UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Tree Dream 
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:35 pm
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Post Tree Dream
Hello to all,

I am happy to see the forum up and running again. Here is a dream I had recently:

March 9, 2006

A very large tree was in my house. My house looked a lot like my grandparents’ house except more modern and slightly larger. Logically the tree should not have fit in the house, but somehow it did. At first the tree was laying down but later it was standing up in the centre of the kitchen. (I’d say it would have taken three of me, hands extended, to encircle the trunk and as for the height, at least three times the height of an average room.) Sitting beside the tree it was like the ceiling would logically have to be open because it was so tall but when I looked up, ceiling and tree reached way up.

Associations:

“A very large tree was in my house.” The tree for me represents a spiritual connection. The tree of life, I suppose. I often used a tree for meditation purposes; I would imagine myself the tree.

“My house looked a lot like my grandparents’ house…” I’ve always associated the house with the self, the personality. In many ways I am like my grandparents’ house, and more modern; not sure about larger.

“Logically the tree should not have fit in the house, but somehow it did.” Logic is not in this dream house, therefore Eros self?

“At first the tree was laying down…” The tree was uprooted, laid down, but it still appeared vibrant and majestic – alive. Could this laid down tree be an image of BCI?

“…Later it was standing up…” While writing this part of associations I was reminded of my drawing of BCI, or the world beyond dreams, the drawing of a girl sleeping and the same girl standing and awake beside a tree! So the tree laid down is the sleeping “me,” the tree standing up is the “me” in the beyond.

Image

“…In the centre of the kitchen…” The kitchen is where we cook and eat and gather. It is the centre of nourishment. There is no food in the dream therefore it is spiritual nourishment.

“Sitting beside the tree it was like the ceiling would logically have to be open because it was so tall but when I looked up, ceiling and tree reached way up.” This sense of illogical height/size is exactly what I have felt before just prior to entering BCI, (or other meditations.) I have felt this spontaneously, even as a young child. It is a sense of perception, different than usual; it is like stepping out of the usual perception. I’ve also experienced it with other perceptions like near and far, or dark and light. I wonder if it is always to do with opposites. Either way it feels like seeing from the outside in, or other side in.

Clarice


Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:20 pm
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Post Hello Clarice
Hello Clarice

What a dream you present us as your debut! It is just phantastic. I will show later that it combines shamanism with quantum physical priciples.

(Don't worry, it is not as complicated as it sounds).

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:49 am
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Post Re: Tree Dream
Clarice wrote:
At first the tree was laying down but later it was standing up in the centre of the kitchen.

“…Later it was standing up…” While writing this part of associations I was reminded of my drawing of BCI, or the world beyond dreams, the drawing of a girl sleeping and the same girl standing and awake beside a tree! So the tree laid down is the sleeping “me,” the tree standing up is the “me” in the beyond.

Image



I know a healer who during healing always sees exactly this image: His patient lays down (as in reality during the therapy), but a "double" of her/him stands besides the couch, and he knows that this is the patient's body in the Beyond. He feels that healing energy comes from the Beyond into his hands, and like this "his" healing happens. He feels himself as a mediator of this healing energy.

Quantum physics has the idea of the so-called wave function. This is a mathematical equation and symbolizes a potential world, not yet incarnated into the real world of the here and now. Then the so-called "quantum leap" happens, the acausal breakdown of the wave function. Since it is acausal or indeterministic, in the single case one cannot say when it will happen. This acausal collapse of the wave function corresponds to the incarnation of the material particle out of the potential state of the wave function.

The wave function is a mathematical equation of a very specific sort: It is an addition of so-called imaginary terms. The sum of these terms represents all the possible, but only potential states in which the wave function can collapse. If it collapses, one and only one of these terms becomes real (and is not imaginary anymore) and represents the incarnation of one specific particle out of the potentiality of the many. This transformation is represented as a rotation of 90 degrees, i.e., a right angle !!!

In my interpretation the quantum physical wave function is the unus mundus. The rotation of 90 degrees means therefore the incarnation of real "new life", "life essence", of the alchemical Alexipharmakum (antidote) for the disease out of the unus mundus.

You and the healer I know have therefore exactly the same inner perception (= introverted bodily sensation) of the acausal incarnation process as physics has of the extraverted process of the incarnation of physical matter. The difference is that in your case the process happens on the psychophysical level, i.e., on the level of life.

Thus I would say that the tree laying down is the meditating you, the tree standing up is the you in the Beyond -- in connection with the healing energy coming out of the unus mundus. (Or contrarywise, who knows).

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:34 am
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Post 
I've moved the thread to here since the dream has to do with the unus mundus and the coniunctio

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:40 am
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Post Re: Tree Dream
Eduard


Last edited by Eduard Klarer on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:25 pm
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Post 
Cher Eduard,

I thank you very much for you post... It just talks to me...

I remember once, I had a woman working with me... She had fallen deeply into herself and it was hard to even have her talk. I knew that on the inner side I was carrying more than a bit of her load.

And then I dreamt that I was falling down very deep, down to an impossible level of depth. There, in the typical light of the other side world, I knew that I had to dance for her what was called "the dance of the shaman" . It was said that if I missed a single step everything would be lost, including me. I was tense of course but let my body find the proper steps by itself, in fact each place where I put my foot was like a big leaf. I realised that things were going fine then and eventually returned to our world...

I wanted to share that with you...

Very best,

Roger


Last edited by Roger Faglin on Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:25 pm
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Post Tree symbolism
If someone is interested in the tree symbolism, I recommend Eliade, Mircea: Le chamanisme et les techniques archaiques de l'exstase, Payot, Paris, 1951, section "L'arbre du monde" (or similar) in Chapter VII , Chamanisme et cosmologie (or similar), also available in German and in English (Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy). In German pp. 259.

Further: Eliade, Mircea: Traité d'histoire des religions, in German: Die Religionen und das Heilige, §§ 95-124. I guess the book is also translated into English, and also there equipped with the same §§. I do however not find the title of the English translation.

If someone -- also a guest -- would like to summarize these §§, we all would surely all appreciate this very much, since there the essence of the tree symbolism is collected.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:32 pm
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Post # 1 and # 2
Dear Eduard

Thank you so much for sharing with us your experiences as a gifted healer! For me the very asthonishing thing is the resemblance with Carl Jung's # 1 and # 2. However, you experience this phenomenon as a healer of physical disease, Jung tried to transform it into his theory of the (Logos) ego and the (Logos) Self. For my taste your experience is closer to us ordinary people who just try to stay or become healthy. In my ms. I am writing just now I describe that there is something deeper than Jung's Self -- the unus mundus, which is also physical, psychophysical perhaps, and this deeper region is dominated by the feminine principle of the Eros (and not of the Logos). It seems that the famous depth psychologist did not yet find -- he confesses this himself! -- what you express with your experience, the (second) coniunctio or unio corporalis ...

I know that I make the Jungians see red with this statment -- but my name is my fate [Roth = red...]

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:58 pm
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Post Two Persons
Hello Eduard and all,

I can relate to the experience of the two. What I find odd though is that my mother has encountered the other me in her dreams.

Back to the Tree dream I thought I would share the events leading up to the dream:

I had an eventful day previous to this dream. A friend came over to visit; she has been diagnosed with breast cancer just these past few weeks. Already she has had her breast removed and now she is waiting pathology reports. She hovers between trying to beat this and succumbing to it. I told her about this being an important time for her to reach inward to her inner self. I told her of my experience with a lump on my foot and how by imaging my "pure inner self," it went away. She left with hope.

On and off throughout the day I had a pain in my rib. Later that night I realized it was swollen. My mother, having been there when I spoke to my friend, said that it was ironic I should have a swollen rib after talking to her. I went to bed with my painful and swollen rib and had a very fitful sleep. I woke up often and when I finally fell into a deep sleep I had the Tree Dream.

Clarice


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Post Re: Two Persons
Eduard


Last edited by Eduard Klarer on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:15 am
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Post Re: # 1 and # 2
Remo Roth wrote:
It seems that the famous depth psychologist did not yet find -- he confesses this himself! -- what you express with your experience, the (second) coniunctio or unio corporalis ...


Perhaps I should relativate this statement a litte. As an experience Carl Jung found the Eros Self, but he was not yet able to integreate it into his theory. As you know, he confessed to Wolfgang Pauli:

Quote:
"The problem of the coniunctio must be kept for the future; it is more than I can cope with, and my heart reacts if I exert myself too much along these lines." (Atom and Archetype, The Pauli/Jung Letters 1932 – 1958, ed. CA Meier, Springer, Berlin, 2001, p. 101


On the contrary he wrote in his Memories, Dreams, Reflections:

Quote:
"At times I feel as if I am spread out over the landscape and inside things, and am myself living in every tree, in the splashing of the waves, in the clouds and the animals that come and go, in the procession of the seasons ... here is space for the spaceless kingdom of the world's and the psyche's hinterland." MDR, p. 252


The trouble is -- as I show exactly now in my ms. The Holy Wedding -- that he, when he began to study medicine and the philosophy of Nietzsche in 1898, began to identify with what I call the Logos ego and did later not realize that there is a complementary Eros ego. The former experiences dreams and synchronicities, the latter the "BCI, or the world beyond dreams" (Clarice).

However, during his séances with Helly, which he did first with the planchette (or Ouija board), he was yet in this Eros state of the ego, in which what I call the "creation by (mere) observation" happens. After 1898 however, when Carl Jung entered the clinical semesters of medicine, he changed to what I call the "creation by cognition". The latter is the creation aspect of the Logos, the former of the Eros.

See also http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... 3_e.htm#53

Remo

PS: Michael, this post is especially for you.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:28 am
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Yes, I noticed it calling out to me before I read your last line.

So how does one come to understand the Eros?

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Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:35 am
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Post Understanding the Eros consciousness?
Michael

I really don't know if one can understand the Eros consciousness. Mostly one just falls into it, exactly in the spontaneous moments the world soul would like to create something new.

Perhaps you can ask the two of us who experience for the moment the Eros ego most, Clairce and Eduard.

As you surely have seen, my duty is it to describe phenomenologically and out of the Logos ego what the Eros ego could be. But I am conscious about the fact that this is of course a Neoplatonic way of looking at the subject. However, we all and especially educated people are almost identical with the Logos. Thus it seems that my task is it to try to show them that there exists a complementary consciousness. As you can imagine, it is a very hard task.

Thus, I guess the best way to understand what the Eros ego is, is to listen to the people who experience it just now. Clarice as well as Eduard showed it with the examples they had the courage to post. And as you see in both posts, it is a deeply moving phenomenon.

If you ask me, I would not hesitate to say that this is a modern form of mysticism -- independent of any religious confession, be it Christianism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism or Hinduism. Perhaps the beginning of a unifying world religion? Who knows!

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:56 am
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Michael wrote:
Yes, I noticed it calling out to me before I read your last line.

So how does one come to understand the Eros?


Understanding is something that may eventually happen, but first experience has to come.

Observation in this deep introverted state opens the door to "creatio continua".

But then "understanding" is in a way a very personal matter, and talking about the phenomena is certainly one of the hardest things I know.

However we are at a time when we need to share about them, we need t make this effort. Consciousness has a big part to play, even if I am not talking about the too narrow "Logos consciousness".

Our exchange with Eduard is in a way typical. For my part, I was told by a dream "to put some red into the forum". I could not reply to Eduard in a different way than the one I used, that is by sharing some exterience of mine, using my "red" = introverted feeling (Hey ROTH!) :wink:

see what I mean?

Best

Roger

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THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:56 am
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When I first dampered in the Ouija type stuff, I asked myself what religion I would assume and concluded mysticism. Interesting how the major religions all share that aspect, though they seem to shun it and regard it as heathen or devilry.

What else would fall into this Eros consciousness? It seems their experiences are not so much waking but while they are in a dreamstate. Is it possible to carry the Eros in waking life? And if so, would this be a possible source for symptoms of schizophrenia?

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Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:00 am
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Michael wrote:
When I first dampered in the Ouija type stuff, I asked myself what religion I would assume and concluded mysticism. Interesting how the major religions all share that aspect, though they seem to shun it and regard it as heathen or devilry.


Yes, seen from the religion of the theologists mysticism is always very close to devilry. See for example the trouble Eckehard had with the church. How many so-called witches burnt by dogmatic theologists were mystics? I guess very many of them. Today one is a witch (or a devil) if one suggests that there is another world, the unus mundus, out of which a new, acausal creation can happen. This creation is not controllable by the masculine will (and the masulinized will of most educated women -- especially female Jungians). Thus it is dangerous, devilish, to be annihilated. This is what they tried with me in 1982 at the so-called C.G. Jung Institute in Zurich -- however, I'm still living ;-)

Quote:
What else would fall into this Eros consciousness? It seems their experiences are not so much waking but while they are in a dreamstate. Is it possible to carry the Eros in waking life? And if so, would this be a possible source for symptoms of schizophrenia?


As I have said above, the young Jung had his séances with his cousin Helly. How many psychiatrists would diagnose Helly today as schizophrenic? I don't know but think there would be many. Jung diagnosed her as a "somnambulistic hysteric" (and some years later Sabina Spielrein as "psychotic hysteria"), since when he entered the Burghölzli, the psychiatric clinic of Zurich University, he became a complete materialist and rationalist. For such a person all these phenomena are psychotic -- of course also all the prophets of the Old Testament, for example. Why not Jesus Christ, who behaved also in a very strange manner, like walking on the water, increasing (?) of bread, healing of sick people without a licence as a doctor :evil:

The task of the future is to learn to distinguish between psychosis and these novel phenomena. A psychologist in the Burghölzli began to do this with the help of a differential diagnosis of UFO encounter people. The bosses stoped him...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:11 am
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Post 
Michael wrote:
What else would fall into this Eros consciousness? It seems their experiences are not so much waking but while they are in a dreamstate.


Yes, the Eros consciousness is some sort of a dreamstate. But it is not, as Jung thought, only an "abaissement du niveau mental", i.e., a slackening of the tensity of consciousness. It is a different consciousness, in which one abandons thinking consciously and relates on the other three functions Jung defined: (Introverted) feeling, vegetative sensation (i.e., sensing the subtle body) and intuition. This is the state of the mystic. And it has at least the same right to live as the Logos ego.

It is the state UFO enounter and especially UFO abduction people fall into unconsciously -- and experience without realizing it the unus mundus.

I guess that James Dean is still so present in the world of our youth, since he lived in this state (but was not able to come out of it, when it was necessary).

For most Jungians this man is a so-called puer aeternus, of course in the negative sense of the word. The interesting phenomenon is that Marie-Louise von Franz, approaching the end of her life, got a very positive attitude to this archetype.

Quote:
Very much later in life Marie-Louise von Franz came to realize, in an active imagination, that this new Godhead did not have to do with Wotan, but rather with the puer aeternus, the eternal youth, the ever youthful creator god.

In a troubling dream at Christmas time right before her nineteenth birthday, and which she mentions in her book C. G. Jung: His Myth in Our Time,

She sees in a chamber in the middle of the earth, "the countenance of God looking so terribly sad that no person can bear it."

This dream also deals with the birth of a new god, which at the end she experiences as the birth of Aphrodite rising out of the sea. She herself interpreted this birth of a feminine godhead as the manifestation of the Self, because it was her own dream, the dream of a woman.
Source: http://journeyintowholeness.org/news/nl ... ulogy.shtm




The Eros goddess together with the Eros ego (the puer).

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed May 09, 2012 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:28 am
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Post Re: Tree Dream
Eduard Klarer wrote:
Quote:
And
to finish with an experience on the 03.03.06:
I was in the train back home and felt also as if I had caught a cold. Suddenly I felt, realized, that my body fluid is flowing, but – it was not my usual body fluid (water, blood) but the fluid of three different trees. It startet first with the fluid of a birch (tree), after this of an Arve (I do not know the translation into English. It’s a tree we have up here in the mountains, 1800 meters over seaside) and as third a fir (tree). And all these were running (one after the other) through my body. Arriving at home there was nothing from a cold or any sick, bad feeling left.




I woke up sick this morning. :oops:
How can I heal myself like this? Or how can Me #2 heal Me #1? :lol:

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Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:17 am
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Holy Moly! This is incredible!

So, I woke up this morning around 8 feeling relatively the same. Then I went back to bed but didn't feel like I could get back to sleep.

I just lied there thinking and listening to the radio. Somehow I fell to sleep for another couple hours, but I really don't see how I could have because the last thing I remember was being wide awake under the covers.

Anywho, I had a dream in which 2 weird kids called me saying they were going to come get me. My family left the house (my old house if this is of any significance?) to go to the shooting range and took the guns and ammunition with them. (I used to target shoot.) Anyway, as soon as they left, I saw a red car with 2 kids pull up. I called the cops and read the license plate number. This number had several 'V's in it and a giant 'V' on the back (trunk). I think this is representative of a virus. The kids eventually broke into the house and I couldn't hold them back. At one pointk, I was in my old room and literally holding the door shut with my body weight when they broke in. I asked them what they were going to do. They didn't really respond. I told them if they just rang the doorbell and asked if they could come in, I would've said yes. They responded with a laugh like 'oh really?' HAHAHA, considering these guys were little viruses!

I went to a closet in the house and pulled out a shotgun the family had left behind. It didn't have ammo in it, but I tried to scare them off with it and they realized that when I accidentaly pulled the trigger there was no fire. So they pulled out their guns (those cap guns that just give off a bang) and started firing. I ran downstairs and saw that both the cop and my family had arrived. I asked my dad for the pistol, fully loaded. I ran back upstairs and capped those guys in the arse!

I wake up and I feel so much better! Is this for real?! This is amazing!

Obviously, the family/guns/ammo represent my immune system or ability to fend off the virus. But now I'm back, baby! I can't get over this. I love it!

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Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:48 pm
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"V" also venus ?


Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:39 pm
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Tom, Michael, all -

"V" the downward pointing triangle of Eros consciousness, Venus -?

Seemed that you didn't like those weird kids though - hmm - .......

What else springs to heart?

wild -

K.

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Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:31 am
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I did recently see V for Vendetta...
Not sure how that would make sense for this dream's interpretation, though.

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Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:51 am
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I'd like to add that I'm back to 100% health. I hadn't felt that sick for a while, and I usually don't recover so quickly. I don't know what happened, but I'd like to make a shout out to the unus mundus. 8)

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Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:55 am
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Post The Healing Sleep
Michael wrote:
I just lied there thinking and listening to the radio. Somehow I fell to sleep for another couple hours, but I really don't see how I could have because the last thing I remember was being wide awake under the covers.


Perhaps you entered the state of the Eros ego first, and then you had the dream. Further, Eduard, the healer, was perhaps with you, since you asked him for help before.

Your experience corresponds with mine that a BCI (in your case perhaps an unconscious one) in which one first enters the Eros ego and then sleeps in and dreams has a healing effect. Remember the healing sleep ("Heilschlaf" in German) in the tradition of the old Greeks. As much as I understand, this was not just sleeping, but first entering the Eros ego, and this seemed to direct the dreams into the "right" direction.

Quote:
Anywho, I had a dream in which 2 weird kids called me saying they were going to come get me. My family left the house (my old house if this is of any significance?) to go to the shooting range and took the guns and ammunition with them. (I used to target shoot.) Anyway, as soon as they left, I saw a red car with 2 kids pull up. I called the cops and read the license plate number. This number had several 'V's in it and a giant 'V' on the back (trunk). I think this is representative of a virus. The kids eventually broke into the house and I couldn't hold them back. At one pointk, I was in my old room and literally holding the door shut with my body weight when they broke in. I asked them what they were going to do. They didn't really respond. I told them if they just rang the doorbell and asked if they could come in, I would've said yes. They responded with a laugh like 'oh really?' HAHAHA, considering these guys were little viruses!

I went to a closet in the house and pulled out a shotgun the family had left behind. It didn't have ammo in it, but I tried to scare them off with it and they realized that when I accidentaly pulled the trigger there was no fire. So they pulled out their guns (those cap guns that just give off a bang) and started firing. I ran downstairs and saw that both the cop and my family had arrived. I asked my dad for the pistol, fully loaded. I ran back upstairs and capped those guys in the arse!

I wake up and I feel so much better! Is this for real?! This is amazing!


Accordung to my experience, the house or flat in a dream is often the body. Thus, I guess that your interpretation is right. The interesting aspect is that your parents went away. A motif which means that you have to do it alone, but with the means of your father.

Quote:
Obviously, the family/guns/ammo represent my immune system or ability to fend off the virus. But now I'm back, baby! I can't get over this. I love it!


I call this also the "inner UFO". It is an inner healing capacity. The theory behind all this I have described in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#226

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:44 am
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Post House / flat = body
See the house/body parallel in the following picture:

Image

It is an image out of a Hebrew encyclopedia. The little towers are the ears, the windows the eyes, the stomach is the stove (red color!), etc.

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:56 am
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Post Re: Tree Dream
Michael wrote:
I woke up sick this morning. :oops:
How can I heal myself like this? Or how can Me #2 heal Me #1? :lol:


I would say that with the help of the observational state of # 2 (the Eros ego) #4 (the Eros Self) healed your body. #2, your Eros ego observed the coniunctio between #4 and #3, between the queen and the (half dead!) king, the sick body.

#1, the Logos ego -- the conscious ego of the physician (ie traditional medicine) -- did not play any role...

Remo

PS: Tom, if you are here: What do you think about this interpretation?

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:05 am
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Post The Black Madonna in Einsiedeln
And #4 is the Black Madonna in Einsiedeln to whose marriage (!), according to a dream of Marie-Louise von Franz, Carl Jung must come back in the next years.

See http://kaleidoscope-forum.org/talk/viewtopic.php?t=36

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:11 am
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What I'm stressing here is the microcosmic aspect of the healing process. In the comment to her dream:

Quote:
[MLvF] then said that the unconscious was indeed preparing a remedy for the world and a union, to be sure not one "above in the spiritual realm," but a union of above and below, a union of spirit and matter. Very early on the Virgin Mary was thought to be "the earth;" the Black Madonna was a nature goddess.”

[Source: http://journeyintowholeness.org/news/nl ... logy2.shtm ]


MLvF stresses the macrocosmic aspect of the healing of the world ...


Quote:
"And yet the union comes about in a Christian framework, which she (Mary-Louise) never could accept. But still the dream filled her with the highest happiness."


It is to say that the Black Madonnas are not typically Christian! Christianity repressed exactly this black aspect. Everyone remembers the burning of witches. This was exactly the repressen of the Black Madonna. These forces were not controllable by the Neoplatonic priests, thus they demonized them.

[Neoplatonism = The good spirit must be freed from the evil matter; black = matter, evil, devilish.]

Today the "priests of science" [ and most psychotherapists and psychiatrists] demonize these forces -- or better: ridiculize them. But as MLvF's dream shows, they come now anyhow back, ie in the UFO phenomenology, which is in fact the phenomenology of the Black Madonna [There are many UFO sightings together with an apparition of the Holy Mary]. This is why I'm talking of the UFO in the belly, or of the "inner radioactivity". By the way, I have created the former term on the background of the symbolism I have found in the dreams and the BCI's of a HIV positive woman ...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:29 am
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Post 
remo-

my gut intuition is that this interpretation is on the mark

I use intuition as a practicing modern/western MD too, but it is frustrating that treatment just at best restores/maintains a stus quo (which is what is typically expected).

Transformation is resisted/obstructed in the vast majority of cases with the modern tools I am trained in.


Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:59 pm
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should be "status quo", not sure why unconscious thought otherwise.


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Post 
tom.guerry wrote:
I use intuition as a practicing modern/western MD too, but it is frustrating that treatment just at best restores/maintains a stus quo (which is what is typically expected).

Hi Tom

My dictionary has "stuss" = rubbish. Interpreted in a positive way -- at least out of my sight -- couldn't it be that the "stuss" is "status quo", which means that medicine should change and accept the view of the healer?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:16 pm
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