UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 the psyque dream. 
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 21
Location: Alicante, Spain
Post the psyque dream.
Hello everybody!

I found this forum about a week ago and I want to put my first dream to talk about it.

The dream is only an image and a voice.
There are two columns and above them, resting in them an old parchment tracing semicircle. This is a close space and outside it all is contented into a square. Above the parchment, in his highest place and in the half way between the columns there is an small square, and inside it a tree with great roots that connect it whit the inner place below. The colours of the inner place and the outer place are distinct, maybe complementary. I drew it as blue and green, but also can substitude one of them as red also.


Associations:

I call it the psyque dream because is really an schematic view of the human psyque. The inner place is the unconscius and the outside are the conscience and the outer world. The conscience is a tree because is always growing, like the trees: experiences, learnings, skills, knowledges, unconscious material... It is the conscious mind always growing. The great roots are the connection whith the unconscious, strong here due to my introverted being.
In the parchment there were some words in an old language, but as I not talk it, I don not wrote anything. In the moment of dreaming I know there is a message in it but then I forgot it. What? For knowing this we must ear the voice talking me: You have to find your meaning with the Analitical Psychology. Well the true word was INSIDE the Anali... and not with the... but I suppouse it would be the same. Maybe not.

The roots of the dream are in the day before. I am re-reading the book: Symbols of transformation and in the chapter of the hymn of the creator, Jung explains the reason of the christianity to exist and oppose it to the religious-like dream of the analised. He Talks about the libido and the constellation complex of the woman showing material that use to know related with the religious experience. Here talk about her repression that cause a replacing symbol> a derivative image that is nothing to do with the religion other than the chain-analogy: the singer--erotic impulse--earthly father--the stars singing--the sun and fire of God. Jung talk of it like an ideal creation, but does not show it as religous dream -- for him, a religous dream would be a pure unconscious creation as would be an answer of the unconscious to a conscious problem as it was the answer that was ---in those times of excess and blood thirst in the later centuries of the roman empire---the ascetic relligions: Christianity and Mithraisme.
Later i began thinking of it because of the dificultted added to know for a not jungian analist like me when a dream shows a true archetypal revelation or when it shows a human complex (opposites to imago or archetype) Later, as an answer I wrote in my thoughts notebook an intuitive dialectics about the difference between a false laugh and the great laugh meaning with them a pair example of differences of a shadow item and an archetypal images.
Well, sure the unconscious would thought: He wants a true archetypal revelation?, I am going to make one for him, if you allow me this anthropomorphysm.
i am sure than what I have to find is the content of the parchment. it seems a long life way reasearch.


Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:34 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 782
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Post Re: the psyque dream.
Sergio - it is an interesting dream and suggests a portal between the unconsscious and the conscious as you suggest. The cryptic language only partly understood is language of the unconscious which becomes more clear in time possibly. As the phrase we see through a glass darkly but on the dharma dream path all will become clear: Was said that God talked to Moses in dreams then God talked to Moses direct. Would be nice to see the picture of the dream. The language part brougth to mind a dream I had when I married 30 years ago: I was going into a "church basement" with cryptic language above the door like the writing on the rings in those HObbit tales. I was greeted at the doorway by a woman in an apron. "Welcome she said. You are late for supper." I was almost 40 and it was rather late in life for this initial journey to a deeper level of committment to consciousness and actually, life. The "church basement" represented entry to the unconscious with anima guide. It was the beginning of a ten year dream cycle.


Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:55 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 21
Location: Alicante, Spain
Post Re: the psyque dream.
Hello Bernie and thank you for your suggestions.
The dream you talk about is very similar and gives me more focus in the detail of the pillars that you usually find in a church or temple. I didn't thought that lost message was not in a conscience language. I was sure that had to be words about a highly symbolic meaning of the psyque, wrote in latin or greek but not a dream language itself, if you now what I am traying to say. Now come to my mind the alchemical images where there is a body and several small pictures inside circles. (Note: I have not started the study of the Jung writings about alchemy yet, but several dreams point to it, slowly.)
I will put here the paint.
It's curious that you mention the anima, because I never had got clearly the place of that imago in the human life. My first personal writting and reflections - six years agom; I am 36 - were about the opposites and the comeback to my life of the concept of God as the union of them (Not any god, but the idea of God - The jungian Self) Because of my lonely readings, Jung was difficult to read and you have to be patient and consistent, but as I am studing Symbols of transformation I also began to read Psychology and Alchemy too, and I finally got a more defined and practical thought about this archetype and his roll in the psyque.
The ten years cycle looks inmense! In the past I was usually constant in wrtting my thoughts about everything, sometimes big dreams I had, but only from small time I put all my dreams, and you know... one dreams calls another and everyday I remember and think-write about my dreams. This is changing the understanding of the World: the outside and the inside, even years after of reading Jung. It was like that if you don't focus in your own dreams it 's like you do not anythink. You can have a natural introverted personality, intuition, an intellect guide thanks to reading ..., but that was nothing without the real experience of the confrontation with your Unconscious. Now I know why Jung said that this confrontation can be dangerous. You have to do it carefully, if not, this can affect badly your social behaviour and all your life.

Sergio.


Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:01 pm
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 21
Location: Alicante, Spain
Post Re: the psyque dream.
Here is the picture of the dream. I drew it quicly, so isn't very good, the cirscle seems an elliptic, but I think it serves.

One association I dind't wrote the other day is that it remain me a blazon.


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Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:06 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 782
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Post Re: the psyque dream.
Sergio - The arch is often matched in a public space in opposition to a church steeple at the other end, a yin and yang and as the steeple suggests phalus, the arch is a gynechological portal - on Ile de la Cite the great church with the rose glass has three exquisite gnecological portals (the Three Sisters) - when I first noticed this I went to a bunch of old books of German, French and European churches and at the top of the portal was an item - sometimes a saint flying outward or the Christ flying out of the top - the element is clitoris and here it is as the tree in this nice drawing - it would suggest Self or essense of the inner consciousness - the folk lore where i grew up the teen age boys used to refer to clitoris as "the man in the boat" - vulgar perhaps but maybe a perfect suggestion of the Self in the feminine field of psyche.


Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:43 am
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Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 21
Location: Alicante, Spain
Post Re: the psyque dream.
Hello Bernie:

I am impresse with your interpretation. It's good to share dreams! I never thought that it seems a portal of a ancient church. The upper part is always full of sculptures and in the middle always taken up with an image of Christ: the self. Very good associations!!
The last phrase: "the Self in the feminine field of psyche" -- is very deeper for me. I think that is the expression of the wholeness in the feminine side of life. Why? Because The unconscious is nearer the femenine as opposition with the world of the father - consciousness - rationality.
At last, is curious my association that the small tree was the consciousness with his deeper roots to the uncosncious and always growing, but in your association is the Self, the Chirst of the portal. Well I think Jung said that in the ancient world the tree where also treated as God and even the last dweling of the deads was an empty trunk in a forest.
The church's portals seems too an egyptian image of the book of dead, where a God is judging your life and send you to heavens or hell. i think in the portals of gothic churchs you can find also a repressentation of this finall judgement after life: the condemned are on his left side and are devouring by a crocodile. Maybe all this is too appart from the meaning of the dream, and not is jundgement. The voice saying me this words would be treated in the ancient times as a message of God. And I think it is the guide of the anima (the femenine side of the unconscious.)


Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:48 pm
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