UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Response to Jess 
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Post Response to Jess
Jess,


There was a time in history when UFO sightings were regularly reported in the media, so descriptions of the manifestations were frequently disseminated into the public psyche. I don't believe in a plan by the government to time-release images and information to the public. They know nothing. They operate at a very unsophisticated run-level that is concerned only with the acquisition and control of a fleeting and illusionary power.

There is a fundamentalist streak that permeats UFOdom. This is the subset of believers that adheres to the viewpoint that the manifestation is a solid, physical vehicle with a power supply and a propulsion unit that drives them across vast interstellar or intergalactic distances, and on occasion suffur catastrophic failures and crash. This group includes nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman and the bizarre artifact Bob Lazar. This belief set includes the line that the American military has reverse engineered retrieved crashed alien spaceships at remote inaccessble installations like Groom Lake Area 51. Some believe that the U.S. government has a working agreement with aliens whereby we gain access to their technology in exchange for humans for their genetic experimentation.

This totally neglects the profound psychic component and non-physical aspects of the phenomena that totally indicate a psycho-nuclear make-up and transdimensional or non-local origin to the manifestation.
It's behavior transcends anything one would expect from a mere planetary expiditionary mission.
If you haven't already, you must read the works of French UFO researcher, Jacques Vallee. This is an absolute must.

The phenomena is vast and complex beyond any type of Star Trek space opera. In many contact experiences, there are overt and highly numinous religous and archetypal content. See for example the accounts of what occured at Fatima or read The Andreasson Affair by Raymond Fowler.

I have personally witnessed physically impossible behavior by UFOs on several occasions, including jaw-dropping rapid acute angle direction changes that defy solid mechanics.

And so why is the "Grey" primarily an American-based entity? As you know from your research, there are historically multitudes of various entity types associated with landed UFOs.

Undoubtably, you have experienced some very interesting psychic reactions from your contact experiences?

Has anyone else in your family had contact experiences?


Chris


Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:23 am
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Post Re: Response to Jess
Christopher Ross wrote:
There was a time in history when UFO sightings were regularly reported in the media, so descriptions of the manifestations were frequently disseminated into the public psyche. I don't believe in a plan by the government to time-release images and information to the public. They know nothing. They operate at a very unsophisticated run-level that is concerned only with the acquisition and control of a fleeting and illusionary power.

First, let me say that I accept Remo's explanation of the UFO phenomenon, and I definitely don't agree with the "nuts and bolts" folks. Concerning our so-called government, it is this notion of "control" that I was referring to. I don't think the government knows what's "really" going on, or that it has "teamed up" with the "aliens", as that implies the nuts and bolts theory. But I do think it is in their nature to try and control anything they can, and there is one thing they are good at controlling/influencing, which is public perception/opinion. Countless dollars have been spent on psychological research applied to advertising. In regard to TV and media, they have most Americans by the balls in that they define what people think is "sexy", "cool", "evil", etc. Look at what they were able to do after 9/11. So I think it is possible that they would try the only way they could to have any "control" over the phenomenon, which would be through the media, and I also think they could try to use the phenomenon to their advantage if they had a chance. Now, having said that, thinking something is possible does not neccessarily mean believing it is true :)

But this all quite "Logos", a place I'm not very comfortable, and in the end not really relevant to the heart of the matter.



Christopher Ross wrote:
This totally neglects the profound psychic component and non-physical aspects of the phenomena that totally indicate a psycho-nuclear make-up and transdimensional or non-local origin to the manifestation.

I agree with this, and have come to a better understanding of it since I posted about my "ET"/UFO experiences last spring.

Christopher Ross wrote:
If you haven't already, you must read the works of French UFO researcher, Jacques Vallee. This is an absolute must.

It's been several years since I did much reading about UFOs, and it was of course before I had an understanding of how the phenomenon really works. It was mainly nuts and bolts stuff; I did read about Vallee but nothing by him. What would you recommend to start with?
The reports I read recently were mostly "raw" reports from the public on the NUFORC web site.


Christopher Ross wrote:
Undoubtably, you have experienced some very interesting psychic reactions from your contact experiences?
Please explain what you mean by "psychical reactions". I have not encountered the term before. Image


Christopher Ross wrote:
Has anyone else in your family had contact experiences?


To answer that, here is a quote from what I wrote last spring:

"...I asked my mom if she remembered my Growler “dream”, and she remembered it well. I asked if she remembered us ever seeing any lights in the back yard, and she did not. But we did figure out that there was a period when my father was taking photographs for a speedway on Friday and Saturday nights, and he didn’t get home until after 1am. I asked my father -who doesn’t believe in any god or anything else that can’t be seen- if he had ever seen anything strange. He said yes, one night when he was out in our back yard looking through his telescope (which would have been in the early mid 70s), he saw what appeared to be a “flying saucer” with a row of windows and “people” were looking out of them. Of course he then went on to explain how it must have been some effect of an air temperature] inversion reflecting the image of a bus driving on the highway near our house. He wouldn’t say anything more about it. I later asked people from both my mother’s and my father’s families if anyone had ever seen a UFO, and they hadn’t."

Now I add to that that my cousin was with my grandfather (not the one who died last spring-- this was in 2005) shortly before he died. He told me grandpa started talking about "glowing rocks" and other bizarre things. He said everyone else just thought it was the medications he was taking affecting his mind, but my cousin felt he was telling of real experiences from his past. I am not in close contact with the cousin, but I plan on asking him to elaborate on what grandpa said, because it suggests that my experiences are related to that.

Best,
Jess


Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:56 am
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Post MIBs - the Three Celestial Ones
Christopher, Jess, y’all: RE Men in Black.

It might be considered that the Men in Black play a role in traditions of change; they appear when the culture is on the brink of change in cosmological understanding. Whenever there is a cosmic or psychological change in the world – but an external change; that is, a change in actual belief systems or guiding ideas – that cosmic change is accompanied by the subtle presence of three male visitors.

Abraham, father of the Judeo/Christian/Muslim condition as accompanied by Three Visitors on his journey to Awakening.

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The next phase (the rising Age of Pisces) was marked by a Star over Bethlehem. The Three Magi are taught to Christians today as Three Kings, but magi are not kings. They are shamans (magi=magus=magician). The Three Magi were Zoroastrian astrologers who followed the Star to Bethlehem to seek the beginning of the new age of Pisces. They went to Herod’s court to consult the Roman astrologers. Herod said he was old and had no offspring but the Roman astrologers said the Jewish astrologers intuited something occurring in Bethlehem. Thus the calendar dates from that star moment.

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The general archetype of this accompaniment of action and change in life accompanied by three male visitors from the unconscious I’ve been calling the Three Celestial Ones. The Three Male Deities of Taoism who are said in Taoist lore to live somewhere “beyond the Big Dipper.” There is a statue of them in Tiananmen Square. They are considered the "fathers" of Taoism.

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As Remo mentioned here recently RE one of Michael’s dreams, UFOs today are like angels as angels occurred in minds and pictures years before (Abraham's Three Visitors are sometimes depicted as angels). In Jung’s essay Flying Saucers” A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies, he states:

Quote:
As we know from ancient Egyptian history, they [UFOs] are manifestations of psychic changes which always appear at the end of one Platonic month and at the beginning of another. Apparently they are changes in the constellation of psychic dominants or the archetypes, or “gods” as they used to be called . . . . We are now nearing that great change which may be expected when the springpoint enters Aquarius. (p. 5, intro, Princeton/Bollingen 1978 edition – originally in Zurich and Stuttgart, 1958.)


In looking at the narratives of UFO reports you've got to look at the sincerity – innocence maybe – of the teller and the naivety of the art expression. I became interested on a deeper level when we were living in the foothills of the Appalachians and I came to realize that all of my neighbors – all of them tobacco farmers and fundamentalist Christians who went to churches like this one

Image

all believed in UFOs and had the experience just as they believed that Jesus was their personal Savior. Their religious practice was to make them empty vessels so as to receive the Lord and apparently they received UFO visions as well. Likewise, when you look at narratives you want the most sincere and earnest – it doesn’t matter if it is badly written. It is better that way. Some church man is certain to come along later and change “magician” to “king" and screw it all up. The early narratives of Men in Black have them as three as in the Al Bender narrative in 1953. The MIBs were even referred to in a book about them in 1963 as the Three Men (Al Bender’s, Flying Saucers and the Three Men, 1963) and most early accounts describe the MIBs as Three.

Image

That they tell the people not to tell the press may be good advice – my neighbors in Tobaccoville knew that the culture outside their neighborhoods was hostile to their religious belief and way of life, but didn’t care. They lived with these things among themselves. And Mary, in the early narratives, "kept these things in her heart" when the angels spoke to her; that was the state of my Appalachian neighbors; they lived in the heart, not the head.

The TV show The X Files was half prank (presence of The Trickster) and did have that quality of naivety - nice vitality but quickly written; a lot of the ends didn't match up and a lot of it just made up (CIA, Aliens, Indian shamans, marital infidelity, the whole package. Note: David Duchovny penned an episode with John Lennon as the Aquarian messiah which aired on the actual day that Pisces was said to turn to Aquarius on the calendar). The three Lone Gunmen were the secret "advisers" of Fox Mulder, the seeker into the Unconscious. In the last episode they were presented as the Three Magi at the alien/human birth of the Aquarian (an air/earth hybrid, same in Lt. Ripley's cosmic birth in Alien). Here they are in black.


Image

Al Bender's Flying Saucers and the Three Men at:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1695.htm


Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:38 pm
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Post 
Hi, Bernie....

The 3 Men in Black are a curious lot. Their role in the UFO close-encounter contact experience is both puzzling and disturbing. From the current sightings databases out there, it appears that their run has ended, as they no longer tend to make their appearance after the UFO encounter as much as they once did.
So you have to wonder, just what IS the UFO contact experience to the person who undergoes it, and what function do(did) the "MIB" play to the witnesses they harass. The human mind can only grasp so much from within its rather cosmically unsophisticated base of operations. Humans today do not interpret and relate to these events as perhaps they once would have in a pre-scientific culture. At one time, a person who had such an "encounter" may have been more inclined to internalize it more as a personal spiritual epiphany.

What's funny about the antics of the Men in Black, is that while they would attempt to intimidate the UFO wtness into silence by coming off like government or military heavies, they would often have an Inspector Clouseau air of comic incompetence about them that made them almost like something out of a Monty Python bit.

A very interesting and utterly bizarre case involving UFOs, entities, mysterious photographs, military rocket tests, spacial/temporal anomalies, nuclear power plants, AND Men in Black occurred in 1964 England in what became known as the Solway Firth case.

Image Image
The Soloway Firth Incident

The story is much too long, amazingly weird, and mysteriously elaborate to even try to briefly synopsize. But it needs to be read by anyone here with even a remote interest in the subject of UFOs as this case shines forth high-weirdness like a supernova.


Chris


Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:01 am
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Post 
Jess,

By "psychic reactions" I refer to the change in psychic structure and orientation experienced by many witnesses who come in close proximity to the manifestation. This includes a breakdown of long established belief structures and the redirection of focus toward more spiritual or cosmic realities and insights. Often the witness begins to develop so-called "psychic" powers and abilities such as "astral projection", precognition, and even the channeling of assorted doctrines and messages. Their dream content may become lucid interactions with the entities associated with the UFO. Some people believe that the UFO either directly or indirectly accelerates human evolution.

Vallee is absolutely essential reading.
Go through any means to track down and read The Invisible College.

Image

Also read The Edge of Reality, Confrontations, and Dimensions.


The UFO contact experience often is "inherited" or expressed between generations within a family. How is it that this phemomon becomes attached to a family line, and what is it that is happening when it manifests? Is it somehow a genetic association? For what purpose and to what end?

Chris


Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:01 am
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Post Re: MIBs - the Three Celestial Ones
Bernie Quigley wrote:
In looking at the narratives of UFO reports you've got to look at the sincerity – innocence maybe – of the teller and the naivety of the art expression. I became interested on a deeper level when we were living in the foothills of the Appalachians and I came to realize that all of my neighbors – all of them tobacco farmers and fundamentalist Christians who went to churches like this one

Image

all believed in UFOs and had the experience just as they believed that Jesus was their personal Savior. Their religious practice was to make them empty vessels so as to receive the Lord and apparently they received UFO visions as well. Likewise, when you look at narratives you want the most sincere and earnest – it doesn’t matter if it is badly written. It is better that way.


Yes, this is exactly what I meant about the reports I read from the 40s to the 80s when I said, "...that's one of the things that first made me believe the majority of reports. It's so obvious that it's just regular people from all walks of life describing some "really weird shit" the best they can." I came to feel that misspellings, poor grammar, and lack of sophistication in witnesses' language actually made their accounts more believable... which is in direct contrast to scientific or news articles where the spelling and grammar need to be perfect or else one suspects incompetence. This is kind of paradoxical in that the UFO "believers" are trying to convince the "unbelievers", which consist of mainly scientist-types who see the poor presentation and instantly write the whole thing off.

Being naturally good at spelling and grammar, I got some good belly laughs out of some of the things that were written in the reports, but all the while I knew these things testified to the sincerity and even accuracy of the reports.

Another aspect that seems to me to indicate that the person is not making the report up, is descriptions of events of "high strangeness"-- peculiar and bizarre things that probably wouldn't occur to most people if they were just making the encounter up.


Quote:
Some church man is certain to come along later and change “magician” to “king" and screw it all up.

Ha ha, isn't that the truth!!

Thanks for your insight on the Men in Black. The Bender article was a good read, and it's obvious that he was coming from the view that the "ET"s came from outer space. I wonder if the "conversations" had with the entities manifested the way they did because of his preconceptions (and that could be true in all cases). For example, the lead entity describes their planet as a definite place, similar to earth only very far away. They use the perceptual framework that's already in place to present their information. I think Remo mentioned this (somewhere) when he talked about a dialectic between our expanding perceptual framework and the other world's "ability to tell us more about itself".

Best regards,
Jess


Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:32 am
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Post 
Christopher Ross wrote:
Jess,

By "psychic reactions" I refer to the change in psychic structure and orientation experienced by many witnesses who come in close proximity to the manifestation. This includes a breakdown of long established belief structures and the redirection of focus toward more spiritual or cosmic realities and insights. Often the witness begins to develop so-called "psychic" powers and abilities such as "astral projection", precognition, and even the channeling of assorted doctrines and messages. Their dream content may become lucid interactions with the entities associated with the UFO.

Chris,
My first encounter, I was too young to have many established belief structures. Unfortunately, the only reaction to it that I am aware of was primal fear. Although it's impossible to tell, really, for as long as I can remember I've been quite different than anyone I've known. Is it that dialectical process again, where your strangeness allows to see things that then in turn contribute your strangeness?

My second encounter was quite "worldview-shattering" (yes, I need a thesaurus!). And it happened within 12 to 18 months of my "red crystal dream", (and about four months after the Chernobyl disaster). Having been raised to think "there's nothing out there", not even a god, the UFO sighting made me aware for the first time that all I'd been taught was not true, and that the people I'd been taught to respect really didn't know shit (or if they did, they were keeping it from us).

As far as spirituality, I can now see that I was always actually a very spiritual person, I just didn't have the language to recognize or express it. As a child I had what I can only describe as feelings of love/respect for physical matter itself, and everything seemed to have its own unique "essence". I intuited many things I now know to be true but that no one around me seemed to even conceive of, let alone talk about.

One thing that was strange, though, I felt that the outright psychic powers/abilities you mention above did exist, but they never happened to me. I wanted them to, more than anything in the world, and I felt that they were somehow natural to me, but they never came to me, and still haven't. Of course here I have to say, well maybe it's a case where trying and willing actually keeps them away, but I don't think that's all there is to it.

What has your experience with these things been?



Quote:
Some people believe that the UFO either directly or indirectly accelerates human evolution.

I was thinking the other day about the theories of evolution (one says it's gradual and one says it happens more in bursts), and I thought how the "burst" theory really fit with the idea of the acausal quantum leap, (I think it's even pictured as a series of stair steps/90 degree angles) and maybe that's what we're working on here. Talking to my dad a while back, I said the worst case scenario to me would be to grow old and have this world still be the same as it is now. He said we needed to evolve before anything could change.

Can't type another word, have to get some sleep...

Best,
Jess


Last edited by Jess Marks on Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:41 am
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Post Thanks, Chris, Jess
1964; I consider it the key turning year and one which is about to flip back into perspective. Interesting note on the two MIBs visiting Templeton:

Quote:
Not long after his photograph appeared in the newspapers two strange men in bowler hats came to visit Jim at the fire station where he worked.


In my art blogs I write about 1964 as the turning point year and the Surrealist group as a closed sanga with Magritte and Dali the prominent artists. By looking into the Unconscious they, as artists, find a space/time quality much like can be seen in I Ching or other occult quartrains. They seem freaky but are actually very conservative and mainly try to freak out the outsiders and keep them at bay. I considered these two men in bowler hats, both painted in 1964, to be a kind of "prophesy."

This one, with the white tie and dove flying left of frame (< in math) represents the inner life (Introvert) - the man in the Unconscious:

Image

This one, with the red tie and the apple, represents the outer man; The Inner Man made manifest in the external world. He has red tie signifying action and passion and is signified by an Apple: the fruit of the Tree of Life; that is, the "Son" of the Tree of Life. This picture is called, Son of Man. Indeed, in this picture Magritte quotes the prophecy of the Messiah from the Book of Daniel:
Quote:
In the great vision of Daniel after the appearance of the four beasts, we read:

"I beheld therefore in the vision of the night, and lo, one like a son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and he came even to the Ancient of days: and they presented him before him. And he gave him power, and glory, and a kingdom: and all peoples, tribes, and tongues shall serve him: his power is an everlasting power that shall not be taken away: and his kingdom shall not be destroyed" (7:13 sq.).

Image

RE: The Four Beasts; The Beatles, who appeared in the world at that time (and were marked by the Apple), were commonly considered the Four Horsemen - they of the dismal tide who were said to mark the end of the era by conservative religious commentators. And Allen Ginsburg, the poet said, "Liverpool is at the present moment the center of the consciousness of the human universe."

I have had a dream w/ the Three Visitors I mention above and I painted this picture of them as they appeared more or less - they were three sculls in old robes praying in an ancient temple like the Church of the Nativity in Jerusalem. They were praying before a swirling ball of light. I walked into the temple as I once walked into the temple of the Emerald Buddha with shoes on and was scolded by a Buddhist monk. Likewise, they turned and I was scolded again and they said, "Keep your head down in the House of God."

Here are the three skulls:

Image

The very strangest thing about this dream was that I learned the next day that it occurred at the moment when the singer Kurt Cobain died. I did not really know who he was although I'd read about his drug issues in the paper a week before. I now know a lot about him and feel a kinship with him.

A dream about that is here:
http://bernieq.blogspot.com/2008/02/app ... reams.html


Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:35 pm
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Post the siddhis
Hey Jess,

been contemplating your thoughtful presentation of the psychic charge which accompained your encounter experiences, what you faced in integrating them, especially where you used the apt phrase "worldview shattering" in connection with the development of your spiritual sensibilities. Your discovery that 'all that you'd been taught was not true', is the essential prerequisite to the opening of the semi-dormant but intrinsic understanding, that is natural to us all in childhood, namely that there are things which are unexplained, but that there is something about those unexplained things that is also completely 'natural', as natural as a tree or a bird or a rock, though different, 'strange', and often unseen. In other words, parallel levels of experience, a virtual layer cake of otherreality/surreality/ur-reality, lie side by side with us, that we are not actually living in a three-dimensional paradigm at all unless we buy that belief. Sometimes the doors to those 'places' open, other times they remain closed, but they are always there, co-existant. Bernie describes this process perfectly, where he says that his Appalachian neighbours experienced the sighting of UFO's as completely co-resonant with their intensely lived spirituality 'in Christ'.

The sense that there is a 'unified field' of experience 'out there' within which we literally co-exist at all times is what the fundamentalist outlook seeks to disqualify. The truth that we are powerful beings precisely due to our innate spiritual connection to 'all things' is exploited by those in control for their own ends, whether consciously or, as often as not, unconsciously. That truth has, however, been successfully twisted by deft and subtle minds, by a burgeoning fixation with logos aptitude, over many years, bringing us to this place of fear many of us now inhabit. Trust in our inner predilections, the hidden truth known to the alchemists, sages and everyday people of deep faith, is easily vanquished when the fear has gone as deep as it has today -- the last location is 'the body', and our disinheritance of our bodies, our sense of apathy towards 'matter' in general, has pretty much sealed the deal. The politics of this ongoing body-negation has resulted in the abuse of the Power of Love and it's distortion into the concept that Power can stand alone.

I do want to talk a bit more in and around this subject as I'm especially interested where you describe your unique feelings of connection and resonance with nature since you were very young, and of how it sometimes seemed strange to you that this did not result in any obvious psychic aptitude. The awakening of our sense of 'inner sight', sometimes called the 'arousal of the Dragon' in yogic literature, when cultivated eventually does, according to ancient sources, result in the development of siddhis, "so-called magical powers that unfold as the soul develops". I'd like to address this idea of the so-called 'rewards' of spiritual development, as I do think that in some way it speaks, again, to an idea which may not have much relevance to the real truth. It's my feeling that you've already manifested siddhis but on a level that is not given credance...


best,
Kristin

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Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:09 am
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Post A text for Good Friday
Jess Marks wrote:
As far as spirituality, I can now see that I was always actually a very spiritual person, I just didn't have the language to recognize or express it. As a child I had what I can only describe as feelings of love/respect for physical matter itself, and everything seemed to have its own unique "essence". I intuited many things I now know to be true but that no one around me seemed to even conceive of, let alone talk about.


Jess & All

Some weeks ago I wrote the following. It corresponds to a dream of Pauli's, which shows exactly that matter possesses a living essence, however, only observable with the Eros ego.

Quote:
6.16.5 Brass tones engraved in a metal plate and eggs as a confirmation of the psychophysical theory

The above conclusions are confirmed by two dreams Pauli had already in March 1948, shortly before he and the audience of the C.G. Jung Institute’s foundation ceremony experienced the Fludd/flood synchronicity with the Chinese vase. The physicist quotes them in Background Physics [For the following see Atom and Archetype (The Pauli/Jung Letters, pp. 192-196] and one feels that he is deeply touched by them.


Dream of the brass tones engraved in a metal plate:

“My first physics teacher appears and says: ‘The change in the splitting of the ground state of the H-atom is a fundamental one. Brass tones are engraved on a metal plate.’ Then I go to Göttingen.”

Since Pauli became a physicist because of his first impressions about the subject mediated by his first physics’ teacher, we can interpret the motif of the doublet fine structures of spectral emission as the most important aspect of physics for him. As we realized, the splitting means the bipolar aspect of the energy term also expressed in so many dreams of Pauli by dark and bright stripes – remember his wasp phobia – and oscillations.

To the metal plate and the tones engraved in it the Nobel laureate gives the following remarks:

“The metal plate … represents the material physical world (physis) in a relatively stable form. … The tones … serve very well as symbols; with their connection to music, they represent feeling – the very thing that physics cannot express. With their connection to the music of the spheres (I was very involved with Kepler at the time), they have a cosmic character. As an acoustic phenomenon, they also belong to physis, so they are a symbol uniting physis and psyche.”

We remember the stable substance in the dreams above. It is the end product of the Hermetic opus, the result of creating the red tincture or the quintessence. The reader is further reminded that in my interpretation it symbolizes the incarnated product of the coniunctio, of the union of the continuous and the discontinuous world, of the twin process’ singular quantum leap. It however also symbolizes the destructive aspect of the incarnatio in the unconscious case, the Pauli effect, UFO encounter and abduction.

The end of a dream mostly shows the solution of the constellated problem. There the physicist has to go to Göttingen. In Göttingen a today very famous Pauli effect happened: Pauli’s colleague Otto Stern prepared a large-scale experiment at the University of Göttingen, when one of the measuring instruments exploded. Since one did not find the reason, one began to believe in a Pauli effect in his absence. Pauli was thus asked what he did in the moment of the explosion. Exactly when the misfortune happened, he waited on the railway station of Göttingen, since coming from Zürich he had to change the train to visit Niels Bohr in Copenhagen.

“Göttingen” means therefore that Pauli should have become conscious of the background of the paranormal effect named after him. As we realized, this would have meant to give up the objectivation of the rotation, the spin, on the psychophysical level and its replacement by the concept of the subtle body/world soul located in the space-, time- and massless psychophysical reality with its nonlocal quality.

The tones, “uniting physics and psyche,” engraved in the “relatively stable” brass plate, i.e., in inorganic matter, tell us why the twin process with the singular (acausal) quantum leap can happen: Matter/energy itself possesses a psychophysical aspect [which, however, can only indirectly be observed with the help of the Eros ego in the spontaneous quantum leap]. It is not just inanimated matter without any soul as materialistic science would like to make us believe. This is the naked truth science will have to accept against its materialistic world view. The dream gives like this also a confirmation of the fact that UFO phenomena are real [and not a projection of the Self into the sky, as Jung believed]. It is only the prejudice of the one-sided Logos, which prevents us of the observation of the psychophysical aspect of the universe. However, this one-sided view will more and more be compensated by phenomena like the above, and since most people are unconscious about the psychophysical reality they will be destructive.

The Nobel laureate then mentions that the tones as the creators of music have to do with the feeling function. Further, since during the time when he had this dream he was deeply involved in the Kepler/Fludd studies, he also associates with the cosmic character of this music, the music of the spheres both of the two antagonists were deeply stamped of.

Let us first have a look at the feeling aspect, which, as Pauli mentions, is absent in physics. As we remember, the introverted feeling belongs to the Eros ego defined above. Thus, the dream tells us that a necessary condition for the creation of the “tones ingraved in the metal plate” is the development of the Eros ego. The physicist further spontaneously associates the cosmic character of this specific music. Without knowing the process that I propose, Body-Centered Imagination, he thus anticipates half consciously that with the help of the Eros ego one can observe the sphere’s music.

As he knows of his Kepler/Fludd studies, the sphere’s music, an originally Pythagorean concept, belonged to the Hermetic coniunctio, creating as we realized in Chapter 4 as its last result the “infans solaris [symbolically identical with the red tincture and the quintessence; RFR], which is at the same time the liberated world-soul.” This procedure leads into the harmony of the world and of the universe. It is exactly this harmony, which I hypothesized to be the result of BCI. Thus Pauli’s very impressive dream confirms my hypothesis: By a completely introverted procedure it seems to be possible to create the red tincture or the quintessence – the latter comes back in the last dream I will interpret. Like this, it seems, the disease of the world and of the universe caused by the artificial fission can be healed. However, this is only possible, if mankind becomes conscious of the necessity of the development of the Eros ego, since only the latter can observe the “subterranean connection” (W. Pauli), the psychophysical nonlocality, between the microcosm, the imaginating human, and the macrocosm, the unus mundus with its energetic principle, the world soul or Eros Self. As we further know, only like this the potential singular quantum leaps become actual and can enter the reality of our world.

...

We can resume the essence of the two dreams as follows: The “stable substance,” animated as well as inanimated matter, possesses a psychophysical and thus a magic matter-psyche aspect. With the help of it matter is able to change its quality in processes that follow the nexus of the singular acausal quantum leap, the “subterranean connection” between the inner world and the universe. Such a transformation is however only incarnated in a positive way, if there is a conscious observation of the process with the help of the Eros ego. The incarnation itself is symbolized by the sphere music of the Pythagoreans, which is an attribute of the Hermetic coniunctio. Actually in the practise of a healer one can realize such sphere music empirically exactly in the moment, in which the patient enters the coniunctio. The goal of this process, of the unio corporalis, is then the observation of increased negentropy [increased order] of the vegetative body on the one hand and of the world soul on the other. Its necessary precondition is however the acceptance of the fourth as the Seal of Solomon demonstrated in the Nobel laureate’s dream of the eggs, which only allows for the twin process, the singular quantumleap as an incarnation act.



Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
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Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:46 am
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The more it is despised by fools,
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Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:47 am
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Post Re: Body-negation
kristin wrote:
Trust in our inner predilections, the hidden truth known to the alchemists, sages and everyday people of deep faith, is easily vanquished when the fear has gone as deep as it has today-- the last location is 'the body', and our disinheritance of our bodies, our sense of apathy towards 'matter' in general, has pretty much sealed the deal.

This is something I hope to address further at some point. In my childhood experience, as adolescence approached, it was necessary to hide and deny the hidden truth, as my peers were outright hostile toward it. The problem then was that, lacking any source of external support or confirmation (and lacking the kind of inner confirmation I have received within the past year), I mostly lost trust in the inner knowledge. And due to that lack of support, and also because I had not developed a strong sense of Ego to begin with, I lost all self confidence when I was attacked by other kids. This led not only to depression and mild obsessive-compulsive disorder, but also to a form of Body Dismorphic Disorder, which I am still trying to heal today. I would describe this as a type of self-hatred projected onto the body image. Perhaps another manifestation on a personal scale of the situation of our society at large.


kristin wrote:
The politics of this ongoing body-negation has resulted in the abuse of the Power of Love and it's distortion into the concept that Power can stand alone.

Is one aspect of this abuse of the power of love the mutation of "love is in the eye of the beholder" to "love is Jessica Simpson and Angelina Joli" in Western society today? i.e. you shouldn't trust your inner natural sense of what you find beautiful, you should replace it with what society tells you to find beautiful. (And then corporations can make money off of you because you'll buy all their movies and porn!)

Jess


Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:31 am
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Post Shamans
Jess Marks wrote:
The problem then was that, lacking any source of external support or confirmation (and lacking the kind of inner confirmation I have received within the past year), I mostly lost trust in the inner knowledge. And due to that lack of support, and also because I had not developed a strong sense of Ego to begin with, I lost all self confidence when I was attacked by other kids. This led to depression, etc...

This relates to something Bernie addressed in his "Kurt Cobain" blog he mentioned above.
Bernie wrote:
"In days gone by in the West, this journey into dreams was done by shamans, the one person in the tribe who could go into the unconscious and come out alive, bringing with her or him the goods of the psyche to show to his or her people. Anyone else, it should be noted, would risk madness. But without the shaman, the people were lost souls, lost in the material world, without access to the inner life... Characteristically, the shaman is the tribe’s soothsayer, healer and dream interpreter. Very often they are called to the position by a voice from the Unconscious, an archetypal deity of the tribe... Needless to say, this role has disappeared in the West, but at the cost of intimate knowledge of the Unconscious. Not only is this a loss to everyone in the West, but it was also a loss to those who would be shamans."

How true that is! I felt many years ago that if I had been born into a tribal/ hunter-gatherer society I would have been a shaman. This is probably true for most of us here, and some of you have been lucky enough to have already become shamans. But what happens when one receives the call of that "voice from the Unconscious" but there is no one to take the youngster under their wing and teach him or her the "Art"? My answer to that question-- a lot of suffering.

On one hand, I am coming to think that for some reason the nature of my "task" was to actually "lose" the power/ability/art (or think we've lost it) and then have to re-find it, to sort of "re-invent the wheel". That is, go through the whole process of experiencing what life is like without it in order to "re-realize" why we needed it in the first place, so that it value is understood and it is not taken for granted. I'm not satisfied with the way I explained that, but maybe better words will come to me later. At any rate, that one could be born in "the belly of the beast" (i.e. modern USA) and even find the right path is amazing in itself.

Jess


Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:45 am
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Post Re: the siddhis
kristin wrote:
I do want to talk a bit more in and around this subject as I'm especially interested where you describe your unique feelings of connection and resonance with nature since you were very young, and of how it sometimes seemed strange to you that this did not result in any obvious psychic aptitude. The awakening of our sense of 'inner sight', sometimes called the 'arousal of the Dragon' in yogic literature, when cultivated eventually does, according to ancient sources, result in the development of siddhis, "so-called magical powers that unfold as the soul develops". I'd like to address this idea of the so-called 'rewards' of spiritual development, as I do think that in some way it speaks, again, to an idea which may not have much relevance to the real truth. It's my feeling that you've already manifested siddhis but on a level that is not given credance...


Kristin, please continue; I'm very interested.

Cheers!
Jess


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Post the fruit of The Work, cont.
Hi Jess,

I'll endeavour to continue a dialogue re. the so-called siddhi 'powers'...! In order to do so, however, I find I have to take a short detour, as I'll be quoting from a text that needs some introduction. Here I'd also like to say thanks to Remo for his lucid interjection above, which adds much to the mix. That 'matter possesses an energetic aspect' is EXACTLY part and parcel of this discussion, and I look forward to the expansion of this part of the equation where possible.

At any rate, the text in question here is essentially a manual for working with westernized alchemic precepts in order to reach higher levels of self-integration. The book is "The Tower of Alchemy" by David Goddard, and the methodology for integration presented in it will be familiar to serious students of western alchemy. Chiefly it outlines the necessity for an 'inner' integration of certain images and symbolic content, having much in common with similar methods utilized by eastern spiritual traditions (and of course mostly synthesized from them, the history of this development going along hand in hand with the flowering of European culture). Included in the traditions which Goddard quotes from regularly are Hindu and Tibetan yogic practices, as well as Kabbalah.

Throughout the course of the text the author pursues the truth of certain hermetic axioms using the familiar tool of Active Imagination, as well as less well-known 'passive' or 'receptive' techniques. The receptivity factor here espoused is similar in spirit to the BCI method, however, it is not exactly the same. It involves the intentional implanting of certain tried and true symbolic content into the conscious mind such that the content eventually penetrates to the unconscious, thus having a cumulative, reverberative effect on the entire personality, stirring a regenerative energy which eventually influences the process of individuation for the good. Clearly this method stands in contrast to the open-ended BCI application, which invokes nothing whatsoever, is more personal in scope, involves the physical body to a large degree and does not imply any 'end goal', such as the implication 'of a rise in consciousness' (which, nevertheless we know from experience does indeed tend to ignite by application of this 'method'... :)).

Unlike Remo Roth's instinctive, eros consciousness based BCI/SST application, Goddards' method is founded on standard, previously tried-and-true precepts (though intelligently, thoughtfully and artfully re-fashionned and fleshed-out for the modern reader), and relies on a disciplined consistency of application more aligned with a causal sensibility. Like other such modalities, the end results of this undertaking predicts the emergence, at some future time, of one or another of certain fabled abilities. The attainment of certain levels of 'enlightenment' along the Path confer such effortless capacities, it is said, the proof of which can be seen in the paranormal powers of certain Tibetan Tulkus, seers, shamans and so forth.

That said, and thoughtfully considered, I have , however, found immersion in the Western Mystery teachings effective, if only to come to an understanding regarding the use of certain symbolic content and it's significance to the inner life. In addition I've found that a balance of approach between the acausal (BCI) sensibility and this more pro-active (though not willful) step-by-step approach via use of certain 'tools of concentration' to be very helpful. Goddard is a modern Adept, initiated into the Western Mystery Tradition, and I have to say that I have found his work (as you can se from the number of times I have quoted him on the forum) exceedingly useful and a luminous accompaniement to my own development. He shows no contempt for traditions which espouse a strong bodily component to the integrative aspect, on the contrary Goddard is careful to include 'matter' as one of the most important factors in the 'success' of the Work. Whenever I use this book as a resource I find I am easily able to sift through the very few components which seem suggestive of the use will force for any preferred outcome. The author does clearly state that ultimate 'will force' comes from the energy of the World Soul/Source alone, demonstrates, to my mind, an unspoken leaning toward a 'form' of Body Centered Imagination... An aphorism presented along with the introduction to his text shows precisely Goddards' main intent:

Mystery is to God what privacy is to Man


I begin, then, with a quotation from "The Tower", which discusses the aspect of so-called the 'fruits' of the Work:


Quote:
Part of the fruitage of kundalini yoga, which occurs long before the Great Work itself is fully completed, is that the siddhis are retained after physical death and into subsequent incarnations....this phenomenon occurs so that practionioners may, under the right circumstances, quickly assimilate their previous knowledge and skills and so recommence with their progress in the Work [ie, upon rebirth, kf]. These siddhi manifest during childhood, then close, to a degree, during puberty, and re-emerge again in adulthood....When working with high-frequency energy changes occur on all levels. It is not a matter for faith, it is a mattter of direct experience... [my emphasis, kf]. Among the results practionioners will experience are: the unfoldment of latent siddhis (the awakening of dormant psychic faculties); the sensitizing and enhancement of the emotions; the tremendous increase of the physical body's capacity to experience bliss and that concsiousness itself is liberated from the shackles of appearance and so can enter into exalted states of awareness...( p. 244)



I'll take this investigation a step further and apply it, if I can, to some of your concerns, Jess, in my next post....


sincerely,
Kristin


(to the board: perhaps this thread should be re-directed under another heading --- ? --- the idea of the conference of seemingly 'magical powers' does fall in the same arena as a 'radioactive' sensibility, but the ressemblance perhaps ends there.....?....)

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Post ...
lightning strikes twice?....

Image

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Post Re: the fruit of The Work, cont.
kristin wrote:


(to the board: perhaps this thread should be re-directed under another heading --- ? --- the idea of the conference of seemingly 'magical powers' does fall in the same arena as a 'radioactive' sensibility, but the ressemblance perhaps ends there.....?....)


Kristin and all,

I was wondering the same thing... we already moved once. I'm terrible at categorizing things (in my mind each thing deserves its own unique category, but that isn't very practical!) Also, all the concepts discussed on this forum are intimately related, so it's difficult to separate them, especially when we are purposely trying to keep a universal perspective. If anyone wants to move the posts or threads it's fine with me.

Jess


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Post Re: the fruit of The Work, cont.
kristin wrote:
I begin, then, with a quotation from "The Tower", which discusses the aspect of so-called the 'fruits' of the Work:


Quote:
Part of the fruitage of kundalini yoga, which occurs long before the Great Work itself is fully completed, is that the siddhis are retained after physical death and into subsequent incarnations....this phenomenon occurs so that practionioners may, under the right circumstances, quickly assimilate their previous knowledge and skills and so recommence with their progress in the Work [ie, upon rebirth, kf]. These siddhi manifest during childhood, then close, to a degree, during puberty, and re-emerge again in adulthood....When working with high-frequency energy changes occur on all levels. It is not a matter for faith, it is a mattter of direct experience... [my emphasis, kf]. Among the results practionioners will experience are: the unfoldment of latent siddhis (the awakening of dormant psychic faculties); the sensitizing and enhancement of the emotions; the tremendous increase of the physical body's capacity to experience bliss and that concsiousness itself is liberated from the shackles of appearance and so can enter into exalted states of awareness...( p. 244)


I wanted to start with a quick response to something in that quote that I've been wondering about a long time. I have said before that I did experience such a "disappearance" at puberty of what I considered to be a connection to the other world (and the siddhi?). I thought the reasons for that disappearance may have been brought about by a combination of social, familial, and physical stresses which all seemed to converge upon me around the same time. (I have been planning to open a discussion specifically about this physical aspect elsewhere on the forum when I get my thoughts organized and written.) But Goddard says these things naturally decline around puberty. Not being well-read, I had not come across the concept before. It has been my focus recently to re-establish the lost connection and continue where I left off ~27 years ago, ultimately helping with what needs to be done, basically re-integrating the world soul into human consciousness. I have re-connected to some extent, however not quite the visceral connection I had before. I am looking forward to guidance from others here who have the desire and time to assist! :)

Gratefully,
Jess


Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:12 pm
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Post Matter
Remo Roth wrote:
The tones, “uniting physics and psyche,” engraved in the “relatively stable” brass plate, i.e., in inorganic matter, tell us why the twin process with the singular (acausal) quantum leap can happen: Matter/energy itself possesses a psychophysical aspect... It is not just inanimated matter without any soul as materialistic science would like to make us believe. This is the naked truth science will have to accept against its materialistic world view.

As you have pointed out throughout your work, this world view (repression/ignorance of the psychophysical aspect) is responsible for so much of the trouble we face today. When I was eighteen and had to create my own language to express this whole problem since there was no existing language that I knew of, I used to express the ignorance or repression as what I called a "lack of Respect" (with a capital "R"). In response to this lack of Respect, I felt the pity for the suffering matter, and I wrote that what was needed more than anything else in the world was to bring back the Respect. This was in early 1988.

I had seen the lack of Respect expressed in so many ways, but I remember the first time I realized it was when I was 9 or 10 and I was helping my mother clean up after dinner. There was still some food left on my plate, and I was washing it down the drain and running the "garbage disposer", when I was struck with a great sorrow for the "matter" of the food itself. It wasn't a guilt that stemmed from the fact that people were starving elsewhere in the world who would've been grateful for that food. It was a sorrow that we modern Americans were raised to just throw things away and grind them up without a second thought. After this I always felt the need to "thank my food" before I ate it. This was not thanking a god up in heaven for providing the food, like most Christians I know do. This was the expression of gratefullness to the matter itself. With the materialistic scientific world view, we automatically think "the matter doesn't "care" whether it's thrown away or ground up, or what form it is in, or whether it becomes nourishment for humans or for bacteria or for nothing at all..." And maybe this it true and it's just anthropomorphic to think the matter would care what form it is in. But ultimately I do think the matter "feels" our respect or disrespect toward it.

I also saw the lack of Respect expressed by certain people (usually males!) when some item they were using would break, and they would get angry and call the thing a "piece of shit" as if they had hatred for the matter itself, and as if the item had shown some sort of disrespect towards him (i.e. his ego) by breaking! My feeling was that it was sad that people had used the matter to make such a cheaply designed item, which was probably mass produced in a factory without the slightest bit of Respect. Therefore if anything should be blamed, it should be those people and not the matter itself.

Although atheist, my family celebrated "Christmas", more in the spirit of the pagan traditions and as a family and social event than as a religious observance. Each year we put up a real tree and decorated it, and it served as a focal point of love and happy feelings. And I was completely enamoured by the tree itself. Before we took the tree down each year, I would reach my arms as far around the tree as I could and give it a hug. I was sad that it had been cut down, but I thanked it from the bottom of my heart for being our tree. All in secret, of course.

Best,
Jess


Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:43 am
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Post A Question
Remo Roth wrote:
The dream gives like this also a confirmation of the fact that UFO phenomena are real [and not a projection of the Self into the sky, as Jung believed]. It is only the prejudice of the one-sided Logos, which prevents us of the observation of the psychophysical aspect of the universe. However, this one-sided view will more and more be compensated by phenomena like the above, and since most people are unconscious about the psychophysical reality they will be destructive.

Dear Remo & All,
I've been wondering about how the phenomena incarnate as destructive in the case of unconsciousness and positive in the case of proper observation. The distinction between what is positive and what is destructive is a value judgement and is it not ultimately relative? Or is there some intrinsic "positive" or "destructive" quality?

Comments or references are welcome from anyone on this! (Remember I am coming at this with no previous experience with Jung or Alchemy.)

Jess


Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:08 am
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Post Re: Matter
Jess Marks wrote:
With the materialistic scientific world view, we automatically think "the matter doesn't "care" whether it's thrown away or ground up, or what form it is in, or whether it becomes nourishment for humans or for bacteria or for nothing at all..." And maybe this it true and it's just anthropomorphic to think the matter would care what form it is in. But ultimately I do think the matter "feels" our respect or disrespect toward it.

I also saw the lack of Respect expressed by certain people (usually males!) when some item they were using would break, and they would get angry and call the thing a "piece of shit" as if they had hatred for the matter itself, and as if the item had shown some sort of disrespect towards him (i.e. his ego) by breaking! My feeling was that it was sad that people had used the matter to make such a cheaply designed item, which was probably mass produced in a factory without the slightest bit of Respect. Therefore if anything should be blamed, it should be those people and not the matter itself.

Although atheist, my family celebrated "Christmas", more in the spirit of the pagan traditions and as a family and social event than as a religious observance. Each year we put up a real tree and decorated it, and it served as a focal point of love and happy feelings. And I was completely enamoured by the tree itself. Before we took the tree down each year, I would reach my arms as far around the tree as I could and give it a hug. I was sad that it had been cut down, but I thanked it from the bottom of my heart for being our tree. All in secret, of course.

Best,
Jess[/color]


I have trouble myself with being gracious toward matter, but I'm working on it!

Tennis players often look at their rackets in disgust if they hit a bad shot...

The lab I work at is going to be replicating Dr. Emoto's water crystal experiment.

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Post the fruits of the Work, cont.
Guys, looks like this topic is multi-dimensional, morphing around on it's own recognizance, which I think is great and just like most things that happen here on the UM... Meanwhile, I"m back here to try and wrap up this take on the concept of siddhis...

Looking back at the quotation from "The Tower of Alchemy", we read:

Quote:
When working with high-frequency energy, changes occur on all levels. It is not a matter for faith, it is a matter of direct experience.


"A matter of direct experience" -- YES. But who is to say if your direct experience will be the same as mine; it's all a matter of proportion. And the main thing to make note of here, once again, is that it doesn't matter which path anyone takes, it is essentially the same Royal Road we're all on, just looks different from various angels (I spelt that wrong, a little slip, but it does work here, does it not??? :) ). Eventually all 'practionners of the Art', whatever one takes that to mean, end up in the same place. And what exactly is this 'same place'? Once again it's difficult to categorize. Most texts use the achievement of 'spiritual enlightenment' as a marker, as if that were a state that was easily understood, as if there were an acceptable way of making that distinction. There are quiet contemplatives who achieve mastery, then go back to chopping wood. Then again there exist boisterous, rock'n roll priest types who have likewise attained mastery, and who also radiate the characteristic charismatic humility of one who has successfully tripped the lock on the peace of deep vision, now spends most of their time in joyous alignment with the Heart of the Void. Such persons also continue to 'carry water'. Absolutely. Indeed, arrival at such a juncture does not directly confer any special qualities, so says the Taoist credo.

Many many things are conjectured re. what may happen upon the path of inner integration, but despite it all, we understand that most of this talk is just metaphoric. Unfortunately, it's a difficult path to walk. One understands that in taking this route, other things will have to be given up. But usually the practionner has no choice in the matter, the trip is one of necessity which they are destined to walk in this life. The frequency level of such people is usually higher than that of others who have yet to feel the necessity of this commitment, but beyond that all is, again, just conjecture. In traditional literature on the subject, the difficulty of the journey is usually offset by the promise of boons and gifts in the future -- the 'fruit' of the Work. One can see this promise milked for all it's worth in most religious literature, for instance.

The promise of boons, of what Grace may ultimately confer the one who labours to reach a different level of integration with the Ineffable 'within as without', is tantalizing, and the verity of this fair hope generally remains unquestionned. This makes sense, of course. The general public is not usually aware that a number of people walking around on this planet with them are actually 'living' this particular kind of life, the peculiar life of a contemplative in a 'past'-modern world. Most people think that this is the stuff of fairy tales. But for those of us who are actually living such a life in earnest, however privately, it is natural we might unconsciously retain the hope that a certain kind of 'sign' might appear at some point along the road, proving we have reached a certain stage in our inner development. As it turns out, the signs are rarely literal. We float on in a subjective stew, our only guide the sight of our own hands in front of us -- otherwise, the way is 'through fog'.

Seems hard to avoid going off on tangents where this topic is concerned. Guess I'll just say now that I believe that a literal interpretation of the conferance of 'spiritual gifts' upon long-suffering practionners of the inner arts is the culprit in this case. It is the 'cause and effect' style of interpretation of spiritual texts that is at fault, interpretations which would have us believe that certain outcomes will occur if we 'do' such and such, and so forth (and we can certainly think of alot of examples of this kind of mindset in regard to bible interpretation et al - basically, it's logos consciousness inspired 'reading' which causes such rigid perspectives).

In general let me just say this: if the concept or vision of another 'life' or sets of lives layered beneath, around, over or under the 3-dimensional reality mindset is 'visible'/viable to you, if the fabric of time is somewhat or wholly 'transparent' to you, if you are sensitive to vibrations in general, of whatever kind, aware of an innate flexibility in everything around you that eludes most people, if you dream lucidly and retain dream images and other content, are, in short aware and observant of synchronous activity occuring all around you nearly all the time, and if nature presents itself to you in both pragmatic and mystical ways all at one and the same time, etc, you can be sure you are standing on 'the road less travelled'. And these very things ARE the signs which Goddard, among others who have written on the subject, refers to in his text --- I return to the quoatation we read, and perhaps the words can be read again through different eyes now:

Quote:
Among the results practionners will experience are....the sensitizing and enhancement of the emotions; the tremendous increase of the physical body's capacity to experience bliss and that consciousness itself is liberated from the shackles of appearance and so can enter into exalted states of awareness...


Jess, I do submit that your experiences are positively RIFE with the liminal quality of eros-consciousness! You are surfing your own particular siddhi manifestations at a phenomenally subtle psychophysical level all the time, and have been at it for a great many years. No wonder you have felt strange and experienced the life that you've described. As for the fact that this development briefly subsides at puberty, many ancient texts attest to this fact, due mostly to the weight of sexuality that descends at that very time and the attention it demands from us. Some texts describe a miraculous moment just at the very onset of puberty, where we stand very briefly at a most luminous crossroad. Many who are gifted with 'sight' or other such particular skills, will manifest very strong psychic presence at this juncture. But generally that experience is seldom understood by the person who is in that state, and they don't remember the door that opened for them then perhaps until much later, if ever. Most of us here, I"m sure, can remember such a moment in time, or at least the strong feelings we had between the ages of say 11 and 14, and I'd argue that if you can do so, if there is a strong component of soul force that accompanied your experiences of that time, separate yet connected to your appreciation of the sober demands of sexuality, you are one of those who was 'called' to walk this path....

Essentially, we are the INCUBATORS of 'another way'. 'Gifts' follow, but not in the way that we might think about them or expect them to emerge -- they are often unseen, but always FELT, and, as the experience proves, feeling is really the TRUE test of whether something has actually 'manifested' or not. In some ways it is anathemic to this particular trip we're on that we should imagine that anything 'obvious' or literal will manifest for us. An authentic psychophysical experience (meaningful and true in a very different way than a 'normal' kind of event, and enriching on a profound level) is hardly ever obvious to anyone -- the subtle quality of such events is really the only guide as to whether we have experienced one or not. Thus it is said that the realized Buddha, self-contained and wholly unselfconscious, both unseen marks of Self-Realization*, walked the streets, radiating, and the cherry trees blossomed as he went by. The fruit of the Work is mainly 'felt', and the crown jewel of the long process is the eventual effortless 'radiation' outwards of the Love with which we have become one on the inside. Such an undertaking benefits all creation.


multiply!
Kristin


(* just wanted to add: the process of individuation is definately not the same thing as the attainment of Self-realization..want to make sure I haven't inadvertently confused the two anywhere...)

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Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:17 am
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Post Re: the fruits of the Work, cont.
Hi Kristin,

I don't have anything important to say in reply right now; I've been doing a lot of thinking and writing and that's why I've been quiet. I guess I'm in an "assimilating" phase for now... But I just wanted to say that I appreciate your posts and the time you obviously spend on them, and when I figure out how to say what I'm thinking or what I want to ask, I'll speak up.

Best,
Jess


Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:47 am
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Post Re: the fruits of the Work, cont.
kristin wrote:
Guys, looks like this topic is multi-dimensional, morphing around on it's own recognizance, which I think is great and just like most things that happen here on the UM... Meanwhile, I"m back here to try and wrap up this take on the concept of siddhis...

Looking back at the quotation from "The Tower of Alchemy", we read:

Quote:
When working with high-frequency energy, changes occur on all levels. It is not a matter for faith, it is a matter of direct experience.


"A matter of direct experience" -- YES. But who is to say if your direct experience will be the same as mine; it's all a matter of proportion. And the main thing to make note of here, once again, is that it doesn't matter which path anyone takes, it is essentially the same Royal Road we're all on, just looks different from various angels (I spelt that wrong, a little slip, but it does work here, does it not??? :) ). Eventually all 'practionners of the Art', whatever one takes that to mean, end up in the same place. And what exactly is this 'same place'? Once again it's difficult to categorize. Most texts use the achievement of 'spiritual enlightenment' as a marker, as if that were a state that was easily understood, as if there were an acceptable way of making that distinction. There are quiet contemplatives who achieve mastery, then go back to chopping wood. Then again there exist boisterous, rock'n roll priest types who have likewise attained mastery, and who also radiate the characteristic charismatic humility of one who has successfully tripped the lock on the peace of deep vision, now spends most of their time in joyous alignment with the Heart of the Void. Such persons also continue to 'carry water'. Absolutely. Indeed, arrival at such a juncture does not directly confer any special qualities, so says the Taoist credo..........

........Essentially, we are the INCUBATORS of 'another way'. 'Gifts' follow, but not in the way that we might think about them or expect them to emerge -- they are often unseen, but always FELT, and, as the experience proves, feeling is really the TRUE test of whether something has actually 'manifested' or not. In some ways it is anathemic to this particular trip we're on that we should imagine that anything 'obvious' or literal will manifest for us. An authentic psychophysical experience (meaningful and true in a very different way than a 'normal' kind of event, and enriching on a profound level) is hardly ever obvious to anyone -- the subtle quality of such events is really the only guide as to whether we have experienced one or not. Thus it is said that the realized Buddha, self-contained and wholly unselfconscious, both unseen marks of Self-Realization*, walked the streets, radiating, and the cherry trees blossomed as he went by. The fruit of the Work is mainly 'felt', and the crown jewel of the long process is the eventual effortless 'radiation' outwards of the Love with which we have become one on the inside. Such an undertaking benefits all creation.

multiply!
Kristin

(* just wanted to add: the process of individuation is definately not the same thing as the attainment of Self-realization..want to make sure I haven't inadvertently confused the two anywhere...)


Wow, Kristen, I had not seen yet what you wrote here a couple of weeks ago. I only saw it finally today because Jess had added a reply. When I saw what he and you were discussing, it matched my experiences over the last several days and especially a beautiful inner experience this morning of a shimmering blissful merging within of the One with the Other which also symbolised the Love union of the Unseen with the Seen and of Spirit with Nature...or whatever. I will have to describe it later.

Also, Kristin, My husband bought a statue from a catalogue without telling me about it beforehand. When he opened the package to show it to me, it looked like a Taoist figure of what happens after "enlightenment" to the individual but was at the same time an image of the happy goodluck Buddha, just like I had been recently reading about and had saved a pic to my computer to illustrate the same thing. He did not consciously know this of course, and such an item he had certainly never been interested in before until then. I had meant to add those images at the Synchronicity and Schizophrenia thread we had going a couple of years ago. Perhaps I will now be able to do that soon as I have a new scanner. Suzanne

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Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:38 pm
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