons'?

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:46 am
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kristin wrote:
Just to clarify something from my previous reply: when I said I am 'on the fence' above, I didn't mean it literally. That statement was badly worded! I do wholeheartedly agree with Remo's theory of getting 'out the other side' of the whole religious conventional equation - the Judeo-Christian one - and from there into another paradigm. Remo's ideas and tactical approach to this conundrum are solid and irrefutable, to my mind and 'soul'. I only meant that I too had come from MLvF's place of fellow feeling in regard to the idea of the pagan (for want of a better word) world - that I had had that same very strong attachment to the idea of a world before this one (if that is what you actually meant, Remo, when you describe MLvF's way of perceiving things via the quaternity model).


Yes, we should find back to a pagan world, but first we must overcome Christianity. This means that we should include and newly interpret its central ideas. For example the virgin birth: The idea is right, since it is the creatio continua, i.e., the creation of the world sould without the help of masculine dominance. The world soul creates out of herself, indeterministically with -- sorry for the blasphemy, but it is like that -- her own cock. This is why in the East they have the Yoni/Lingam symbol:

Image

It is the self creating goddess, similar to Atum in the old Egypt symbolism. Translated into a modern language this means that this creation is acausal, indeterministic, not dependent on the will (= causality) of the god, who on the contrary is dead and entered her womb. It is the causal (or statistically causal) mentality of science which dies. This is the history of the future -- but not too many people realize that.

If we do not realize this revolution, we end exactly there where the American fundamentalism is (and hopefully ends): In the concretization of some strange Christian ideas, ie of a anthropomorphic god with a long beard, a young one and some strange dove that flutters between them... It is of course the old image of the masculine god who creates out of his will -- without any womb.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:57 am
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Post Strangeness and Charm, Synchronicity and Magics, and 2012
kristin wrote:
So, 'charm' is the magic component, while 'strangeness' is the synchronicity component of the lower triad - am I correct? The lower triad being the triad of a-causaity. And these 2 things are secret 'laws' which we continue to marginalize in our lives (where they remain on the periphery). Because of this mechanism, we then tend to 'project' these secret truths onto others, and so on. Is this basically correct ?


Not exactly. Strangeness/synchronicity has to do with the two aspects of the upper triad, physical energy = outer spirit-psyche and objective psychic energy (libido in the meaning of Jung, ie more than sexual energy) = what I call the inner spirit-psyche. Alredy the latter term and its "inner energy" is not accepted by science, which only accepts outer spirit-psyche, i.e. physical/chemical energy.

Synchronicity cannot thus be accepted by science (the other fundamentalism as I named it in another thread), since science does not accept the objective psychic energy. But synchronicity exists and is incarnated into our space and time bound world by its observation.

What seems obivous in synchronicity is the fact that the outer as well as the inner energy seem to be in an excited state or perhaps have got a higher negentropy. Thus, the dream as well as the outer object have a "knowledge", some sort of a modulation (in the meaning of electro technology) which gives these energies more "meaning". But then the ego must change from the observational state into the interpretive, cognitive state and try to find out what such a synchronicity means. A good example for this is my Kappa synchronicity which is at the beginning of my psychophysical research, see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/gslectu ... e_p2.htm#2 .

The magics of the Pauli effect, macro-psychokinesis, UFOs/"ETs" and crop circles seems to be something qualitatively different (as are strangeness and charm in quantum physics). In these processes, which seem to belong to a new Hermetic science based on Hermetic alchemy, i.e., on the archetype of the Holy Wedding (coniunctio, unio corporalis), physical and/or objective psychic energy transform first into the "other energy", in what I call the matter-psyche. In the post
http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#226 I have described this process. I call it the twin process. In it the negentropy of matter or of physical energy is increased (as much as I can see). This means higher live of the material world -- and not of the psychic, as the result of the interpretation of a synchronicity is in fact.

What does this mean? I don't know exactly yet. But I guess that "higher negentropy of anorganic matter" means the same as completely new physical laws. These laws are "higher" than the ones we know today. This is why UFOlogists think that the "ETs" come out of another universe or from another star, but I guess that all these "higher technology" phantasies are a projection. The real thing is this higher negentropy physical energy gets. It is the king (physical energy) that gets this higher state because of his death and regeneration in the womb of the goddess, if we express the process with the help of the Hermetic alchemical language. It is this process -- unknown for all Neoplatonic scientists, since they believe only in a quantitative process of the transformation of matter into energy et vice versa, and not in a qualitative process in which the energy per se get a "higher state" (the dying king which is reborn in the womb of the goddess) -- we accelerate incredibly with the help of the artificial fission of the atom and the artificial radioactivity belonging to it.

Thus mankind will develop into a world in which completely new physical laws will rule. This will express in parapsychological phenomena no one understands. The way out could be to observe dreams, synchronicities and do BCI to find out what world and what new laws this could be. But up until then we will experience great catastrophes since not too many people understand what happens -- especially not the politicians and the dogmatic scientists.

This is why I am sometimes very depressed, since I have also a son of 18 years who must live in this "brave new world" ... after Dec 21, 2012 11:11, or already shortly before ?

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:21 pm
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Post 
Quote:
If we do not realize this revolution, we end exactly there where the American fundamentalism is (and hopefully ends): In the concretization of some strange Christian ideas, ie of a anthropomorphic god with a long beard, a young one and some strange dove that flutters between them... It is of course the old image of the masculine god who creates out of his will -- without any womb.


And here the story of the Grail begins ... The Grail is the womb of the Goddess, and I hope that there are some brave knights (men and women) of the Holy Grail, who begin their quest now and will hopefully find it.

This is the vision and the hope Marie-Louise von Franz expressed at the end of her Carl Jung biography [I don't have the English translation, thus I cannot qoute it]

Quote:
Wie viele Helden werden sich nun an diesem Stein treffen, um das grosse Abenteuer der Individuation, der Fahrt nach innen, antreten? Davon hängt meiner Überzeugung nach heute das Schicksal unserer westlichen Kutur ab."


Remo

PS: Perhaps someone can translate this last section of MLvF's book.

Here is a possible translation of the quotation by MLvF (by Kristin):

Quote:
"How many heroes will now meet with this stone, in order to enter the great adventure of individuation, the inner journey. Today I am convinced that the destiny of our western culture depends upon this"

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:35 pm
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Post 
kristin wrote:
So, 'charm' is the magic component, while 'strangeness' is the synchronicity component of the lower triad - am I correct? The lower triad being the triad of a-causaity. And these 2 things are secret 'laws' which we continue to marginalize in our lives (where they remain on the periphery). Because of this mechanism, we then tend to 'project' these secret truths onto others, and so on. Is this basically correct ?


Once again something to this -- at least for me -- decisive differentiation. With my Kappa synchronicity posted above I began to see that there must be something deeper than synchronicity. The latter is in some way acausal, insofar as there is no cause/effect relationship between the inner and the outer event (at least if we define s. according to Jung/Pauli). Thus there is neither an energetic relationship. This is the definition of synchronicîty with the help of acausality, i.e. acausality as the absence of causality. It serves to explain telepathy and precognition.

In magics (physically: "charm") there is however an acausal creation in matter itself. This is not the case in the acausal relationship between the two synchronistic events. Thus the Hermetic process serves to expalin psychokinetic events.

To differenciate these two ways of acausality was a big work, but it was a very important precondition for all my further work. Before this clarification I began to write my essay Wolfgang Pauli and Parapsychology, see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_p ... ogy_p3.htm , but after the third part, in which I began to understand that there is a difference between the psychoid archetype (belonging to synchronicity) and the psychophysical archetype [belonging to magics (charm)], Pauli and Jung looked yet at as the same. Since then I could go on with the above essay, but for the moment I have to write other things.

With the help of this differenciations I was also able to understand more and more, why Pauli's "stranger" -- some sort of an Eros Self -- always gave him the order to replace synchronicity by "radioactivity". I began to realize that the preconscious knowledge of the collective unconscious liked to show Pauli that with "radioactivity" a completely different process is meant: The incarnatio (incarnation) of new living matter (or at least subtle matter). As a physicist he would of course have had to deal with this aspect of incarnation, whereus Jung as a humanistic scientist had to deal with the "spiritual" incarnation. Pauli did however not yet succeed.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:31 pm
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Post 
[continuation]

The fact that Pauli did not really succeed in understanding what radioactivity -- on a psychophysical level -- is, shows in a horrible dream he had, and describes in a letter:

Quote:
"In chemical retorts, a man produces out of radioacative uranium another yellow substance, which looks like bromine. Then the man disappears. Two attendant women (one of them of the motherly type) begin to scream for fear of this. [Obviously because of this transmutmation of the radioactive substance]. They state that the disappeared man is a deceased who died long ago, the spirit of a dead [RFR: obviously a revenant, Pauli speaks of on other occasions in his letters, where he brings it together wit the repressed world soul]. The younger adds that she is afraid because he produces the stripes.

I contradict both and tell them that it was not at all a deceased, and that I do neither see any stripes. The women calm a little.

Now also a man comes who resembles Einstein a little. He says that radioactivity is always a provisional state, but the final substance is now stable; therefore the experiment of that man is a great progress.

Now a man comes who resembles C.A. Meier. He has red bordered <?; don't know the exact term in English> eyes and an 'imbecile' expression of his face. He says: 'I have read in the newspaper that 'Kertino' (or a similarly sounding Italian fantasy name) had died.' - It seemed to me that he would like to imply that it was that man who had done the chemical experiment. Therefore I only say: 'Don't read so much in the newspapers.'

Now I try to speak to professor Jung, but I only meet the two women, who tell me that he is not reachable."


The women seem to understand that radiactivity belongs together with the realm of the dead and the Beyond, and it seems that they are extremely scared. Pauli however does not believe in this connection. The procedure produces however “stripes”, and Pauli was haunted by this motif all his life. It is an oscillation motif, and he always get a mortal fear when it emerged in his dreams (see e.g. Atom and Archetype, p. 187; if you have AaA read this page to see how horrible the scenario is). But the physicist cannot see that radioactivity opens – also without the total destruction in a 3rd world war -- in fact the physical world to this realm.

Then Einstein comes, who never believed that quantum physics is the last word. In another dream of Pauli "Einstein" (a symbolic aspect of Pauli, not the real Einstein) said that behind the world of quantum physics there must be a further one [RFR: what we call today the psychophysical reality]. Einstein talks of a great progress of the radioactive experiment of the deceased … ! It seems that exactly this experiment could bring the progress of the understanding of the relationship of radioactivity and the Beyond. But on the other hand the reincarnated experimenter dies. Thus the dream ends unsatisfactory.

And also Carl Jung cannot help anymore – obviously though he developed his depth psychological and synchronicity theory. It seems also unsatisfactory.

As much as I understand the dream, it talks of future events that will come soon. In 2012, or even earlier? Radioactivity has constellated the realm of the dead and of the Beyond, and the radioactive experiment is the incarnation that happens today on the level of the psychophysical reality. But the experimenter, the one who is conscious about this experiment (otherwise he could not do it), dies, i.e. the knowledge of the deeper background of radioactivity/Beyond sinks back into the unconscious. This was of course the situation of Pauli, who did not really realize the consequences of the postulation of a deeper aspect of radioactivity in the psychophysical reality – i.e. the incarnation processes out of the realm of the Dead that happen today. As long as we stay unconscious about these incarnation processes, they will become more and more destructive.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:56 pm
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This information becomes more and more intense! I understand the complexity of explaining it to the layperson now, especially using English, which could be very hard work, but here you have made a really good description of the entire process. Thanks, Remo. I am sure I need to repeat the reading of this material over and over until I REALLY get it 'under my skin' so to speak. This must be true of everyone.

It is interesting too that suddenly the information has given me a shudder - a bit of a fright - ! I guess it is that I knew about it, but I did not know the depths of it. I was not really thinking about radioactivity as being real, which it IS, on both the literal and figurative levels. It's funny that I wasn't so aware as I thought I was...

I understand very much what you mean about your son, and what his life will be in this different world of 2012 (plus or minus...). But - was it Einstein in Pauli's dream who said that this matter would BECOME stable eventually? Could it not be that we can somehow be equal to this new energy and thus 'subvert' it into a new creative era, instead of seeing the breakdown of everything? There are so many ideas about all of this in my head that it has been spinning for days.


You asked about Dungeons and Dragons:

:arrow: "Dungeons and Dragons" is an interactive game - a role-playing 'fantasy' game. A group of people elect/decide on one person, who will play the 'dungeon master' or head of the group. This master then creates a special fantasy world, complete with a landscape and stories about their new mythological world. Then each member of the group meets privately with the 'master' to discuss the fantasy land and what character role they will play in the game. Each member creates his/her own character, complete with profile (physical characteristics, emotional make-up, background histories etc.). They interact with the group leader to integrate their character into the masters fantasy template privately. Then the game begins. In order to play, dice of various different kinds are used. The game is very complex as one begins to get more advanced, with all kinds of different 'spells' that can be cast, and so on.

In 'D and D' (as it is called by players), the fantasy can be ANY kind of thing, such as based on Greek mythology, or outer space, or under the earth, or whatever the dungeon master conjures up. There are books written about the game, hundreds, all with special descriptions of different kinds of fantasy landscapes, characters etc. Some people use these books to make up the game, some people make up a fantasy from their own imagination (not very many anymore, I dont' think...) . There are different guides, for instance, to assigning what 'combat' level a warrior character has, what charisma level another type of character has (like a concubine or a priestess, and emperor, a thief, an assassin, etc. etc.) , what wisdom level a character has, etc. So, basically, it is a game of playing with the archetypes. (and it is amazing when people choose their archetype etc. - they always show SO much who they want to be in their hearts, and the people don't see the deep psychology for the most part at all, except maybe the seasoned players...)

Most people who play are teenagers and in their 20's, I think. It becomes an all-encompassing passion for many. THere are even little character models you can buy to represent your character. THis is a big business now. There are even special 'shades' of emotional/spiritual levels to be assigned to each character - one can be good/neutral/or bad , based on what one wants to 'do' within the game. Once you have chosen your emotional/spiritual 'tone' you are stuck with it throughout the entire game, which is what makes it interesting. But the group leader must control how many 'bad' or 'evil' characters there are etc. or it gets out of control and nothing can happen in the game - so, there must be a balance of good and neutral and bad characters.... It can be very interesting, but only, I think, if the people you are playing with ARE interesting, and the dungeon master is mature and intelligent. I think alot of the young people actually play the game to keep 'sane'! It especially helps those who are marginalized at their school, who are the outcasts. This is like the virtual games played on the computer, but here you are with 'live' people, and that brings in the communal aspect,which is healthier.

In order to play the game, people meet at each others houses and spend maybe 4 hours or more per each game period. There is an entire culture around this preoccupation. I couldn't believe it when I discovered it. I have heard that many fantasy writers use this game to create their characters and the lands that they live in. It takes alot of energy to make up new ideas, so I think there are just permutations of old ideas everywhere now. New fantasy ideas are like new science fiction - we need more of it, but often we don't get it, just recycled stuff... In this regard, they should look to the 'Unus Mundus' forum for inspiration - we have everything they need and more...!

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Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:42 am
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Post an idea for the translation of the MLvF quotation
[quote][/quote]

Here is a possible translation of the quotation by MLvF:

"How many heroes will now meet with (or come to?) this stone, in order to enter the great adventure of individuation, the inner journey. Today I am convinced that the destiny (or fate) of our western culture depends upon this (or it?)...."

I think this is the sense of what she is saying, at any rate (I am assuming here that the word 'Kutur' in the quotation is actually 'Kultur' ).

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.....

(woops - I don't know yet how to place a quotation!)

....

K

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Post jumping the boat and ending the 9/1(0) loop !
Hey Chris/Remo/Michael/All :idea:

Checked out that bizarre web link (from Chris, above). The world has gone mad in their search for a scapegoat and I guess the number 11 is it! But of course, the number 11 is the big secret, no? No wonder they are going berserk. '11' is DA'ATH, the a-causal void. But a void is not 'BAD'. That is just our fear of DEATH speaking there --- the fear of Da'ath??? Furthermore, 9 is linked to 11 alright. 9 could be a true transition, THE natural end, as with the 'Death' card in the Tarot, BUT we are not allowing it to be that (which would be ultimately helpful) - we just keep going back again to 10, and resetting the same old pattern...

I was thinking about this because I have had several dreams in which I could not get to the number 11. In the dream, I was not trying to do so, but it became apparent that I was stuck at 9 and 10 (the elevator motif). I would have to describe the dream. If anyone wants, I can do that. It was quite remarkable - actually, there were 2 dreams like this for the past 2 nights in a row to go along with our forum discussion.

Anyway, I was thinking that the thing is that we want to get to number 11 DIRECTLY from the number 9 now, completely bypassing number 10, (which, if we went back there, would just set the old pattern up again...) So what we WANT, on the best level possible, without war or terrorist acts as a mere projection of the inner process (which so many will not attend to), IS exactly the 9/11! Wow. Now THIS sounds heretical. People would think this was insane. But it is on a DIFFERENT level that I am talking about this process... (you were all touching on this aspect before in your various different replies...)

So - it is alot like the idea that we would 'ascend' from this nutty world and go someplace else that allows for the harmony of the coniunctio to occur in actuality. If we therefore could bypass the "9 and onward again to 10 (which is 1 again)", then it would be like we had 'skipped' the old pattern and reset our 'clocks'. WE would then be going direct from 9 to 11. In this way, 11 becomes the new number 1, instead of just the number 2 again and again (which is the trick of the neo-platonists maybe -the purely causal thing?!). We then arrive at the higher octave of the number one' - a new beginning! Is this too absurd? In this model, it is like we would not reincarnate again onto/into this timeline, this problemmatic earth plane (the number 1 through to number 9 loop), but go directly to number 11, another plane entirely, a higher harmonic of this earth plane. WE would 'ascend' like this....

... just digesting... !

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Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:55 am
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kristin wrote:
.....

(woops - I don't know yet how to place a quotation!)

....

K


You click on the button "quote" below right in the post concerned. Then you delete the sentences you do not need. If you look at all that in the Preview (button below your mask you enter the text you'd like to post), you see the quoted text in a blue rectangle. You can add your text then.

You can also do it yourself. The syntax is always [quote.] ... text ... [/quote.].

I added a "." , otherwise it would transform the whole into the text in the rectangle. Thus write it without "."

Bold is [b.] ... text ... [/b.] (also without a ".")

Italic is [i.] ... text ... [/i.] (dito)

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:48 am
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kristin wrote:
I understand very much what you mean about your son, and what his life will be in this different world of 2012 (plus or minus...). But - was it Einstein in Pauli's dream who said that this matter would BECOME stable eventually? Could it not be that we can somehow be equal to this new energy and thus 'subvert' it into a new creative era, instead of seeing the breakdown of everything? There are so many ideas about all of this in my head that it has been spinning for days.


Yes, you are completely right. There is a solution, and "Einstein" knew it. Of course the Einstein of Pauli's dream, which is not the real Einstein. This symbol means also a new causal world which comes after the acausal quantum leap. Thus we should imagine the process as

Quote:
QUATERNITY -> SEAL OF SOLOMON -> NEW QUATERNITY


OR

Quote:
CAUSAL WORLD -> ACAUSAL QUANTUM LEAP -> NEW CAUSAL WORLD


This is what happens since 1945, happens now and will happen in the near future.

The more people follow this process consciously and introvertedly, the better the chance for the survival of our beautyful world.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:55 am
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Post Re: an idea for the translation of the MLvF quotation
kristin wrote:
Quote:
(I am assuming here that the word 'Kutur' in the quotation is actually 'Kultur' ).


yes, it should be Kultur. I added your translation above.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:57 am
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kristin wrote:
This information becomes more and more intense! I understand the complexity of explaining it to the layperson now, especially using English, which could be very hard work, but here you have made a really good description of the entire process. Thanks, Remo. I am sure I need to repeat the reading of this material over and over until I REALLY get it 'under my skin' so to speak. This must be true of everyone.


Yes, the whole thing is complex. I needed 33 years and tons of archetypal dreams to come to an understanding of all this.

A Hermetic alchemist would however immediately have understood all this. He/she was still in the wholistic worldview, in which one knows that what happens in one radioactive atom has happened everywhere in the universe ...

It is this holistic microcosm/macrocosm relationship we do not believe in anymore today. And if, most people generalize without a really understanding, like all these esoteric people who talk of a new holism. This is why I propose that we should learn to observe these processes in oneselves, and I call them the "inner quantum leaps" or the "singular inner radioactive decays". Clarice and Eduard gave us two examples of how it could work.

Remo

PS: It was this conflict between the Hermetic alchemist Robert Fludd and Johannes Kepler Wolfgang Pauli was so intensely interested in (see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_f ... ync.htm#a3 and http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/platinf ... p3.htm#431 ). With the mathematization of science Kepler began this "cutting in pieces" of the world. Fludd became incredibly furious about this and shouted very much against Kepler. But since both did not know what quantum physics knows today, ie the possibility of acausal processes, the mechanistic model of Kepler/Newton won first. Now however, we are at the end of this mechanistic worldview and should realize that the psychophysical world is activated. Already the Cabbalist Isaac Luria (1534-1572) realized intuitively the solution:

When God created the ten-fold tree of the Sefiroth -- a gnostic image of the Anthropos (God-man) -- only the first three Sefiroth were strong enough to absorb the Divine Light.

The rest were too weak and broke whereby they were swallowed by the demonic forces and matter. With this disintegration of the Anthropos A STATE OF NON-REDEMPTION OF MAN AND GOD was created. Therefore man has the challenge of the so-called 'tikkun', the restitution of the Anthropos (God-man), ie the living universe in his wholeness.

IN THIS WAY EVERY HUMAN BEING ASSISTS THE GODHEAD WITH THE REVERSAL OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD'S CREATION

When we contemplate the disaster of today's world, the thought could come that such a method could be the greatest and very last attempt to rescue mankind.

Carl G. Jung was excited about this idea of Luria's Kabbalah. He realized in it a mystical correspondence to his individuation process, discovered in empirical experience.

He writes in a letter: 'HERE THE THOUGHT ARISES FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT MAN MUST HELP GOD TO REPAIR THE HARM WHICH CREATION HAS DONE. FOR THE FIRST TIME THE COSMIC RESPONSIBILITY OF MAN IS APPRECIATED.' "

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:30 am
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Post Re: jumping the boat and ending the 9/1(0) loop !
kristin wrote:
Anyway, I was thinking that the thing is that we want to get to number 11 DIRECTLY from the number 9 now, completely bypassing number 10, (which, if we went back there, would just set the old pattern up again...) So what we WANT, on the best level possible, without war or terrorist acts as a mere projection of the inner process (which so many will not attend to), IS exactly the 9/11! Wow. Now THIS sounds heretical. People would think this was insane. But it is on a DIFFERENT level that I am talking about this process... (you were all touching on this aspect before in your various different replies...)


Interesting take on 9/11. I agree that we are beginning to (finally) break free from the cycle. As one can plainly see from observing anything in nature, everything is cyclical, and we seem to be afraid of the void that really doesn't exist because nothing is nothing. We are afraid of death even though we see that through death, rebirth is possible. Could this be a parallel to the Self? By allowing it to die within us, we are also allowing a new birth to occur. When I look back and see how the "Ancients" lived, I can't help but feel that they knew their place in this universe moreso than us materialistic, always on the move, easily distracted modern forgetters. And we look at them with such condescending disrespect. Why? Because they didn't have the technology that we do today? I don't see how we can do this when we can't even figure out how the pyramids were really constructed! If history has anything to teach, it is that even it is cyclical. So, perhaps by breaking this cycle of insisting on 'technological' growth, we will expand our conscious through spiritual growth. Maybe then people will be able to see what really matters.

I was just thinking today how horrible it must feel to die without some idea of what lies ahead. And what a dreadful burden it must be to assume there is a so-called void. Even Jung says it is the responsibility of every man to create some myth of what awaits them. It honestly bugs the hell out of me to observe people running around worrying about the most mundane details of their lives, and when the subject of death enters their mind, they just let out a sigh and move on with their self-expediated journey to the inevitable.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to do it. :shock:

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Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:55 am
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Post Re: jumping the boat and ending the 9/1(0) loop !
kristin wrote:
Checked out that bizarre web link (from Chris, above). The world has gone mad in their search for a scapegoat and I guess the number 11 is it! But of course, the number 11 is the big secret, no? No wonder they are going berserk. '11' is DA'ATH, the a-causal void. But a void is not 'BAD'. That is just our fear of DEATH speaking there --- the fear of Da'ath??? Furthermore, 9 is linked to 11 alright. 9 could be a true transition, THE natural end, as with the 'Death' card in the Tarot, BUT we are not allowing it to be that (which would be ultimately helpful) - we just keep going back again to 10, and resetting the same old pattern...
]

The Sufis, the Islamic mystics, have the wonderful proverb:

Die before you die!

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:27 am
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Post Re: jumping the boat and ending the 9/1(0) loop !
kristin wrote:
I was thinking about this because I have had several dreams in which I could not get to the number 11. In the dream, I was not trying to do so, but it became apparent that I was stuck at 9 and 10 (the elevator motif). I would have to describe the dream. If anyone wants, I can do that. It was quite remarkable - actually, there were 2 dreams like this for the past 2 nights in a row to go along with our forum discussion.


Yes, open a new thread with your dream(s)

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:29 am
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o.k. guys, i'll open the thread with my dreams tomorrow. see what comes tonight, if anything... (can i just post again here? that 's what I'll do and you can move it if that's needed).

thanks for all the explanations regarding 'the quaternity through the seal and then to the new quaternity' and so on, rEmo. very much appreciated -and all for free -!- amazing.

do you think there might be a new symbol for the new quaternity? has anyone ever had a dream about a new symbol? i remember reading in tarot esoterica (paul foster case, i think) that there is an essential 'cube of space', which he tried to figure in to his original tarot ideal. i think it is from the egyptian mystery cults.

'die before you die', also the saying of the lakota sioux i believe. my favourite (very scary!).

have a good day - :!:

k

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Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:52 am
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