UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Hand of God 
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Post Hand of God
Hello, this is my first post...and I am somewhat new to this.

I'll write a proper intro when time permits, for now though, I would appreciate some insights...please! 8)

I've had 2 dreams / visions that have troubled me. First off, synchronicity has become commonplace in my life and there are FAR too many to list.

As for the dreams, in the first one I was looking straight up at a clear blue sky (just a couple of brilliant white clouds present) and there was a large open hand up there. It was a right hand, palm up. The fingers rolled back into the hand, the hand was then closed, and I 'woke up'... I can tell you that I felt no urgency following the dream.

The second dream / vision was just as quick, like a flash that seemed to last longer than a flash, 'ya know? In the second, I was amongst the stars, all was black and had a silence that I could only explain as being a vacuum. I was hovering near the sun, and it looked like the pictures of the sun that you'd find in the nasa website...black and red.

If anyone can provide some feedback on these I'd appreciate it quite a lot!!

Thanks,
pb


Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:25 pm
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Welcome, Pascal.

Perhaps an invitation? These are just my rather vague first impressions. I always found that more dreams come if you start taking an interest in them.

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:14 pm
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An association has just come to me regarding your first dream, Pascal. There is a science fiction novel that I read years ago by Ian Watson called 'The Jonah Kit'. If I can remember rightly, one of his themes is how the hand, with its grasping motion, is incorporated into the way we think. There are links between one of the characters and the thinking processes of some whales. The whales have enormous brains, and there is an extraordinary intelligence at work here, but they cannot relate to the action of the hand. So there is something in the way that we grasp objects that may be defining our thoughts as humans unconsciously.

Don't know if that is any help - it's only an impression thrown up by my memory.

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:57 pm
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Hi Pascal

Welcome to the UM forum!

For the interpretation of dreams one should know the dreamer. A certain exception are archetypal dreams, and yours seem to be such dreams.

You tell us also that you experience tons of synchronicities -- and exactly here the problem could lie. My first feeling with the dreams was that you tend too much to the Logos aspect of the "unconscious." Also the interpretation of synchronicities backs this standpoint, since in them we try to find a meaning -- obviously something belonging to our mind.

A further hint to my feeling is the fact that you ask us, the people of the UM forum, for an interpretation. You surely know that there is also a Jungian forum (or perhaps some). In the UM forum we discuss an extended way to look at the "psyche." It includes what I call the body-psyche or the subtle body, or in a neutral language the matter-psyche. Carl Jung was not yet able to include this aspect into his theory. Therefore, his theory is a theory of what I call in a neutral language the spirit-psyche, the "Heavenly psyche." The sun and the stars are symbols of this one part.

During the last 30+ years I developed a theory, in which also the matter-psyche is included. Integrating this aspect would be mirrored in dreams, visions and imaginations concerning much more the earth (symbolically seen). This is what we do in this forum.

So, perhaps this could be your task. If so, I am sure that the next dreams talk somehow of the "earth."

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:12 pm
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Post 
Hello, Patrick...thank you, and also for your posts!

I really like what you've said about defining our thoughts...it paints a picture of something concrete, or perhaps of 'crete like' thinking...which is a whole other discussion!

I also resonate with the idea of this being an invitation, but there's a catch. Here's a touch of background...

I live more to the right side of my mind than the left. Being an extremely creative type (of individual), it is not always an easy task to apply logic when it is needed. Maybe you or others in here know that scenario well? :? I can get a little caught up in the meta, so 'concrete' decision making seems a transient idea to me. Life is somehow a painting that I get to work on - flow is a decision to leave decision at the door.

What then is it an invitation to? I mean, the idea is drenched with infinite possibility!

What a wonderful 'problem' to have :)

I realize that each and THE 'answer' comes from within, but by default partial to the idea that when you teach someone something you are helping them to remember. It's in effect right now, thanks!


pb


Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:03 pm
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Hi, Remo...thanks for greeting me!

First, it was a very accurate thing that happened here...I'll quote what I thought was the most significant.

"My first feeling with the dreams was that you tend too much to the Logos aspect of the "unconscious.""

...and from my reply to Patrick's post:

" I can get a little caught up in the meta, so 'concrete' decision making seems a transient idea to me."

To my mind, that's the work of God...full circle.

-------

I have realized over some time now that I am submerged in the process of individuation, so a great dream makes great sense. But the trick is making sense, or coming to terms with, the great dream[s]...
The description of them being a major perception altering experience is very understated!

I've had a glimpse at the tiny light inside, by way of constant scrutiny of my thoughts, and let me say that I tread with caution 'wherever' I go...being able to exchange ideas in an environment such as this is a great way to help understand 'it all'. It is indeed a flood.

Thanks again, Remo!

pb


Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:48 pm
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:48 pm
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:44 pm
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Post 
Pascal,

I really like this image, which reminded me of your first dream.

Image

'Divine World', by Kahlil Gibran.

He was a Lebanese poet and artist, who wrote a little book called 'The Prophet' that was popular at one time. Maybe it still is. I think that this picture is in one of his books, but I suddenly started to think about it.

Patrick

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Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:23 am
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Post Kahlil Gibran
I found this link, for anyone interested:-

http://leb.net/~mira/

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:42 am
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Hello Patrick,

thanks for that, I am very unfamiliar with Hamsa and you've helped me see that. And to be honest, someone mentioned Khalil Gibran's work before and I glanced over it. Perhaps more attention is needed!

*When the search is not 'frantic', it's much better :)

Through these posts, I've come to see why I've written some things over the last while that I could not quite understand...one of them being:

"I carry no weapon / wings, staff...gold of mind"

Thanks,
pb


Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:21 am
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Post The Hand
Pascal,

Just wanted to mention there might be a connection here to the third page of the thread "How a Scientific Discovery is Made":

http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... 0&start=68

The hand discussion begins in the second post from the top of the page.

Jess


Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:27 pm
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Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:36 pm

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Post Jess
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Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:00 pm
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:58 am
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Post The Sinister Six
All,

Here is a further amplification on hands.

The focus is on the primitive mask that seems to prefigure the image Remo shared in Re: What Saves The World and whose number six symbolism seems to describe Remo’s twin birth aspects one can expect from our observations of Her images. It also touches into the business of building up the soul, the subtle body, for the long life in the Beyond.

Image
Quote:
COMPLETION OF THE OPUS

Quote:
Dream 10: As in Ginsberg’s Legends of the Jews, where God was in personal communication with various individuals, He seemed to have assigned me a test, distasteful in every way, for which I was in no way fitted, technically or emotionally. First I was to search for and find a man who was expecting me, and together we were to follow exactly the instructions. The end result was to become an abstract symbol beyond our comprehension, with religious, or sacred, or tabu connotations. The task involved removing a man’s hands at the wrists, trimming them and uniting them to make a hexagonal shape. Two rectangles, one from each hand were to be removed, leaving windows of a sort. The rectangles themselves were also symbols of great value. The results were to be mummified, dried-up, and black. All of it took a long time, was extremely delicate and difficult. He bore it stoically as if was his destiny as well as mine, and the end result, we believed, was what was demanded. When we looked at the symbol that had resulted from our labors, it had an impenetrable aura of mystery about it. We were both exhausted by the ordeal.


If one’s life is governed by the sense of a divine task, this means psychologically that the ego is subordinated to the Self and has been freed of ego-centered preoccupations. Something of this idea is indicated by the nature of the task imposed in the dream (of a man). A man’s hands are to be amputated. This rather grisly primitive image expresses a psychological process. The same image occurs in alchemy as the lion with his paws cut off and in more extreme form as the dismembered man in the Splendor Solis treatise. The hands are the agency of the conscious will. Hence to have them cut off would correspond to the experience of the impotence of the ego. In Jung’s words, “the experience of the Self is always a defeat to the ego.” (CW 14, § 778.)

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Representation of the symbolic process which begins in chaos and ends wih the birth of the phoenix. Title page, Beroalde de Verville, Le Tableau des riches inventions or Le Songe de Poliphile (1600)
Image
The Dismembered Man, Alchemical Drawing
The next step in the dream task is to unite the hands into a hexagon. Here we have a reference to the union of the opposites, right and left, conscious and unconscious, good and evil. The product of the union is a six-fold figure. A well-known six fold symbol which also is made of the union of two similar but contrasting elements is the so-called Solomon’s Seal. For the alchemists it represented the union of fire and water. For others it has signified the interpenetration of the trinity of spirit (upward-pointing triangle) with the chthonic trinity of matter (downward-pointing triangle) and hence symbolized the process of interrelation between the two. The number six is associated with the completion or fulfillment of a creative task. In Genesis the world was created in six days with the final act, the creation of Adam, on the sixth day. Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week. According to Joannes Lyndus, quoted by Jung,

Quote:
The number six is most skilled in begetting, for it is even and uneven, partaking both of the active nature on account of the uneven, and of the hylical nature on account of the even, for which reason the ancients also named it marriage and harmony… And they say also that it is both male and female… And another says that the number six is soul-producing because it multiplies itself into the world-sphere, and because in it the opposites are mingled. CW 16, § 451, n. 6.


Image
Summing up the meaning of these amplifications, the dream seems to say that the task must be performed whereby the powers of the individual ego, for both good and evil, are separated or extracted from their union with the ego and reunited in an abstract or suprapersonal image. When the two rectangular windows are added a rather eerie effect is created reminding one of a (sinister) primitive mask. The net result is a geometrical image which I would venture to suggest is a symbolic representation of the face of God. Edinger, Ego and Archetype, pp.214-216.



Gregory


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Post infinity symbol / lemniscate
should mention also another image that shows up synchronistically - the infinity symbol. I have had the idea in mind for sometime to create an image of a man (of much smaller stature) pushing over an hourglass. The hourglass would be at an angle as though to show that man was victorious.

I always thought of this as a striving for unification and an end to falsification. The idea that time was going to stand still or be 'even' was appealing. the angle denoted how the masses are being led, but that it was shifting.

-------

Then one day an eagle does a full 360 degree turn over my house. A few days later another one passes over the house. -Haven't seen them around in 10-15 years.

*The eagle is present across a range of beliefs or philosophies;

The Eagle represents spiritual protection, carries prayers, and brings strength, courage, wisdom, illumination of spirit, healing, creation, and a knowledge of magic. The eagle has an ability to see hidden spiritual truths, rising above the material to see the spiritual. The eagle has an ability to see the overall pattern, and the connection to spirit guides and teachers. The eagle represents great power and balance, dignity with grace, a connection with higher truths, intuition and a creative spirit grace achieved through knowledge and hard work.

The dictionary of scripture and myth, describes the eagle as;

A symbol of the holy spirit, which flies, as it were, through the mind (air) from the higher nature (heaven) to the lower nature (earth) and soars aloft to the self (sun).

I look up to the sky at night and I see the big dipper in the form of a question mark...

I drew this shape, but stacked together one on top of the other - then came across some wiki info on quantum mechanics.

Image

I can't help but feel that someone's 'tapping my shoulder'... 8)

pb


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Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:51 pm
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Post Gordian Knot
it's a little more 'weird' from here...

a while ago (about a year) a drew a very simple drawing that I wanted to create an image of at some point.

The image was a man standing with sword in hand - about to cut into a circle... the point that he would cut was marked by a 'spark'... from this string of meanings I've found here, I came upon this image:

Image

"The Gordian knot is associated in legend with Alexander the Great:
The knot was made by Gordias. It was further prophesied by an oracle that the one to untie the knot would become the king of Asia. In 333 BC, Alexander attempted to untie the knot. When he could find no end to the knot, he sliced it in half with a stroke of his sword (the so-called "Alexandrian solution")."

I have to be honest - I have not studied all this material till just recently...

pb


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Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:48 am
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