UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:44 am



 [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 Radioactivity and Nonlocality, UFOs and "ETs" 
Author Message

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 735
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Post more thoughts about too much thinking...
:?:

With the Active Imagination method so much excitement is caused in the mind that it can actually go against itself and defeat the very process which was meant to bring a healing. For some types it just adds more stimulation and does not get to the deepest base of matter. To my mind, this means it could ostensibly be even worse for the thinking types than for other types! It is almost as if the excersize itself is excessive once it reaches a certain point (or, perhaps it is ALL excess, and we have gone past the point of needing such a type of analysis - especially in the Western world...). It is a fine balance for the therapist to figure out when to stop, at any rate - this seems to be key, as MLvF so often remarks in her writing.

My sense of it is that with the AI method the analysand, the person therapized, becomes specialized like a 'piece of art' to themselves, like they, or their life, have/has become 'art', on top of, or even perhaps instead of, becoming more realized. A very strange effect indeed. It is almost like the whole process entails 'the getting of more culture', which in itself is not bad, but as a sort of progression is almost more like a 'finishing school' than an actual meat and potatoes kind of experience of getting down to the nitty gritty (the good but difficult dirt of the goddess Kali). Some people really love the process for this very reason. Certainly we all need a little more 'art' in our lives, and it is thus a refining sort of process, but at the expense of real self-liberation - what ultimate good does it do?

I only say these things from experience. I once had a friend who had been in Jungian analysis since he was quite young. His father was a Jungian depth psychologist. When I knew him he was in his late 20's, so I guess he had been in therapy since - 13? - maybe. The outcome seemed to be that he was ever more hyped up, like he was on amphetamines. He was very bright , and as a consequence his thinking/speaking mechanism was even more over-extended. He was always on the 'go' and got a big high from his sessions. Maybe he had some other problem that was not being addressed by this method. I feel this is true to this day when I think about him. So, yes, I agree that the AI can come off as a sort of 'rape', to use that very intense word, when one is a certain type, but perhaps now for everyone in the WEstern world at least, it could be detrimental.

Oh - I have just thought suddenly now, when I looked again at the intitials 'AI' , of 'Artificial Intelligence' instead.... :wink:


Kristin

_________________
"The tomb is not a blind alley; it is a thoroughfare. It closes on the twilight. It opens on the dawn." ******* (Victor Hugo)


Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:39 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Link to Kristin's dream?
Roger Faglin wrote:

The God of wrath, at the origins of the three main religious streams of nowadays (YHVH) is a very unconscious power force and not really related, he who made a deal with the Bad One to 'tease' Job - Job who should be considered as the precursor of the individuating human.



Had not Job been pursued by the torture of this very immoral God, he would not have been driven to some individuation.

Thus out of the unconscious Godhead some increase of consciousness is activated in a human being. This increase of consciousness eventually has an effect on the Godhead who later will send his divine son to 'redeem' men (and God), that is to say to help in the propagation of a deeper consciousness that will have further effects on the Godhead...

This is a symbolic interpretation of Job by Jung and Edinger.

The point is that this interpretation carries the idea of some causal dialectics. I do not believe in the causal aspect though. Nothing was written in advance. It could or could not have worked that way. To me the clash between the two 'layers' of unconsciousness (Job's and God's) brought a new situation as some inner quantum leap. Nature could have made much more attempts before that path was found.
It is like water finding its way. We know it will eventually flow, but the path has to be found...

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:54 am
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Roger

Roger Faglin wrote:
Had not Job been pursued by the torture of this very immoral God, he would not have been driven to some individuation.

Thus out of the unconscious Godhead some increase of consciousness is activated in a human being. This increase of consciousness eventually has an effect on the Godhead who later will send his divine son to 'redeem' men (and God), that is to say to help in the propagation of a deeper consciousness that will have further effects on the Godhead...

This is a symbolic interpretation of Job by Jung and Edinger.

The point is that this interpretation carries the idea of some causal dialectic. I do not believe in the causal aspect though. Nothing was written in advance. It could or could not have worked that way. To me the clash between the two 'layers' of unconsciousness (Job's and God's) brought a new situation as some inner quantum leap. Nature could have made much more many attempts before that path was found.
It is like water finding its way. We know it will eventually flow, but the path has to be found...


This is a very intriguing topic. Jung and Edinger did however not yet understand that we cannot talk of a consciousness of God. Though Jung postulates that God is unconscious, this is not the whole truth. His God must be partly conscious, since he has what he calls the preconscious or absolute knowledge.

All such formulations are of course mere metaphysics -- or scholastic speculations. Not too many people know however that since the invention of quantum physics we have also a new epistemology. It is an epistemology which is applicable to science as well as to religious/historical thoughts.

In some letters Pauli deals in a very deep way with this aspect of the theological speculations about God, the God-image (Jung) or the Self. He shows that we cannot postulate anything about what we call "God" or the "unconscious", since such "beings" are -- as is the quantum physical wave function -- mere potential being (Aristotle). About a potential being we cannot however make any statement.

In the late letters to Jung (Atom and Archetype) Pauli discusses this standpoint very intensely. Jung as a Kantian always argues with being and nonbeing, or as he calls it, with the ascertainable and the nonascertainable. For Pauli as a quantum physicist there exists however also the potential being. In contrast to Jung he defines the collective unconscious not as being [this is Jung's violation of epistemological principles], but as potential being. The definition of the c.u. as being, as Jung does, is in the eyes of Pauli a severe violation of epistemological principles [This is a very heavy critizism of Pauli at Jung, since he postulates implicitely that Jung's psychology is metaphysics].

If the unconscious is however defined as potential being, we cannot state anything about it anymore. Thus, especially we cannot state anymore that it has a preconscious knowledge. The god of Pauli is thus "not even wrong"; we cannot just say anything about him.

But -- and this is the incredible important new thought of Pauli -- we can have a look if we find observable events, in which this potential being becomes actual being. It is the same act as the so-called act of measurement in quantum physics, in which the wave function, ie potential being without any real existance, collapses. Like this out of the many hypothetical possibilities, which the wave function describes, the real particle is created.


In the same way we should look at our relationship with the unconscious (more exactly: with the unus mundus). This means that we have to look for what I call singular acausal quantum leaps in our inside (or if we do not it can happen that we are forced to observe them in UFO/"ET" events). This is the main idea behind my Body-Centered Imagination.

However, for the observation of such singular quantum leaps we have to abandon the Logos ego and enter the Eros ego, since such quantum leaps happen out of the unus mundus, ie the Eros Self, and only the Eros ego is able to observe this realm (deeper or beyond the collective unconscious).

The very decisive revolution that happens like this is the fact that science and religiosity come together -- what I call the New Mysticism: We develop an observation procedure, which is a scientific attitude, to observe the transformation of potential being ("psychophysical wave function"; unus mundus) into actual being (the result of the inner quantum leap). The latter is the process in which "God becomes man," the incarnation.

Like this we experience the miracle that we become on the one hand more conscious on the level of our mind, on the other hand that we incarnate a "something" on the physical level, ie help an incarnation (of what I call the world soul). It seems however, that also the "inhabitants" of the unus mundus, of the Beyond, become more conscious on the one hand, and become "more bodily" on the other (their subtle body is increased). This is what happens today unconsciously in UFO encounter and especially in the abduction phenomenology! In them the victims are thrown into the Eros consciousness and forced to observe this (real!) incarnation.

What I describe here is my the modern interpretation of the essence of Isaak Luria's Cabbala. Without yet knowing the above epistemological arguments of Wolfgang Pauli, I wrote already in the early eigthies (in my book I Cercatori di Dio (The Quest for God):

Quote:
"An impressive example of the archetype of the transformation of the image of God -- which means also a New Genesis -- we find in the Kabbalah of Isaac Luria (1534-1572): When God created the ten-fold tree of the Sefiroth -- a gnostic image of the Anthropos (God-man) -- only the first three Sefiroth were strong enough to absorb the Divine Light.

The rest were too weak and broke whereby they were swallowed by the demonic forces and matter. With this disintegration of the Anthropos A STATE OF NON-REDEMPTION OF MAN AND GOD was created. Therefore man has the challenge of the so-called 'tikkun', the restitution of the Anthropos (God-man) in his wholeness.

IN THIS WAY EVERY HUMAN BEING ASSISTS THE GODHEAD WITH THE REVERSAL OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD'S CREATION


When we contemplate the disaster of today's world, the thought could come that such a method could be the greatest and very last attempt to rescue mankind.

Carl G. Jung was excited about this idea of Luria's Kabbalah. He realized in it a mystical correspondence to his individuation process, discovered in empirical experience.

He writes in a letter: 'HERE THE THOUGHT ARISES FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT MAN MUST HELP GOD TO REPAIR THE HARM WHICH CREATION HAS DONE. FOR THE FIRST TIME THE COSMIC RESPONSIBILITY OF MAN IS APPRECIATED.' "


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:25 am
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Thank you very much, Remo, for this very clear statement.

You explained out my feeling very well ...

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:55 am
Profile Personal album
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Minnesota
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Hi to Remo, Roger, & all

Remo Roth wrote:
Like this we experience the miracle that we become on the one hand more conscious on the level of our mind, on the other hand that we incarnate a "something" on the physical level, ie help an incarnation (of what I call the world soul). It seems however, that also the "inhabitants" of the unus mundus, of the Beyond, become more conscious on the one hand, and become "more bodily" on the other (their subtle body is increased). This is what happens today unconsciously in UFO encounter and especially in the abduction phenomenology! In them the victims are thrown into the Eros consciousness and forced to observe this (real!) incarnation.


By engaging in BCI we affect the world of the Unus Mundus and it's inhabitants.
Now, as existing in a timeless & spaceless condition ("We are everywhere all the time") how might the inhabitants -the UFOnauts, the dead?- perceive our world from their state of existence? How are they aware of us, how do we appear to them? Is this world more visible to them in a way we don't understand? Since they are a very active crowd, as UFO sighting reports indicate, and manifest themselves into our physical reality on what appears to be a continuous basis, how does a consciousness unbounded by locality interact with the time & space-bound physical world? They can obviously come "here" easier than we can go "there". Is the physical world a subset of the Unus Mundus or is the physical world a subset of it? Since by BCI we perceive the Unus Mundus, is there a component of ourselves that exists simultaneously in the physical world of locality and the non-local world of the Unus Mundus?

Chris


Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:27 pm
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Chris

Christopher Ross wrote:
("We are everywhere all the time")


Very good questions. I am thinking about them and try to answer.

Question: Is the above an experience of a statement of UFOnauts. Did they say such a thing to some human? Or is this your statement?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:20 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Minnesota
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Remo Roth wrote:
Chris

Christopher Ross wrote:
("We are everywhere all the time")


Very good questions. I am thinking about them and try to answer.

Question: Is the above an experience of a statement of UFOnauts. Did they say such a thing to some human? Or is this your statement?

Remo


Hi Remo

That statement was made by a landed "UFOnaut" to a witness when asked what made the "flying saucer" fly. The full quote is "We don't move, we are everywhere all the time."
Similar statements have been made by UFOnauts about the ultimate nature of time and our inability to understand it.

Chris


Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:49 pm
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post How are they aware of us?
Chris

Christopher Ross wrote:
By engaging in BCI we affect the world of the Unus Mundus and it's inhabitants.
Now, as existing in a timeless & spaceless condition ("We are everywhere all the time") how might the inhabitants - the UFOnauts, the dead? - perceive our world from their state of existence? How are they aware of us, how do we appear to them?


First I should say that I do not have definite answers yet.

A world without space, time and mass we cannot of course imagine like we still do, for example in religious statements. God is surely not an old man (God father) and/or a young man (Jesus Christ) and/or a dove (The Holy Ghost). Such statements belong to the above mentioned violation of epistemological principles, or expressed in Marie-Louise von Franz' ironic words: "People who talk like this have had tea with God Himself. This is why they know all this."

Thus, from the epistemological standpoint we must conclude that we cannot say anything about this world. But we can say something about the "people" and their "technology" as soon as they enter the consciousness of a human. This is the case in UFO encounter and abduction.

This is why it is and will be so important to carefully collect all these experiences, since with them we have empirical "material" which could once tell us not how the unus mundus looks like, but how the "intermediate world" in which these UFOnauts and their technological tools incarnate looks like. [Like this I have implicitely defined a difference between the nonobservable unus mundus and the observable intermediate world]

These beings temporarely (?) incarnated into this intermediate world -- how are they aware of us? It seems that they do not have what we call the Central Nervous System. This is perhaps why their heads mostly don't have ears and a mouth, and only "empty" eyes without a pupil. This is why they communicate telepathically with the "victims." Telepathy is a form of communication in which distances and the distinction between outside and inside are absent -- exactly one aspect of the spaceless, timeless and massless and nonlocal unus mundus.

It seems now very obvious that these "UFOnauts" need our Sympathetic Nervous System (in German: Vegetative Nervous System) to communicate with us, since telepathy happens with the help of our "gut brain" (SNS), and not with the help of the CNS.

Our "gut brain" is however much more related to what I call the Eros consciousness. Like this the human heart comes in, which in almost every mysticism is the place where god and man meet. This is why we have such statements of them that their communication with us happens with the help of man's and their heart. [See Steven Spielberg's movie "E.T.", in which the boy -- still in what I call the Eros ego -- has the only real relationship with the ET.]

But now the trouble comes. If the "ETs" speak eg of the heart, they do not really speak of a physical heart they have. In fact since they "live" in the unus mundus, they don't have a language either. Thus, they try to communicate with us by using our language. We should however consider that this is a completely symbolic language. Thus "heart" means what I call the Eros consciousness.

The Eros consciousness represses thinking consciously during the BCI (or unconsciously during the encounter or abduction). Thus the question arises what such a consciousness could do during its "experiment." The conclusion I have drawn is that mostly we are in danger to behave with the help of a wrong attitude. We are used to ask questions. This is wrong since asking questions is thinking, and thinking seems to be forbidden in the relationship with the "ETs".

Thus what could we do? With the help of visions of some people [These visions seem to be the empirical proof of such a relationship of the Eros ego with the "people" in the Beyond or more exactly: in this intermediate world], I state that our job is just to observe what happens. It is the Wu Wei state of Eastern (and also Western) mysticism. If we just observe, these "ETs" seem to behave, ie they accomplish actions or observe events which try to show them and/or us in a symbolic language what happens.

An example. I know a physicist who has many such visions. In them he and/or the "inhabitants of the other world" move in a very strange way or observe such strange motions. It is a motion in right angles. They walk or fly a short distance in a certain direction, suddenly change the direction in a right angle, and so on. This zig zag is very typical.

Quantum physics describes the collapse of the wave function, in which the only potential world incarnates as a particle exactly as a rotation of 90 degrees (from the imaginary (!) axis to the real (!) axis of the coordinate system (of the so called complex plane). Like this I began to understand that with these motions the "ETs" try to show to us that what happens during these visions is an incarnation (as described above), similar to the incarnation that happens when the wave function of quantum physics collapses. The potential world they “live in” becomes real, or at least a potential “being” (“ET”) and/or a “technological tool” of this world of the Beyond becomes real, ie incarnate out of the spaceless, timeless, massless and nonlocal world into our world.

I guess I stop here, since this post is already too long.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:49 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
That statement was made by a landed "UFOnaut" to a witness when asked what made the "flying saucer" fly. The full quote is "We don't move, we are everywhere all the time."
Similar statements have been made by UFOnauts about the ultimate nature of time and our inability to understand it.


Such statements are what I mean with the observation of the "ETs". With the help of them we can slowly decode what this strange intermediate world looks like.

One should know if the witness had already such thoughts in mind, ie if he imagined already such a spaceless, timeless and massless world. I guess that the "ETs" can only develop such statements if our consciousness has already some ideas how the other world looks like. Thus, what I imagine is a dialectical process in which both sides learn from each other. The "ETs" "have" the potential knowledge, do however not know anything about their knowledge -- very strange, but it seems to be like this --, we on the other side have some old-fashioned worldview which we should revise (with the help of archetypal dreams about the subject). Thus, this renewal is symbolically represented in dreams, eg in the dreams of Wolfgang Pauli. I had also such dreams, did however not understand them for a very long time. I amplified and amplified, and like this some sort of an inner network was created. Suddenly, after perhaps 20 years or more, the new worldview was "installed" in my consciousness [it was exactly on 7/7/2003], and this intense and long dream series stopped.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:04 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
Is this world more visible to them in a way we don't understand?


This is a question we cannot answer if we bear in mind my above conclusions concerning the epistemology. Only further interactions with the "ETs", ie observations of them and their actions in the state of the Eros consciousness will give us some further information.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:59 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
Since they are a very active crowd, as UFO sighting reports indicate, and manifest themselves into our physical reality on what appears to be a continuous basis, how does a consciousness unbounded by locality interact with the time & space-bound physical world?


"A consciousness unbounded by locality interact[ing] with the time & space-bound physical world" does not exist, or at least we cannot say anything about such a "thing". Such a statement would belong to the above mentioned metaphysical statements violating modern epistemological principles.

On the basis of observations we can at least say that out of this world on the one hand "ETs" not comparable with deceased humans incarnate into this intermediate world, but also deceased humans (in my experience especially Carl Jung, Wolfgang Pauli and Marie-Louise von Franz), and that both "sorts" are observable with the help of the Eros ego.

The difference seems to be that the "ETs" and their UFOs try to transfer new potential knowledge (unconscious to themselves) and/or "technology" into our world by using our Sympathetic Nervous System. The deceased, however, seem to like to learn from us yet living. There seems thus to be a difference between the two: The "ETs" represent new conscious insight, "new living matter" and a future "technology" according to completely new physical laws, the deceased on the contrary would like to learn from us, at least from creative living people, who have found new knowledge.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:16 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Redemption of Evil?
Further -- and this seems to be an almost incredible revolution -- with the help of such observations in the state of the Eros ego, it seems possible that the negative karma of such devilish people in the Beyond like Hitler, Stalin, and so on can be dissolved (liquidated?).

I do not state this as a mere hypothesis, but on the background of visions I have seen, in which such people come back to the mystic and thank her/him for her/his task.

But at this point I reach a limit, as well on the intellectual level as also on the feeling level. Developments like this would just be one of the greatest miracles mankind has ever seen.

However, such developments seem to correspond to Isaak Luria's deepstest intuitions (see above).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:21 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
Since they are a very active crowd, as UFO sighting reports indicate, and manifest themselves into our physical reality on what appears to be a continuous basis ...


If my hypothesis is true that radioactivity is on a deeper, psychophysical level the first of what I call the twin process of Hermetic alchemy, in which physical energy transforms into the "energy" of the unus mundus with potentially higher negentropy, which replaces on this level the so-called antineutrino invented by Wolfgang Pauli (for which invention he payed with a horrible neurosis), and the second of the twin process is the realization of this energy of higher negentropy ("higher live essence") in our world, then we must conclude that the more radioactivity we liberate the more UFO/"ET" events we will observe [UFO encounter and abduction happens however in waves, and for the moment we experience a trough of the sea]. This is why this activity has grown exponentially since 1945 (since the Trinity bomb).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:33 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
They can obviously come "here" easier than we can go "there".


If they come "here", they enter what I call the intermediate world. This is why all these phenomena are not stable. Also all the matter one has found dissolves after some time, as much as I know. It is a provisional world since it is not yet exactly the right process. Since the "victims" are yet too much in what I call the Logos ego, they are forced into the Eros ego, and in it they experience these phenomena in the outer or in an "outer/inner" world (the latter in abduction). If they would withdraw the projection of the ET -- ie see "ETs" not as extraterrestrals but as coming from the unus mundus, from a higher dimension "only indirectly inferable" (Pauli) -- the "victims" would become able to experience the real process in their own guts and heart.

Thus, in fact the "ETs" do not come "here", but the "victims" are forced into an altered state of consciousness, in which they can observe these incarnations out of the unus mundus, the other dimension(s). The incarnations happen however here and everywhere, it seems.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:55 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
Is the physical world a subset of the Unus Mundus or is the physical world a subset of it?


No, we cannot say that. The physical world is Einstein's spacetime continuum, a causal world. The unus mundus is the "other world", unknown, unknowable. This is why I compare this world also with the Beyond.

The best image we have of these two worlds we find in the so-called superstring theory of physics. This is a theory which tries to unify the causal Einsteinian world (4 dimensions) with the acausal quantum world. For the latter they need 6 dimensions of a "different" space, which is however infinitely small, but nonlocal (ie everywhere), since the background of quantum physics is nonlocal. It is the "smaller than small, and bigger than big" of a Medieval definition of God. There are however no empirical proofs for the existence of such a (completely physically understood) world. It's mere speculation!

However, isn't it strange that the background of the theory, the 4 + 6 dimensions, looks a little like the denarius of the Rosarium philosophorum ??? The king/queen is 2x3, and in its hand it holds 3 + 1 snakes.

Image

Thus, with the help of a unification theory, in which it tries to combine causality and acausality, physics comes unconsciously back to Hermetic alchemy (Rosarium). It is exactly what I showed as one of the most important meanings of Wolfgang Pauli's Fludd/flood synchronicity at the foundation ceremony of the C.G. Jung Institute, Zurich in 1948; see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_f ... ync.htm#a1 .

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:08 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Christopher Ross wrote:
Since by BCI we perceive the Unus Mundus, is there a component of ourselves that exists simultaneously in the physical world of locality and the non-local world of the Unus Mundus?


Yes, if one has suffered the process of the "Die before you die!", the Islamic Sufis talk of. This is also why the abduction phenomenology is so close to Near Death Experience (NDE). It is the world a modern mystic lives in.

I guess that the UFO/"ET" phenomenology is the beginning of such a new mysticism. The necessary condition for its development is however that the projection onto the "ETs" (see above) is withdrawn.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:20 am
Profile WWW
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Redemption of Evil?
Remo Roth wrote:
Further -- and this seems to be an almost incredible revolution -- with the help of such observations in the state of the Eros ego, it seems possible that the negative karma of such devilish people in the Beyond like Hitler, Stalin, and so on can be dissolved (liquidated?).

I do not state this as a mere hypothesis, but on the background of visions I have seen, in which such people come back to the mystic and thank her/him for her/his task.

But at this point I reach a limit, as well on the intellectual level as also on the feeling level. Developments like this would just be one of the greatest miracles mankind has ever seen.

However, such developments seem to correspond to Isaak Luria's deepstest intuitions (see above).

Remo


Yes. This relates directly with the end of my Seal of Solomon dream, see
http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=483#483

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:39 am
Profile Personal album
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Remo Roth wrote:
Christopher Ross wrote:
guts and heart.

Thus, in fact the "ETs" do not come "here", but the "victims" are forced into an altered state of consciousness, in which they can observe these incarnations out of the unus mundus, the other dimension(s). The incarnations happen however here and everywhere, it seems.

Remo


Yes. We must be vey careful no to make a concrete 'anthropomorphic' [Logos] reading of these phenomena which would be a projection. Such a projection is of course a deep obstacle preventing a real observing (Wou Wei) attitude.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:42 am
Profile Personal album
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Re: Modern Mysticism = BCI and UFO/"ET" experience
Remo Roth wrote:
However, isn't it strange that the background of the theory, the 4 + 6 dimensions, looks a little like the denarius of the Rosarium philosophorum ??? The king/queen is 2x3, and in its hand it holds 3 + 1 snakes.

Image

Thus, with the help of a unification theory, in which it tries to combine causality and acausality, physics comes unconsciously back to Hermetic alchemy (Rosarium). It is exactly what I showed as one of the most important meanings of Wolfgang Pauli's Fludd/flood synchronicity at the foundation ceremony of the C.G. Jung Institute, Zurich in 1948; see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_f ... ync.htm#a1 .

Remo


Indeed, it seems that whatever the efforts towards an external understanding of the universe, any world conception finds backs unconsciously the structural images popping out of the Unus Mundus such as we can observe them in Eros consciousness.

see for instance: http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/gslecture_rome_e_p1b.htm#12

Quote:
The physicist’s technological tools for empirically proving the theories of quantum physics, their epistemological instruments, are the so-called accelerator and the bubble chamber (which are replaced today by the accumulation rings and their detectors). In the accelerator, in which a nearly total vacuum prevails, elementary particles are accelerated and like this provided with an extremely high amount of energy. These accelerated elementary particles are then steered into the bubble chamber. The bubble chamber contains liquid oxygen, which is kept at a temperature a little under its boiling point. Therein the accelerated particles now collide with a proton or a neutron of an oxygen atom. The high energy exchange causes these particles to mutually destroy themselves and by this to create new ones containing higher mass.

The accelerator is therefore a necessary condition for the production of new elementary particles of higher mass, and can thus simulate the natural processes in nature happening closer to the creation of the universe in the supposed big bang, i.e., in the very youth of it some billion years ago. However, this technical masterpiece is characterized by the fact that it will never again release those particles once locked in it into the external world. If it were a human we would say that such an accelerator has cut off totally from the relationship with the outside and is concentrated one hundred percent on his inside.

When we look at this fact with the help of depth psychology’s definitions, we can say that the accelerator symbolizes an extreme introversion. On the other hand we have seen that physics and natural science in general detract from the inner world of the scientist, i.e., represses it. Therefore, symbolically seen the missing introverted consciousness of the physicist reappears in the external world as the accelerator, i.e., the former is projected onto the idea of constructing this epistemological tool.

Further, the accelerator contains a nearly one hundred percent vacuum. Such a vacuum we can symbolically interpret as some sort of an "empty consciousness." Because today’s scientific consciousness is identified with the Logos, i.e., with the psychological functions of extraverted sensation and thinking (Carl Jung), the psychological interpretation of the vacuum leads to the necessity of finding an introverted procedure for emptying the Logos consciousness.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:50 am
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Redemption of Evil?
Roger Faglin wrote:
A lot of people were gathered in front of a pyre ... I walked to something like an oven (an athanor, in fact) out of which I took with my bare hands an object enveloped in something like clay ...

... two women and a man. I marked each of them with the seal ...

Then, I was under the pyre, made of straw and wood and corpses. These were the bodies of all the despotic figures of the history of humanity. Among them, I seized Hitler’s body and shouted to them all: “You, bloody bastards all of you, you were touched by Holy Grace, and see what you made of it. Now you are going to burn once for all.”


Together with my dream in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=106 we can perhaps say that the athanor is the belly, and if we do BCI (in the right manner) the athanor/belly is nonlocally connected to the pyre made of the corpse of evil. Like this evil is "burnt" ie purified.

The redemption of evil?

Remo

See also http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#836

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:42 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Minnesota
Post 
Remo & Roger,

Thank you, both, very much for your enlightening and very appreciated input.

Chris


Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:56 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post 
Christopher Ross wrote:
Remo & Roger,

Thank you, both, very much for your enlightening and very appreciated input.

Chris


Thank you, Christopher, for joining us and having the courage to present your incredible experiences in public.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:00 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: How are they aware of us?
Remo Roth wrote:
These beings temporarely (?) incarnated into this intermediate world -- how are they aware of us? It seems that they do not have what we call the Central Nervous System. This is perhaps why their heads mostly don't have ears and a mouth, and only "empty" eyes without a pupil. This is why they communicate telepathically with the "victims." Telepathy is a form of communication in which distances and the distinction between outside and inside are absent -- exactly one aspect of the spaceless, timeless and massless and nonlocal unus mundus.

It seems now very obvious that these "UFOnauts" need our Sympathetic Nervous System (in German: Vegetative Nervous System) to communicate with us, since telepathy happens with the help of our "gut brain" (SNS), and not with the help of the CNS.

Our "gut brain" is however much more related to what I call the Eros consciousness. Like this the human heart comes in, which in almost every mysticism is the place where god and man meet. This is why we have such statements of them that their communication with us happens with the help of man's and their heart. [See Steven Spielberg's movie "E.T.", in which the boy -- still in what I call the Eros ego -- has the only real relationship with the ET.]


All this was already in Nicholas von Flue's vision of the terrible face of God and in his Radbild (wheel image) he created as a result of this vision:

Image

Image

Can you imagine how this man suffered, since it was completely impossible for him -- he lived 1417 - 1487 -- to understand this vision?

Remo

See also http://www.psychovision.ch/rfr/radbilde.htm

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:16 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Redemption of Evil?
Remo Roth wrote:
Together with my dream in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=106 we can perhaps say that the athanor is the belly, and if we do BCI (in the right manner) the athanor/belly is nonlocally connected to the pyre made of the corpse of evil. Like this evil is "burnt" ie purified.

The redemption of evil?


Perhaps I should stress here that these conclusions are not just speculations without any empirical basis. On the contrary, I guess there is some empirical verification I collected. On the other hand, it were these visions/jouneys, which helped me to develop my theory.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:12 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 735
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Post black box imagery, aliens and radioactivity
It doesn't seem too far off, given the recent conversation on this thread, to bring up the following topic. I am sure that Chris may know something more about it, but I will simply make mention of what I have read and leave it to others to speculate further.

I refer here to the imagery of the so-called 'black box' found in many alien abduction experiences. I have found an article on this topic which is very helpful, in that it brings together the many, varied experiences which feature 'black box' imagery in E.T. and UFO literature. The article, which is quite long, can be read here:

http://www.thothweb.com/content-394.html

The article is entitled "Aliens use of the Multi-Faceted Black Box", and it does bring to mind other items I have read in this regard ( to those with whom it might ring a bell, particularly the now deceased UFOlogist John Mack and an experience he had in this respect (I think it was posted on Whitely Strieber's "Unknown Country" website)).

I enter this line of thought here since we are discussing the connection between radiation and ET sightings and so forth, and the 'Black Box' has been thought, in many abduction cases and sightings, to be connected somehow with this aspect of radioactivity. In addition, I am interested in how the idea of a Black Box can be seen to metaphorically correspond perhaps to the actual alchemic Athanor (to which Remo refers above) , and even more specifically that other 'Athanor', the human belly, and all that this implies for the idea of inner radiation and the ongoing act of personal integration.

Perhaps this idea is a bit far out, but somehow it seems pertinent to our probing of the idea of an inner work which represents in some way, as Remo has suggested, the possible 'redemption of evil' in our world. Could we not utilize our own 'black box' as a tool of redemption, is what I am asking here, if indeed the Belly does correspond in some way to the idea of the 'black box'. After all, it appears that people 'project' somehow onto the black box in their ET encounters, not seeming to ever know exactly what it means or how it operates at all. Indeed, the black box is seen most usually as something fearful and dangerous - . This I would think means that we are afraid of our own inner depth, our own inner darkness, the place where the BCI takes place and the seat of Eros Consciousness (non-Logos enlightenment).

People always think of the dark as dangerous. Interesting, eh? But is the dark not also serene, calming, sweet in this sense, beautiful, soft and so forth. Yes. It is only those who demand constant stimulation who would seek to avoid such a concept at all costs - this would present them with the ultimate dread: that of the annhilation of their logos ego-state...
How could someone in this state of mind defer to the dark and make it 'their friend'? How could they be brought to the place of the secret 11th Sephira, Da-ath, the ultimate Black Box, with a thought toward it's beauty? They cannot, hence perhaps the ongoing projection onto the 'dark' - the black box.

And from here arises the idea of Pandora's box - it too is a 'black box' - But we have vilified it - the 'dark' has become that which is suspect, is dangerous, hence the place from which all evil comes forth. Pandoras Box is thus the box where from all 'evil', all manner of difficulty and trouble pours forth. Or is it, in truth? Originally, perhaps, it was just the box which held 'Chaos' within. And then 'chaos' (a complicated, multi-faceted word) was made simply to mean all that was difficult, all that was unmanageable and hence 'evil' - in other words, the Priestess, the Goddess energy itself, was made to be equated with trouble, with 'evil' - and Chaos, that all-encompassing subtle word, was reduced to having just one meaning, now in service to the Patriarch, Authority itself, the archetype which would establish control at all costs. Thus was the original profound Feminine, the abundant yin aspect of all life, denigrated. And now we cannot seem to enter our Bellies any more, which is connected to the heart energy, to Love, without fear -( the fear of an unamed 'evil' , the fear of 'the Dark').

In fact, the Dark is the place of ALL healing, where all healing ultimately takes place. The dark is the 'acausal' location of all possibility, apparently now the only location of our best possible action (actually, 'non-action' - ! -the wu wei attitude of inner observation) against a nuclear catastophe that could bring our amazing world to an abrupt end. We can mitigate the externality of the world, co-create with and help Source/the GodHead, and come to personal freedom all by means of our own inner energy, our own inner faculty of 'radiation', but we in order to do this we must overcome our irrational, misplaced fear. It seems this is only for a certain type of person to do. Many may never come to this work of all-important integration, alas. Even now so many find it impossible to even embrace the concept of of Light within the Dark - that inner spark which could help to save the world, the flame of the Heart.

There are many implications posted here - the article on the 'black box' raises others still...


Kristin

_________________
"The tomb is not a blind alley; it is a thoroughfare. It closes on the twilight. It opens on the dawn." ******* (Victor Hugo)


Tue May 02, 2006 12:53 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 735
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Post more thoughts
....perhaps it is unnecessary to add here that the 'black box', so maligned and feared, has been projected onto the female (as stated) hence the uterus becomes the black box, that dangerous place of no-return (as cited so often in psychological literature). Remo's magical sculpture Sulamith raises this much maligned 'box', more truly a deep black 'hole', back again to its' original stature, as true metaphor for the incredible depth and ultimate beauty of Chaos (see the related Sulamith thread on the unus mundus forum site...).

Most will not face the dark quite so honestly in their lives. As a culture we spend all of our time trying to 'get away' from the 'black box' - we want no quiet, no calm, no downtime in our lives, because if we do encounter this aspect we will encounter ourselves, or rather, the 'lack' of ourselves - we will encounter our 'not-selves', true to the Tao in every respect. But some have discovered that, ironically, it is this very annihlation of the logos-ego which results in a true HEALING and we can wonderously enough heal Source along with us when we accept the task and take this lonely path, just as Carl Jung pointed out with his reading of Issac Luria's intuitions regarding the Kabbala (remarked upon above and elsewhere by Remo) .

We are all 'wounded ones', as souls on this earth plane, and the wounded ones are always the best healers! We can, through our wounding and redemption, heal even Souce('God') and thus all the so-called 'evil' the world has created by our timely 'action in non-action' (as shown above). If it begins to sound religious, it truly is not - it is more about MAGIC, the magic quotient of the Eros Ego, as Remo describes it (his new theory) and as quantumn physics and string theory now attests. The story of the wounded healer is the story of every one of our lives, if we could but SEE it - the stories of Jesus, Osiris and so on through all the heroes of history - each one is our story personally. All those stories, and hence our own stories, are virtually identical in almost every respect - it behooves us to give this some thought. Because whatever it was that eventually healed the heroes of myth, is what can eventually also heal US...We must read between the lines, read symbolically, and uncover the "holy wedding' implied in all mythology in order to understand this truth. Remo's use of the hermetic coniunctio and the BCI method as an example of what could heal us now, body and soul, presents pragmatic guidance along these lines for all to access. What we can learn from observing our dreams and ET/UFO accounts can only aid us in this ongoing progress.

_________________
"The tomb is not a blind alley; it is a thoroughfare. It closes on the twilight. It opens on the dawn." ******* (Victor Hugo)


Tue May 02, 2006 1:25 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Minnesota
Post Re: black box imagery, aliens and radioactivity
kristin wrote:
It doesn't seem too far off, given the recent conversation on this thread, to bring up the following topic. I am sure that Chris may know something more about it, but I will simply make mention of what I have read and leave it to others to speculate further.

I refer here to the imagery of the so-called 'black box' found in many alien abduction experiences. I have found an article on this topic which is very helpful, in that it brings together the many, varied experiences which feature 'black box' imagery in E.T. and UFO literature...

I enter this line of thought here since we are discussing the connection between radiation and ET sightings and so forth, and the 'Black Box' has been thought, in many abduction cases and sightings, to be connected somehow with this aspect of radioactivity.
Kristin


Interesting article.
Actually, I am familiar with just such black boxes.

In my childhood encounter with the entities I called the A-Bomb Men who stood lined up in a row in front of a landed disk, I saw that each of them wore a belt that ran diagonally from their left shoulder across their chest to their waist; upon this diagonal belt was a black box. What function it served is unknown. Why I called them them the A-Bomb Men, I do not know. What I do know is that I have a living relative who worked on the fabrication of the uranium and plutonium cores of the primordial nuclear weapons unleashed on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and who witnessed the detonation of the Trinity device. He also witnessed a silvery disk hovering over the Los Alamos facility during the developement phase of his work there.

The A-Bomb Man has appeared in two significant dreams I have had:
In the first, a voice tells me that my mother knows the secret of the A-Bomb Men. As a young woman, my mother was taken into a disk that landed several yards away from her by human-appearing men wearing unusual military-style uniforms, yet she is not familiar with the type of entities I called the A-Bomb Men.
In the second, I walk down a tunnel that leads underground; at the end stands an A-Bomb Man who tells me that they're coming back for me.

I've had dreams of watching nuclear explosions in which I repeat phrases that I later learned were said by J. R. Oppenheimer on the morning of the Trinity detonation, and which I could not possibly have known about at the time of my dreams.

What is expressing itself in my life, I cannot say.


Chris


Tue May 02, 2006 5:55 am
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:06 am
Posts: 717
Images: 1
Location: France
Post Black box
If you have a look at my spiders dreams (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=347#347), you'll notice that at one moment I 'climb' a very strange black monolith I associate with the black monolith appearing at the beginning of the film '2001 a space odyssey'
In the film, the monolith seems to have avery important influence on the development of humanity.

I agree of course with the idea that black is usually considered as fearful and evil, and that blackness is also the path to a new life.

Black is exactly where the analytic (Logos) pretention loses itself. One cannot cut blackness into pieces, blackness is a whole where only feeling can evolve.

In alchemy it corresponds to the phase where thinking disintegrates.

So the black box would be linked with the acceptation of Eros consciousness as the 'screen' where images can spread.

When I 'go down' into my belly, everything is black at first.

I suppose it is the inner 'colour' of the athanor.

Something I forgot to mention in my seal of Solomon dream (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=483#483) is that the whole dream happens at night but there is some kind of light coming out of the darkness that illuminates the scene.

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue May 02, 2006 7:05 am
Profile Personal album
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: black box imagery, aliens and radioactivity
Christopher Ross wrote:
Actually, I am familiar with just such black boxes. ... What is expressing itself in my life, I cannot say.


Chris

I guess the black box is the unus mundus out of which new creation and incarnation happens. This black box is however only consciously observable in one's own belly (and heart).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 4:08 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Black box
Roger Faglin wrote:
If you have a look at my spiders dreams (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=347#347), you'll notice that at one moment I 'climb' a very strange black monolith I associate with the black monolith appearing at the beginning of the film '2001 a space odyssey'
In the film, the monolith seems to have avery important influence on the development of humanity.


Yes, the monolith is one whole thing, the unus mundus. It is the black box, since we can feel that something happens when we observe it, but we don't exactly know what it is. However, in the moment we have observed a singular inner quantum leap, the multiplicatio has happend. This is why the monolith has "a very important influence on the development of humanity."

Quote:
When I 'go down' into my belly, everything is black at first.


Yes, and then we think this is a nothing. But out of the "nothing" comes everything. It is the black hole, and in fact Penrose and Hawking (Hawing radiation) have found out and proven that the black hole creates new particles. The blackness is also the quantum physical vacuum, which is however not empty, but full of so-called virtual particles ("Zero point energy). The latters become real as soon as energy is added to them. On the psychophysical level this energy is the Eros consciousness.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 4:15 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: black box imagery, aliens and radioactivity
kristin wrote:
I enter this line of thought here since we are discussing the connection between radiation and ET sightings and so forth, and the 'Black Box' has been thought, in many abduction cases and sightings, to be connected somehow with this aspect of radioactivity. In addition, I am interested in how the idea of a Black Box can be seen to metaphorically correspond perhaps to the actual alchemic Athanor (to which Remo refers above) , and even more specifically that other 'Athanor', the human belly, and all that this implies for the idea of inner radiation and the ongoing act of personal integration.


Yes, Kristin, this is my hope, and I dreamt dreams which talk about such a challenge and hope. It is not the extraverted demonstration against the "rulers of this world" anymore, but the connection with the "inner Athanor", the unus mundus which does not have any space, time and mass in the physical meaning, but is eternal, an point-space/all-space unity and a subtle body as the real background of our world, the "always/everywhere" as I also call it.

More and more I see that all this developed in me when I was in the cast in the mountains in Davos. As a 5 1/2 year's old boy I must have had incredible fears, when I was suddenly alone in an alien (!) place, without my mother and without my siblings. It seems that I -- completely unconsciously -- transformed these dreads and terrors -- funny that in English you have this word for a big fear! In German we do not use it in this way -- into a connection with the Athanor in the belly. I even remember that I scratched my belly (in the cast) with big knitting needles. This is why I know that it was my belly, which was the center of my world, the Athanor, the black box.

Remo

PS: Spinning on at the above terror idea, one could say that Bush's war against terrorism is the war against the big but completely unconscious fear, the dread, the terror in himself. Horrible to realize how unconscious these people are, and how they because of their unconsciousness provoke the apocalypse.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 4:40 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:35 am
Posts: 49
Post 
The recent Hubble experiment was described as the collision of 2 black holes producing "gravity waves" (that travel at the speed of light) that can be perhaps measured for the first time by one of the Hubble cameras.


Wed May 03, 2006 4:58 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:27 am
Posts: 735
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Post inner space="outer space"
In regard to Roger's statement (above) regarding the use of the wu wei self-observation process (the BCI) "When I go 'down' into my belly, everything is black at first", Remo then makes another statement (to which Roger attests in his earlier discussion);
"Yes, and then we think there is nothing. But out of 'nothing' comes everything".

The inner athanor, the 'belly' of a human being, is connected with the outer athanor, so-called 'outer space', to which we have always referred, since the early days of Star Trek, as 'the final frontier'. The inner and the outer athanors are connected, in fact, they are one and the same, of course. There is really no inner and no outer, and exactly with the loss of this concept comes the knowledge that causality is not what it used to be! That game is really over now, and no one really wants to know about it, which is why the government of the USA still insists on the Space Race!We can use the concept of causality all we want, but it cannot take us to 'the final frontier', which is, in actuality, our inner selves - our 'inner space', at once a point in space/time and also, as Remo says, the 'always/everywhere'.

We like to avoid the motif of endlessness precisely because we think that it means 'nothingness'. Interesting. Because you cannot truly have 'something' UNTIL YOU HAVE 'no-thing' - ! - It sounds absurd, but it is just the opposite of absurd. As Remo says above: " out of 'nothing' comes everything". You have to give it all up, to get to the All, apparently... Anyone who starts from this premise will be supporting the incarnation process of the World Soul, of this there is no longer any doubt.


:?:
I wonder also, if we might make it easier for those who are unsure of what 'belly' refers to here on the Unus Mundus when we speak of 'BCI' or Body Centered Imagination. To repeat, Remo says that the area we are calling the 'belly' here has for him included several different bodily areas over the years, from the heart chakra on downwards. I guess we are saying that the 'belly' region could constitute the whole inner self from the heart chakra region down to the svadisthana region of the sacral plexus (the procreative and sex organs) and perhaps even sofar as the base chakra region of the muladhara, the tailbone (some say this chakra even includes the base of the feet)...
Mainly it is obvious that what we are suggesting here too in referencing this sort of inner observation work -( the wu wei attitude of non-action and inner meditation) - is: LOSE YOUR HEAD! As Remo has stated, there is really no set way to engage in this 'activity' ( 'to do the non-ado' ), and that is the way it should stay. To each person their own method of deep observation. It is really the action of living ones' life, this BCI attitude, not simply an activity to do, like sports, a few times a week, and then to walk away from it on those days off. If one is in this mode of 'being' then one is in actuality LIVING this mode of 'being', and that, in turn, becomes ones' brave new reality and really does change everything - - - .


Kristin

_________________
"The tomb is not a blind alley; it is a thoroughfare. It closes on the twilight. It opens on the dawn." ******* (Victor Hugo)


Thu May 04, 2006 7:52 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: inner space="outer space"
kristin wrote:
The inner athanor, the 'belly' of a human being, is connected with the outer athanor, so-called 'outer space', to which we have always referred, since the early days of Star Trek, as 'the final frontier'. The inner and the outer athanors are connected, in fact, they are one and the same, of course.


Approximately 20 years ago I worked with people diagnosed as schizophrenic. They experienced space like this. The trouble is the identification. If the ego identifies with this psychophysical nonlocal space, they are really sick. They begin to think that the can fly, and so on. If they do however not identify and still feel that there is a difference between the ego and this "other space", they are able to enter it. It is the "space" of the Beyond, In fact I experienced that these people are in a connection with deceased relatives, mostly the ones they loved very much.

Quote:
There is really no inner and no outer, and exactly with the loss of this concept comes the knowledge that causality is not what it used to be! That game is really over now, and no one really wants to know about it, which is why the government of the USA still insists on the Space Race! We can use the concept of causality all we want, but it cannot take us to 'the final frontier', which is, in actuality, our inner selves - our 'inner space', at once a point in space/time and also, as Remo says, the 'always/everywhere'.


The acceptance of the reality of this "spaceless space" is the really big difficulty. Though we know that quantum physics is based on what it calls nonlocality, ie a world in which the causality defined in Einstein's spacetime is not valid, people go on as if this world would not exist. Thus, they need "extraterrestrials", ie people who come from a distant world. However, distance is not defined in a nonlocal world, the point is the same as the whole universe. This is the reason why I always write "ETs" and not ETs.

The "spaceless space" cannot be realized with the help of the Logos ego. On the other hand we know that the criteria of space and time are dependent of the Logos ego. If we try to abandon the latter, we abandon also metric time and space. The time measure tends to infinity, as does the space measure. Then we live in a spacetime which is eternal, and in which the point and the infinite space are the same (since the space measure is infinite).

Today, all this is so easy to describe (but I needed more than 30 years for these conclusions), but the whole description does not replace the experience of the "always/everywhere". The Logos gives us a "Vorstellung", and idea of all this, but only the Eros gives us the experience.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu May 04, 2006 8:35 am
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 93 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.