The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu May 23, 2019 12:20 am

 [ 6 posts ] 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream 
Author Message

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 170
Location: UK
Post The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream
Hi all,

Sorry I‘ve been away for a while, been caught up in the virtual world.

I had an interesting dream today which contained Tarot symbolism. Specifically it connected The Tower card and The World card.

In the Tower card two figures fall from a lightening struck Tower – ostensibly Adam (self conscious) and Eve (subconscious). The card symbolises (among many meanings) destruction of error.

In my dream I see the Tower card. Instead of the two falling figures I see just one. This I see is the actual central figure of the World card. One small difference – the androgynous dancer of The World card seemed to be an infant.

Thoughts welcome.



Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:27 pm
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 647
Location: Lyon, France
Post Re: The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream

I try to give you an hypothesis even if I am not a specialist of Tarot.


"Maison Dieu" means " House of God" . Maybe we could see with this card the destruction of the Church by the Goddess because the Church can't "produce' the androgynous.

That makes me think of a dream of Jung
As we can read on p. 633 Jung wrote that "God shit ont the Basle Cathedral," and this was "auntified" in "God drop an enormous turd upon it."

There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ( Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw )

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:44 am

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 170
Location: UK
Post Re: The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream
Hi fox,

Good to hear from you again.

I play with the cards sometimes. They seem to work for me too.

Overall I had a good feeling about this dream. I saw it as meaning that the two falling figures of the Tower had united into a single new-born – before they hit the ground. (The new-born did not do so in the dream.)

I highly recommend Paul Foster Case’s book “The Tarot, A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages” for major arcana interpretations.

Case describes the falling figures of the Tower as modes of self-conscious (male) and subconscious (female).

The lightening flash which hits the tower is a bolt of “superconsciousness”. It destroys the error that self-conscious and subconscious are separate from each other, work independently of each other. It is the basis of both.

Generally, the message is that self conscious (everyday reasoning perhaps, be it wise or foolish) modifies and impresses itself upon subconscious. Subconscious then infallibly makes its deductions – be they wise or foolish – and gives these back to you in your own life conditions.

This, I think, ties in with what you say: The Church/Tower of error (devoid of superconsciousness) cannot produce the androgynous.



Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:53 am
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 2920
Images: 5
Location: Weed, California
Post Divine Fire

When I saw the image of the lightning bolt knocking the humans out of the tower of stone I thought of Jung’s amplification on a painting of lightning striking a rock formation which knocks a stone sphere out of its matrix. Like this “divine fire” is connected to initiating individuation and as Fox notes – it knocks one out of containment in the erroneous collective worldview (Tower =’s too high up in the Logos) in order to foster the inner marriage aka the Holy Wedding which is connected to Plato’s androgyne and like this the need to make contact with the ground (read: the feminine principle).
Tarot_Maison_Dieu House of God.jpg
Tarot_Maison_Dieu House of God.jpg [ 22.52 KiB | Viewed 2060 times ]

Plato Androgyne.jpg
Plato Androgyne.jpg [ 31.63 KiB | Viewed 2060 times ]

I amplify with the following quote on divine fire which notes that it comes in various sizes and is a connection to the fire of the Holy Spirit and like this to the alien "Invasion of the World Soul."

Fire Thrown To Earth
This then, leads to the meaning in Revelation of “hurling fire down onto the earth.” Let us note, first of all, that something similar happens in the Book of Ezekiel where Yahweh was making plans to punish Jerusalem by having her conquered by Babylonia. Sitting on his divine throne-chariot, he said to a “man dressed in linen”; “Go in between the wheels below the winged creatures; take a handful of burning coal from between the winged creatures and scatter it over the city” (10:2). We find the same image of “fire falling from heaven” repeated elsewhere. Elijah overcame the false prophets of Baal by calling down divine fire to consume his sacrifice in a ritual competition: and, in that case, the divine energy was at the disposal of the prophet. Yahweh, of course, manifested himself to Moses in the fire of the burning bush. And even Christ announces in the Gospel of Luke, “I have come to bring fire to the earth” (12:49).

Furthermore, the imagery associated with the transpersonal fire has a double aspect, for as we are going to see shortly not only does fire fall out of heaven but also smoke and fire rise up from the Abyss when it's opened up. So that you have got infernal fire and heavenly fire, fire coming from two different directions. But they are both transpersonal fire.

Now this is a very common and important image, because we encounter it in dreams frequently. Fire means affect. To the extent that it is transpersonal affect, it's undifferentiated transpersonal libido that can have its origin either in heaven or hell, and those two aren't so far apart in the psyche, that can somersault from one to the other very easily, they are two manifestations really, of the same phenomena. Now, in dreams, the outstanding example of transpersonal fire of mammoth proportions is a “nuclear explosion;” its magnitude links it to the apocalyptic imagery we are exploring. Smaller versions of this fire are found in the imagery of “lightning.” We have an example of that in the picture series that Jung reproduces in Volume 9.1, his essay on a study in the process of individuation. (See Figure 5.2 from CW 9.1, § 525ff) You may remember that whole series of pictures there, that have many mandala images. In picture number two is a picture of lightening coming down on a rocky landscape, blasting out a sphere from the surrounding rocky hillside. It's an image of blasting an individual psyche out of containment and identification with containment in the matrix. It's the beginning of the individuation process, initiated by the “divine fire,” lightening in this case, and that's all directly relevant to this imagery in Revelation. Edinger, Archetype of the Apocalypse, pp. 81-82.
CW 9.jpg
CW 9.jpg [ 83.53 KiB | Viewed 2060 times ]

affect - To have an influence on or effect a change in: To act on the emotions of; touch or move. To attack or infect, as a disease.

In my material the size of the “divine fire” is often imaged as giving humanity the “middle finger” of a nuclear Apocalypse as seen in the following image – something whose size suggests global regicide. The death of the old ruling king is meant in order to foster the quest for its renewal.
MIDDLE-FINGER-OF-THE-APOCALYPSE.jpg [ 27.6 KiB | Viewed 2060 times ]


Last edited by Gregory Sova on Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:00 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 170
Location: UK
Post Re: The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream
Hi Gregory,

Good to hear from you, and thanks for the elaboration.

D A Hulse in “New Dimensions for the Cube of Space” seems to agree. He describes the the Northern face (The Tower) as indicating a baptism by fire or spiritual awakening and one which leads through the centre of the cube (The World) to the Southern face (The Sun).

The lightening bolt is also the serpent power, kundalini, and the secret fire of the alchemists.

That Kundalini has been bathing my spine for a while. Seems I might be due for a spiritual awakening. Well, I guess that’s something to look forward to!

For interest, a few other dream snippets of recent:

My own voice saying “I am pregnant.”

A voice asking “Who am I?”

Dressing myself in an off-white overgarment. Possibly linen. Possibly hospital type garment.

A paratrooper friend diving from a helicopter (heli = helios = sun?). His chute opened and was in fact six or maybe nine chutes in a hexagonal or other geometrical pattern.

A young woman, skin burnt black like charcoal, pointing me in the direction of a waiting hearse. The back of the hearse was transparent, glass-like.



Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:31 pm

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm
Posts: 170
Location: UK
Post Re: The Tower, The World, Tarot card Dream
I’ll just add this here:

I reviewed this, my above, dream just before sleep. I did so with observation that “a fall” and “descent” are not the same.

I also checked out the astrology for the date, and noted:

Saturn, ruler of Capricorn (The World card) in Scorpio (water)
Mars, ruler of Scorpio (falling figure) in Libra (air)
Venus, ruler of Libra (falling figure) in Capricorn (earth).

Then, 22/12/2015, this dream:

I have joined a small, local astrology group, ostensibly to learn. The class leader is surprised to see me there and suggests I should lead the group. I am confused at this as I only dabble in astrology. He impresses upon me that I should lead and provides evidence so. He shows me an old video of me (age about 24) in which I had leaned on a computer keyboard. It seems I had “randomly” leaned on all the correct keys to break a code or hit a password (pre-set by him and the group). (Assoc: failed a computer science course at around that age.)

It seems I can convince myself of this too – by going lucid in dream and out of body. Sure enough, I do so –with limited lucidity and control of my movement.

A dark haired woman from London has visited for the occasion. A banquet of round breads is laid out on a table. (Association: Laid out in 2 x 6 fashion, these breads remind me of Gregory’s recent egg-box dream.)

Scene alters. I am at end of corridor and the entrance to a room. I have altercation (not physical) with the doorkeeper. This is whether I can enter or not. I casually – sort of uninterestedly - throw something light at the door keeper. Misses, or hits his lower legs.

Assoc: Vaguely this corridor and door remind me of my old high school and the entrance door to a technical/woodwork/metalwork room. (Assoc: Metalwork – alchemy.)

Scene alters. Young people having fun at sea-side, swimming trunks, bikinis. One girl bare-breasted. Half wanting to join them but cannot do so as I have something else to do.

Scene alters. Indoors, perhaps at old school again. Another altercation ensues with another male figure. Again, verbal only, me resisting throwing a punch.

Scene alters: I am in water, near surface. Below I watch a very large crocodile entwined, being crushed by a very large (possibly blue) snake, descending into the murky depths. They turn clockwise in this descent. It seems I am, or at least empathise with, both croc and snake here. As croc I feel (in my chest perhaps) the crushing embrace of the snake. As snake I feel the ineluctable embrace of the snake (my own arms perhaps). The croc is leading the descent, trying to escape perhaps – by drowning the snake – yet also seems to be in control, simply carrying the snake, maybe even smilingly so. Yet the snake is also in control, I sense is not going to let go, can hold its breath for long enough. I think the croc was male, the snake female. Also, sensed this was not so much a life or death struggle for either, but, rather, both life and death – for both croc and snake.

Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:01 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 6 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.