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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 A Letter to my father 
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:35 pm
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Post A Letter to my father
Hello to all,

I just thought I would share this experience. One year ago on January 15, some police came knocking on my door. I had just moved to this new place and by the look on the policemen's face I knew something had happened. It turned out that the news was from my father. He had died and they had found a recent letter from me to him and that is how they had found me. That night I was wondering if he had had the time to actually read the letter and I wondered what exactly I had written in it. I knew that I had finally answered a question he had asked me a while ago. In passing I had made a comment about the "inner child," and he had asked me what that meant.

On January 4 of this this year, just before falling asleep, and as clear as day, I saw my father in a vision. He was so clear and I saw how much we did look alike especially the eyes, they were so noticeable. There were no words exchanged between us but I felt such warmth and love. The next day, January 5, I remembered this was my father's official date of death reported on the death certificate. (They had found him only ten days later.) I thought, "that is probably why I saw him yesterday."

In the days leading up to this morning I still kept wondering about the experience of seeing my father and the circumstances of his death and the aniversary of his death, etc... Then this morning I decided to look again at the letter I had sent him.

Here is part of that letter:
Quote:
I never did reply to your question a while back about the Inner Child. I may have confused Inner Child with Divine Child, either way I was talking about the archetype (motif) of the child within us. Carl Jung explored the mind/psyche and concluded that within our unconscious we could find our own personal share of unconscious material (i.e. Memories,) but that we also had access to a deeper layer, the collective unconscious. The collective unconscious is a storehouse of all of humanity where symbols and archetypes are found and is demonstrated in world myth, legend and even religious systems. So back to the Child archetype, on a personal unconscious level it is repressed or forgotten memories from our childhoods, but on a collective level it is that “being innocent, like a child,” but not childish. (I am having a bit of difficulty expressing this, so if you have any questions please let me know.) Basically it is like when in the Bible it is said that we must be like children to enter the kingdom. Anyways, the idea is that the Inner/Divine Child is the key to individuation, to becoming whole. (I hope I didn’t mess this all up.)


I was struck by the fact that the letter was dated January 4th! It was like going back in time and realizing that my father must have been standing behind me while I was typing his letter.


Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:58 am
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Hi Clarice

Thank you for your interesting post.

Did you notice that Jan 4 is the birthday of Marie-Louise von Franz?

I am convinced that it was your father in the Beyond, who visited you. Thus, I think your vision does not deal with a "complex," but with the your real father. Perhaps you know that Marie-Louise von Franz deals in On Dreams and Death with this differentiation between a complex and the real deceased.

I would take this synchronicity as a hint that you have the task to develop further your relationship with the deceased, especially with your father. It is funny that I am writing about all this exactly now. I show that during the first years of the 20th century up until his breakdown in 1913 this archetype was deeply constellated in Carl Jung. It is the archetype of Hermetic alchemy, and the most important demand of it for the consciousness is the "become like children" (not remain a child!). Since during this time Carl Jung defined himself yet as a scientist (he never really overcame this state), he was not able to live the Hermetic archetype (the unio corporalis, as I describe it in Chapter 4 of my Holy Wedding).

As much as I can see the most important aspect of the "child" -- and also of the archetype of the fool -- is giving up thinking and "let it flow." As much as I know you can do this very well. For us men and also for intellectually (over) trained woman it seems to be much more difficult.

It seems that the conscious relationship with the deceased is very important for the collective fate of our planet. I do not yet exactly see how, but it seems that in such a relationship one is able to enter what Carl Jung anticipated already in 1928 (but did not yet really understand) as the point A situation:

Quote:
“So far as I can grasp the nature of the collective unconscious, it seems to me like an omnipresent continuum, an unextended Everywhere. That is to say, when something happens here at point A which touches upon or affects the collective unconscious, it has happened everywhere.“ [Letters, vol. 1, p. 58]


[I would replace the term "collective unconscious" by the term unus mundus, the latter also containing the subtle body/world soul aspect of the Beyond. The collective unconscios is originally defined as a mere spirit realm, and Jung was never conscious about the fact that there is a difference between the c.u. (what I call the collective spirit-psyche) and the unus mundus, which is more general and also contains the subtle body/world soul, the matter-psyche.]

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:04 am
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Post PS
And thank you that you post this in the UNUS MUNDUS forum. I think more and more that it is important that as many people as possible should deal with the relationship with the deceased.

As I showed in http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... h5p3_e.htm in his relationship with his cousin Helly Carl Jung did this already during his high school time, then however, under the influence of his association experiment and of Freud he redefined the ghosts as complexes. Later he was thrown into what he called the collective unconscious, and as I wrote above never found really back to the Beyond, the unus mundus, to the realm which is more general than the c.u.

It seems that now the time is ripe that we accept this more general realm and that we have to relate to it in a different way than with the method of Active Imagination. A.I. gives us access to the c.u., to what I call the collective spirit-psyche. It seems however that Body-Centered Imagination (which can be done in many different ways) relates us with the Beyond or unus mundus, the matter-psyche/spirit-psyche realm.

As you perhaps also know, in this way of dealing with the Beyond one is much more passive, and one tries first (if one is too much in the head) to come down into the belly. There, I guess in what Tantrists call the
svadhisthana, the second chacra, the relationship with the Beyond takes place.

With your contribution you give us a nice example of how this works (in your case).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:08 am
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Post My dream of the visit of my God-father in the Beyond
Many, many years ago (at June 22nd, 1986) I dreamed the following dream:
Dream of the visit of my deceased god-father in his subtle body:

I rent a new flat.

Quote:
Association:
Exactly in this moment I'm dealing with the Deutsches Requiem (German Requiem) of Johannes Brahms. The words "Wie lieblich sind deine Wohnungen, Herr Zebaoth" (How lovely are your flats, oh God) do not go out of my mind. I'm forced to think at them, and these thoughts are accompanied by an intense positive feeling tone.

Later association:
Later I realized with the help of own and dreams of my patients that "flat," "house" means mostly one's own body.


In opening the door with a passe partout (a key that opens all locks) I hear someone calling my name. I turn around and realize that it is my god-father deceased 1 1/2 years ago.

Quote:
His name was Felix; "Felix is latin for 'Happiness'" (Kristin). :D ; see the bliss below !


I look into his face and realize that it is completely beatific and shows the expression of total bliss. Then I take a look at his body. It is very different from the body of a living human, slightly blurred, oscillating and transparent.

Quote:
During noting this dream into my diary I have the spontaneous association that like this the subtle body could be presented to the living humans.

Later I realize that the similarity with the description of UFOs is striking.


Quote:
Remark:
During and after the dream I have the feeling that this dream is a really numinous experience. I cannot almost describe it with the help of words. I guess that mystics have such intense feelings and corporeal sensations in the ecstasy. Further something in me knows instinctively that this bliss belongs to the resurrection after death.


My God-father does not exactly know what he could tell me. I, too, am somehow inhibited, since I read somewhere that one should not approach the deceased to close.

******

As I wake up I feel an intense warmth in my back, at the place of the heart. I guess that the anahata chakra had opened.

This dream was so remarkable that still today I am intensely reminded of it. It showed me for the first time the reality of the subtle body in the Beyond.

As I post this dream I realize something new:

It seems that the supposed reincarnation of the deceased happens like this: They do not (or not only?) come back into the body of newborn children, as esoterics believes, but as a subtle body into the “subtle body part” of the body of adult people. This subtle body part seems to be located somewhere between the 1st and the 4th chakra.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:14 pm
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Post The Lance of Longinus and the Grail's Lance
I just see that with the flat in the above dream I associated the flat of a woman whose name is Gertrud. Ger-trud is Germanic and means the one who carries the spear. Synchronistically to all this I posted exactly one part of my ms. The Holy Wedding, in which I describe and interpret the lance of Longinus = Holy Lance of the Grail legend; see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ginus#3620 .

Using the (magic) lance of Longinus/Holy Lance means to aim (= lance) at the phenomena in our body, especially in the belly. It is what I call today Body-Centered Imagination.

Thus, already more than 20 years ago the dream tried to show me that it is my challenge to develop such a method in which one "aims" in the state of the Wu Wei -- aim means here observe passively -- at the body, especially to the belly.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:50 pm
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Post The Devil and Healing
Dream of Oct 20th, 1987:

I am at the place of my God-father Felix.

Quote:
Association:
The dream of June 22nd, 1986, in which my God-father Felix appeared in his subtle body (see above)


There a painter lives.

I look at his images. One of them attracts my attention very intensely, and I feel a deep impression of it. It is the Teufelsbrücke (the devil's bridge) at the Gotthard pass (San Gottardo).

Quote:
Association:
When the San Gottardo opened at the end of the 13th century, the traffic increased incredibly. This is why the three cantons there, Uri, Schwyz and Unterwalden founded the basis of Switzerland. They did it to defend themselves against the kings of Habsburg who reigned over this part of Europe and charged the toll. In some victorous battles the Swiss beated the Habsburgs and were now able to charge the toll themselves.

The San Gottardo is the HEART of Switzerland. I spent many nights on it, since I was so fascinated of the idea of a pass, especially this one. It leads from the north of Europe to the South. I interpret this as the pass from thinking to feeling, ie exactly what I postulate today as the necessary condition for doing BCI.


Quote:
Remark:
The bridge is called Teufelsbrücke since it was a technological masterpiece, and thus the people there thought it was the devil, who had constructed it. This devil is painted at the rock besides the bridge.

Image

Today I realize that the "devil" is a symbol of acausality, the "effect" without "cause," since one cannot describe it mathematically and like this cannot control it. The same is true for BCI: One cannot control what happens in it, since one lets oneself consciously fall into the state of the Wu Wei, the active passiveness, the Eros ego, in which one only observes what happens in the BCI. Such a behaviour is the big difference to A.I., since in the latter one is active and talks to the figures of the unconscious. Because of the passiveness and the state of not-talking and not-thinking in BCI one gives back the whole process to the world soul in the unus mundus, and only like this she can present us what I call the singular acausal quantum leaps.

[In BCI one observes in one's inside; in the case of UFO encounter one is forced to observe these strange phenomena in the outside; in abduction phenomena inner and outer world even melt, and one observes the unus mundus. Thus, we can in a way say that BCI is a conscious observation of the "inner UFOs."]


Suddenly I see that another motif is painted over the devil. It is the phenix who reincarnates out of his ash.

Image

Quote:
Association:
In a paper that I wrote shortly before this dream I interpret the phenix as the subtle body created out of the physical body.


The dream leaved the very distinct feeling that in my life something very decisive had changed in a positive manner. In July 1988 I began to apply the BCI for the first time to a sick woman. She suffered from Multiple Sclerosis (progredient form; the most hopeless form). After three years she was healed. Today she is completely healthy -- I guess the devil (see above) helped me to heal this woman :evil:

This dream showed me for the first time that the subtle body and healing could be connected. This is why I don't believe in a subtle body theory (as most esoterics do), but I experienced it and still do so. Further it showed me that BCI has in some way to do with a resurrection. The resurrection I translate today with the observation of the creation of the subtle body. The latter is the individual aspect of healing. It seems however (since the subtle body is nonlocally connected with the world soul) that also the world soul (deeply hurt and raped by the invention of the nuclear bomb and the nuclear plants) and like this perhaps our beautiful mother earth could be healed.

Remo

PS: The funny (or not so funny?) thing is that all these "therapy witches" projected the devil into me since I am limping :twisted:

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:57 pm
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Sorry that I explode like this. But Clarice's vision has touched the deepest layers in me ...

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:12 pm
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Post The devil and the anti-atomic bomb
I begin now on an even deeper level to understand what Wolfgang Pauli wrote:

Quote:
“[The dark principle is] the one that withdraws an intellectual order of laws. It is the evil in ethics (the problem of the integration of evil into the godhead, etc.), the acausal in natural philosophy.“ Pauli, 1999, letter [1646] of Oct 8, 1953, p. 283[Translation mine]


Remember all the dreams of the UM members of the darkness as the one we have to deal with, not to convert it to the bright (Christianity; psychoanalysis), but to see that the "black sun," the black hole in the belly (which corresponds to the black hole in the middle of our milky way;svadhisthana?) is the real creation prînciple.

I understood like this that what I call the singular acausal quantum leap, observable in our belly or also in the UFO phenomenon, is in fact the world soul, the feminine creation and incarnation principle. Since this principle is acausal, as is every singular quantum leap (as for example the natural radioactive decay of one single atom), one cannot control it with the help of the application of (causal or statistically causal) natural laws on it. Everything that is not controllable by the "bright sun" of the masculine consciousness (thinking/sensation) is however defined as evil.

Image
[This is a modern painting of Lucifer]

Evil is on the contrary the idea of the physicists to control such acausal events by defining a statistical causality for the mass of the radioactive atoms -- Wolfgang Pauli's black mass (as I wrote in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... +mass#3051 ).

Thus, BCI and such ways of imagination are perhaps the anti-atomic bomb ...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:27 pm
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Remo and all,

I was not aware that January 4 was Marie Louise von Franz's birthday! I have her book "On Dreams and Death," and I read it a few years before meeting you and Roger. Just now I decided to have a look and I noticed that I have only one page that is bookmarked and the following passage is underlined:

Quote:
The two are usually a spiritual, free (not quite incarnated) soul and one more attached to the physical body. From the point of view of depth psychology, however, both kinds of soul are aspects of onepsychic totality, the Self. It seems therefore as if the Self, the divine center in man, possesses two aspects, one nonincarnated, purely spiritual, timeless-eternal; the other demiurgical, manifesting itself in physical matter.


This is quite the synchronicity! Just recently I noticed how the forum was becoming more active and I really wanted to participate but wasn't sure what to post. In the days leading to this I had come across some beautiful lines from the Rig Veda and I was going to post this following quote:

Quote:
Two birds, beautiful of wing, friends and comrades, cling to a common tree, and one eats the sweet fruit, while the other regards him and eats not.


After reading those lines I thought about the subtle body and still leafing through the book I found this:

Quote:
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead....It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Cor. 15:35-44.)


Now here is the synchronicity: When I designed the rememberence cards for my father I found and used that very quote.

Clarice


Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:09 pm
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Remo,

I was looking over your last reply and a few things struck me. I have begun re-experiencing that which I call my "experiences of darkness," starting December 26. I was actually relieved at experiencing these again. When I followed the link I saw you mentioned the name Trinity,

Quote:
Like this the physicists thought that they retrieved the power over matter (over the archetypal feminine principle). In fact, like this they were able to construct the atomic bomb -- with the name Trinity -- against Hitler.


Yesterday afternoon my husband and I were just casually discussing and for whatever reason he used
3-2=1 as an example. This simple statement triggered a response in me and him when I explained it. I began with if 3-2=1 which 1 is left. This simple statement opened up a channel within me and at one point the idea came to me, "what if we were to apply it to the Trinity?"

Clarice


Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:25 pm
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I forgot something else. You mention your Godfather's name being Felix, just last night my daughter-in-law came by and I asked if she had decided on names for the upcoming baby. She picked, "Felix," for a boy.


Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:29 pm
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Clarice wrote:
I forgot something else. You mention your Godfather's name being Felix, just last night my daughter-in-law came by and I asked if she had decided on names for the upcoming baby. She picked, "Felix," for a boy.


Clarice

Tears come ... !

Something very incredibly happens in the world -- at least in our tiny microcosm of the UNUS MUNDUS.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:43 pm
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Remo Roth wrote:

Tears come ... !

Something very incredibly happens in the world -- at least in our tiny microcosm of the UNUS MUNDUS.

Remo


You both should see my smile now!

Love

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:04 am
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Clarice wrote:
Yesterday afternoon my husband and I were just casually discussing and for whatever reason he used 3-2=1 as an example. This simple statement triggered a response in me and him when I explained it. I began with if 3-2=1 which 1 is left. This simple statement opened up a channel within me and at one point the idea came to me, "what if we were to apply it to the Trinity?"


Clarice

I guess what opened the channel was the idea of unity. When one experiences such visions of the deceased one is in a state of wholeness and unity. It is on the one hand the unification with the whole world, on the other with the Beyond. It is exactly what Carl Jung expressed like this:

Quote:
At times I feel as if I am spread out over the landscape and inside things, and am myself living in every tree, in the splashing of the waves, in the clouds and the animals that come and go, in the procession of the seasons" (MDR, p. 252).


Carl Jung was however not yet able to integrate this experience into his theory, since he equated the anima (what I call the feminine spirit-psyche) with the anima mundi, the world soul, the tripartite goddess of the celts (I call this principle the matter-psyche, a necessary second part of the energy term, if one interprets the Axiom of Maria Prophetissa in a modern way).

See also http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... 52.htm#521 , especially section 5.2.1.6 Carl Jung’s antagonistic definitions of the term “psyche”

Image

The tripartite goddes is the necessary counterpart of equal worth as the masculine tripartite god (the Trinity). Only like this, and not by adding a one-dimensional being (Jung's quaternity), one can describe the real background of our world, the unus mundus, and the processes happening in it.

See also http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/jungneo ... p4.htm#338

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:11 am
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Post The dream that led me to BCI and to the Eros Self (Valentine
Marie-Louise von Franz told me once that Carl Jung was asked if there could come something else behind the Self. He answered that this is possible. However, it is meaningless to talk about it, since people do even not understand what he means with the Self.

I was never content with this answer, since in a lecture about alchemy MLvF told us the following:
In the age-old text of Komarios after the rubedo (the redding) comes a further step which is called "The treatment with the vessel with breasts." It is an alchemical vessel and similar to the one one calls the pelican. It looks like this (my original notes of Feb 13, 1975):

Image

Above is the "vessel with breasts," and on the right of this vessel the remark (originally of MLvF): "Archetypus hinter dem Selbst = der Achte (Archetype behind the Self = the 8th).

Then a description of the process follows (originally of MLvF). We see that between the four phases of alchemy, nigredo, albedo, citrinitas and rubedo, there are inserted four further steps: the mumification, the liquefying of the gold, the dichotomy and the treatment with the help of the vessel with breasts.

Thus I knew at least symbolically that behind the Self of Carl Jung must come something further.

Then I went to bed and dreamed the following


Archetypal dream on Valentine's Day (14.2.1975)

I am in a villa, and around it there is a big and very beautiful park with big trees. It is the house where Carl Jung and Marie-Louise von Franz live together. There are also other people there, and we sit at a very long rectangular table.

Carl Jung begins to speak and says: “I’d like now to speak about the one that comes behind the Self … “ He explains then what it is, but I forgot what it was.

However, after this reunion I walk into a “Nebenraum” (adjoining room), a hall. Its entry is from outside (like the garages). Here at the walls there are wooden sculptures, which I palm. (Association of today: As a sculpturer I always palm sculptures. Only like this I can really feel their soul – the soul of matter, the matter-psyche.).

I did not at all understand this dream then. I wrote under it: “I’m struggling with the anima integration, and the unconscious comes with such a dream … “I did not yet know that it was a dream about the anima mundi, and that the latter is something completely else than Carl Jung’s anima.

This was the dream which led me to the Body-Centered Imagination and to the Eros Self behind Carl Jung’s (Logos) Self. The dream means that behind Carl Jung’s Logos Self there is a further realm, which has however to do with the vegetative (sympathetic/parasympathetic) nervous system (of which the the wooden sculptures are a symbol). Carl Jung's and Marie-Louise von Franz' house is a symbol of the corporeal (house = body) continuation of their work. The hall is the place where these wooden sculptures, ie the “inner aspect of matter and of the body," the subtle body/world soul aspect belong to. Thus the hall is a symbol of the unus mundus.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:13 am
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Post The "Nebenraum"
The adjoining room (der Nebenraum) became a very important symbol in my dreams, especially in the years 1988, when I applied for the first time BCI with sick people. I began to understand that the adjacent room is a symbol of the "inner aspect" of space and of the body, which we can only observe with the help of the Eros ego. Like this I began to realize the Eros Self.

I am more and more convinced today that the Eros Self or the unus mundus, the place of the world soul, is a "spaceless space" and a "timeless time" and thus equal to or containing the Beyond. This is why it is possible to have a relationship with the deceased in the Beyond, but only when we approach this "always/everywhere."

I guess I already mentioned somewhere that I learned about this relationship the first time with a woman, who was diagnosed as schizophrenic. Yes, see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... renic#3083 .

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:38 am
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Post The "contents" of the Beyond and reincarnation
Remo Roth wrote:
I am more and more convinced today that the Eros Self or the unus mundus, the place of the world soul, is a "spaceless space" and a "timeless time" and thus equal to or containing the Beyond. This is why it is possible to have a relationship with the deceased in the Beyond, but only when we approach this "always/everywhere."


Some further thoughts:

The expressions "spaceless space" and "timeless time" are however related to our way to see space and time. Thus I postulate a qualitatively different space and time in the Beyond. The question is how it would look like.

Here the subtle body/world soul concept enters the scene. This "always/everwhere" (= time is eternal and a point in space is the same as the whole universe) seems also to contain a different form of matter/energy. I call it the matter-psyche. I know visions of people which seem to show that with the production of artificial radioactivity we "fill" the unus mundus in a wrong way. This is why the "inhabitants" protest and tell us that we destroy the Beyond (and with this also the universe) or increase the "negative karma" there and in our world. However, if we do BCI it seems that we do the contrary: We decrease the negative karma, and the people in the Beyond are very thankful for this. It even seems that like this we help them to reincarnate. Clarice's vision confirms this view. As I wrote they seem to reincarnate in the corporeal visions of some people.

Of course all this is yet speculation, but without some new axioms we will never understand all these strange phenomena like deeply corporeally sensated visions, UFOs/"ETs" and crop circles -- and healing.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:25 pm
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Post Some further thoughts:
We can now ask ourselves what really is observable of the subtle body aspect of matter or of the body. If we postulate the twin process, we see that in this world we do not really observe the matter-psyche, but its transformation into spirit-psyche with increased negentropy. The latter can show in two different ways: As outer spirit-psyche with increased negentropy, ie as physical energy/matter of higher order (healing aspect on the corporeal side), and as inner spirit-psyche with increased negentropy (objective psyche = Logos Self with increased negentropy). The former would help the healing of the body, the latter the "healing" of the "spirit," or of the individual mind. As a qualitatively higher inner spirit-psyche it could show as a higher ethics of mankind. If so, the world would perhaps become a better place.

Thus, what I defined as the observation of the creation of the subtle body would in fact be an observation of the increase of its quality, a higher negentropy. I can only interpret a “higher negentropy” of physical matter/energy as miracles that could happen – healing that would look miraculous for the materialistic physicians. In fact I know such healings in my patients.

On the other hand one could imagine that by such processes the negentropy of the world soul or of the Beyond is increased. This could be the destruction of negative karma created by the most horrible political leaders of the world in the moment when they die. This process shows perhaps in the visions of a man I know: In them many of these horrible deceased come back to him and thank him for letting them enter into his altered consciousness when he does BCI. This would mean that it is in fact the subtle body aspect which is “filled” with their evil deeds. They had decreased the negentropy of the world soul, and this man has the duty to increase the negentropy of the world soul.

I myself dreamed some years ago a dream, in which my hands were able to destroy the “totem of evil.” I still remember the noise which belonged to this destruction: It reminded me of an experience I had once in Vienna. In summer there are many insects, and since people like to sit in the outside, they invented a technology to destroy them. They are attracted by a bright light. Behind this light there are high charged electrical wires. They destroy the insects with a very typical noise. It was this noise I heard in this dream.

Of course this dream could have meant that my hands (and the hands of other healers) can destroy the aspect of the “negative karma” in my patients, which led to the disease, and like this “positive karma” (increased negentropy of the subtle body) is created. But perhaps this is also true for the healing of the world and of the negative karma in the Beyond.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:42 pm
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Post 
When you read the above remember what Niels Bohr said to Wolfgang Pauli:

Quote:
Your (physical) theory (of the world formula) is not crazy enough


See http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... +bohr#1692

I just see that I quoted Niels Bohr's statement in the context of the "New House Dreams" of Pauli and Jung

And remember the "New House" with the adjacent room in the dream above, in which Carl Jung and Marie-Louise von Franz live ...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:53 pm
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Post Re: Some further thoughts:
Eduard


Last edited by Eduard Klarer on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:41 pm
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Post 
Eduard

What a great picture you received of the unus mundus. It reminded me of the following I posted in the UM forum:

I, as Oedipus, with Antigone on my back proceed to approach a suspension bridge (with a bottom of planks), which leads over a river onto the other side. [Aug 28, 2006: Obviously into the Beyond]

It looks perhaps like this Canadian suspension bridge:

Image

Or perhaps like this more primitive one:


Image

Quote:
Association:
When I dealt again with this BCI of 1986 on Jan 12, 2000 I had a spontaneous association of a dream of January 16, 1999:

Dream voice of the simultaneousity of inside and outside:
A voice in the dream tells me:
Quote:
There are events which happen simultaneously in the inside and in the outside.

This is not a mere intellectual insight, but an "Erfüllung," in English perhaps a fulfillment. This fulfillment is however intensely corporeal, it fills my body, but also my surrounding. It is almost impossible to describe this feeling/sensation. The best approximation is Carl Jung's statement in MDR:
Quote:
"At times I feel as if I am spread out over the landscape and inside things, and am myself living in every tree, in the splashing of the waves, in the clouds and the animals that come and go, in the procession of the seasons ... here is space for the spaceless kingdom of the world's and the psyche's hinterland." MDR, p. 252

Yet in the dream or in a semi-somnolent state I try then to amplify this "Erfüllung" (fulfillment). I try it first with the reminder of Carl Jung's Ravenna experience (see MDR pp. 315), but it doesn't work. Instead something very autonomous in me "remembers" another image:

Quote:
I am at the bank of a river. There I see the ferryman. This ferryman is "inside/outside". I cannot explain this fact in a different way. Since the ferryman is "inside/outside," he can vanish into thin air and rematerialize.

This ferryman is angry with the humans, since they are not able to believe and understand that this inside/outside really exists.


Yet in this semi-somnolent state but already a little more awake, I immediately am more than certain that the UFO phenomenon is an manifestation of this state. Since we cannot realize this simultaneous inside/outside phenomenon consciously, it happens now unconsciously as the UFO and "ET" experience.

I feel a real bliss because of all these deep insights.


I had these associations more or less 13 ½ years after the original BCI of 1986. They show how vivid the original BCI still was in my memory.

Today I know that this “inside/outside” is the unus mundus (to which the Beyond seems to belong). The ferryman seems to be a masculine aspect of the world soul, who would like to convince me that events like Carl Jung’s point A phenomenon are possible:

Quote:
“So far as I can grasp the nature of the collective unconscious [unus mundus; RFR], it seems to me like an omnipresent continuum, an unextended Everywhere. That is to say, when something happens here at point A which touches upon or affects the collective unconscious [unus mundus; RFR], it has happened everywhere.“ [Letters, vol. 1, p. 58]


The new aspect here is that another property of the unus mundus is explained. It is on the one hand "inside/outside," does therefore not obey our idea of a physical as well as of a depth psychological space (outer and inner space), but tells us that this is the same. The subject/object border (?; Subjekt-Objekt-Schranke in German) seems to be abolished.

Further, entering this space means that matter (and energy) disappears, and comes back anew. Exactly how the UFOs and the "ETs" behave. Today I see that with this above phrase what I call today the twin process of Hermetic alchemy was described. In it one seems to enter a spaceless space (and a timeless time, ie eternity). By entering it, it seems that what happens in the observing or experiencing human, has happened everywhere.

This is however nothing else than the so-called tikkun of Isaak Luria (see end of http://www.psychovision.ch/ufnw/egeln_chap13_roth.htm )

The twin process seems to constist in a first transformation of what I call spirit-psyche (outer spirit-psyche = physical energy; inner spirit-psyche = objective psychic energy) into matter-psyche, the yin aspect of the universe neither observable with physical nor with depth psychological tools. In this state the energy gets increased negentropy, ie higher order, and if a human observes this process the second process happens, the re-incarnation of this matter-psyche as spirit-psyche with increased negentropy. The latter seems, as I explained in a post above, to show on the one hand as some sort of an increased negentropy of physical energy, ie new physical laws of nature and perhaps completely new physical matter, on the other hand as some sort of an increased negentropy of objective psychic energy, ie new psychic laws of a new God-image.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:17 pm
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Post 
Remo,

Have you seen this quatrain by Nostradamus? It seems to relate to the subtle body and perhaps even BCI.

Quote:
IV 25
Corps sublimes sans fin à l'œil visibles,
Obnubiler viendra par ses raisons,
Corps, front comprins, sens, chef & inuisibles,
Diminuant les sacrees oraisons.


Here is my attempted translation:

Quote:
Subtle bodies without end to the visible eye,
Clouded (or fear of death) will come by reason
Bodies, forehead included, senses, chief and invisible
Diminishing the sacred orations (prayer, sermon, mantra...)


I came across this just this morning and it reminded me of the subtle body.

Clarice


Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:31 pm
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Post 
Clarice wrote:
Remo,

Have you seen this quatrain by Nostradamus? It seems to relate to the subtle body and perhaps even BCI.

Quote:
IV 25
Corps sublimes sans fin à l'œil visibles,
Obnubiler viendra par ses raisons,
Corps, front comprins, sens, chef & inuisibles,
Diminuant les sacrees oraisons.


Here is my attempted translation:

Quote:
Subtle bodies without end to the visible eye,
Clouded (or fear of death) will come by reason
Bodies, forehead included, senses, chief and invisible
Diminishing the sacred orations (prayer, sermon, mantra...)


I came across this just this morning and it reminded me of the subtle body.

Clarice


No, Clarice, I don't know it. Belongs it to the prophecies? If yes, prophecy of which time?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:46 pm
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Post 
Remo,

Yes it is part of the Prophesies, 4th Century quatrain number 25.

The quatrains before and after are also quite interesting but more difficult to translate.

The 4th Century is available here:

http://www.maar.us/forth_century_nostra ... rains.html

And a link to all the centuries here:

http://www.maar.us/nostradamus_quatrains_main.html

Clarice


Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:27 pm
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Post Complex and Beyond
Clarice - Remo's important point at the beginning that your dream is not a complex but a relationship with the actual Beyond and a visit by your actual father. Like William Blake and Dante it is what makes your dreams the thing of literature. If some day the European friends visit the highest regions of Canada where you live beneath Aurora Borealis, they must visit the town next to yours, Hearst, marked by the Phoenix - my family and I took the snow train through the forest there nine winters ago. In reading James Lovelock's recent book which claims only the highest realms near the artic circle will survive global warming, I thought of Hearst and you at the center of a new world.


Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:20 pm
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Post 
Bernie and all,

It would be lovely if we could all meet one day, and here in the north, how wonderful that would be. It would have to be when the Aurora Borealis are at their finest, Spring or Fall. And not only could we go to Hearst but we'd have to go to Moonbeam, home of the UFO.

Image

Clarice


Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:11 pm
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Post 
Clarice wrote:
Bernie and all,

It would be lovely if we could all meet one day
Clarice


This possibility is something that is building into me. As the inner outer odd-job man here, I guess that possibly I will have to take of that part. If...

Roger

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Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


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Post one day
Clarice, all;

It seems right -- Clarice, you are at the 'center' of all of our locations! The fact that you are in the north is what gives the idea such clarity. It would be just great - a convention of misfits ! (I'm thinking suddenly of the charming older animated Christmas movie "Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer", where 'north' is the location where all the 'misfits' assemble/live together: lost toys, elves, the Abominable Snowman (the gentle giant!) and the wild creatures all together...

How beautiful it would be...

Best,
Kristin

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Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:52 pm
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Post 
That would be very cool, indeed.

Plus, I badly want to see the northern lights.

I actually had the thought one time that I should go to the north pole so I would be surrounded by the magnetic drapes on all sides. But can they even be seen from that latitude?

Michael

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Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:13 pm
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Post 
Kristin and All,

A "Convention of Misfits," I love it! Interesting that you would think about Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, a few years ago a friend told me that in one of the Rudolph movies there is a reindeer named Clarice. She said that the first time she met me she immediately thought about Rudolph. The North Pole is a very vivid image here. I had big dreams about all of this. It would be a wonderful location to all meet.

Clarice


Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:26 pm
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Post Clarice the 'female deer'
Dear-!- Clarice

I can't believe it -- that's true, that must be why the mistfit idea came up! In the animated movie about the story of Rudolph the character 'Clarice' is a little doe who is Rudolphs' childhood sweetheart (later to be his mate)! She never gives up on him, despite the fact that he is 'different' and all his other peers (initially) reject him...sounds about right,eh (the UM 'misfit' phenomenon!)?? :) What's really strange is that the name "Clarice' came up the other day in our family, and my sister reminded us that she was the little doe in the "Rudolph" kids' Christmas story from t.v. I immediately thought of you!

B.T.W., there is a song from this film sung by Rudolph and a particular Elf who is unhappy making toys for a living (he would like to become a dentist..). This is the basic 'misfit' song:

"We're a couple of misfits, why don't we fit in?"

Sometime after singing this song they go off on an adventure, a sort of adolescent coming of age journey through another world, a trackless land of bleak ice and snow, where they meet the Abomidable Snowman. Later they also rescue the misfit toys and Santa Claus delivers them across the world on Christmas Eve -- the love that all the misfits (both toys and creators) have to offer is thus finally fulfilled, now 'gifted' to the children of the world (that's the idea anyway)(I gues we can find a metaphor for the 'anti-bomb generators', the 'UM misfits', in this story pretty easily!).

[N.B.: interestingly, at one point in the story the word 'misfit' is also rhymed with the word 'nitwit' in the song - interesting. I guess the misfits are not quite alright in their heads! Hurray! Lets put our non-existent heads together and see if we can all meet one day for a sort of Alice in Wonderland convention event - it could happen...!]

Thanks Clarice for suggesting a magic possibility!
Kristin

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Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:04 am
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Post 
Michael wrote:
That would be very cool, indeed.

Plus, I badly want to see the northern lights.

I actually had the thought one time that I should go to the north pole so I would be surrounded by the magnetic drapes on all sides. But can they even be seen from that latitude?

Michael


The Northern Lights are such a normal occurence here that we hardly pay attention to them anymore. I remember when I was younger and played outside, there were so many occasions where not only did we dance with the lights but we could hear them whistle too. They are magnificent to watch. We must plan something. It would be wonderful. (by the wya this is our airport's latitude: 49°25'N.)

Clarice


Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:07 am
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Post Dream of North Star
13 years ago when I was still in North Carolina - Feb. '97 - I remember because Hale-Bopp comet hung over our farm for a month & I dreamed a yellow monk in it - I dreamed of walking briskly through an ice mountain to the North Star, due north. A few years later my wife got a situation in Ann Arbor, Michigan and for vacation, we took the snow train to Hearst. It was like a magical ride because the conductor dressed as train conductors of old. About 20 hours from Sault Ste. Marie on the Canadian border through snow covered forest and frozen waterfalls - Canadian wilderness, no towns or roads. When we arrived at Hearst it was like arriving at the center of the dream I'd had. As when Black Elk said, "This is the center of the world;" a little French-speaking enclave way high in English-speaking Ontario. I'd been writing these essays about how certain live spots along the Mississippi form chakras in a division line between the Eastern World and the Western World with the Lakes, the Manitou - Earth Spirit of Native Americans - a sacred water-center in the Center. In the Hearst/Kap region I felt I was at the high chakra; the one which floats above the head. A few years later when I discovered Clarice and her organic dreams of the Sun King, etc., I was not surprised that she lived in the next town from Hearst. I noticed when the strange and mysterious J.J. Abrams production "Lost" about plane crash survivors lost on a Taoist island with pyschic qualities (in which the earth is presented as strange and psychic, much as space was in the early UFO movies in the '50s) - the season ended with quotes from the Bible Mr. Eko's had carved on his Jesus Stick which read " . . . go to the North" but I couldn't quite get the reference.

Serpent in the Lakes: "Cities are Particles and Waves" at http://quigleyinexile.blogspot.com/2005 ... ivide.html


Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:42 am
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Post Dream Relating to this Thread
Hello to all,

I had the following dream a few nights ago and sent it to Roger. His reply follows and then what happened from there.

Quote:
Straw Roof House

January 19, 2007

I was walking with my mother down my grandparents' Avenue. As we passed my grandparents’ house I noticed that there was a new house now built on the land. It was either 6 or 8-sided and had a straw roof. My mom said that it looked cute and I agreed but I didn’t like it because it looked like the Hansel and Gretel house. We talked about the straw roof and I wondered out loud whether it was real. Then I remembered and told her how a few days earlier my husband and I had cut across my grandparents’ land and we had seen the construction products on the lawn and we had seen the bales of hay – so it was real hay. We kept on walking, we were going to A&W, and it was a nice spring day. The snow had all melted and there had been a fresh rain because the ground was wet. The air was fresh smelling. It was 4:30pm.

My first associations:

The main feeling in the dream was that I was worried that someone had taken over my grandparents' land. And the thing about Hansel and Gretel, well I remember that about a week ago I made reference to Hansel and Gretel, particularly the witch's house but I can't remember what it was all about. For the longest time, in my dreams, I've thought of my grandparents' house as my portal to the "other side," so I am wondering why first of all the house is gone and second a new house is in place? The house was made of red brick and I have a vague memory from the dream of actually touching the house and it was both a real house and a miniature at the same time (very difficult to explain.) A&W was a restaurant that my mom and I used to go to a lot when I was young - there is still a restaurant there but it isn't an A&W. I have had A&W dreams in the past - but you know just as I am typing this I realized a newer association - when we went to my father's funeral we spent most of our time eating at A&W's; they are really popular in the West.


Then Roger's reply:

Quote:
Just a hunch : what if the new house were you ?


In the back of my mind, as I was first sending him the dream, I thought of that possibility but I didn’t dwell on it. So when I got the reply I immediately contemplated the possibility. Wow, what possibilities exploded!

I still don’t remember what I was referring to lately as I compared something to the witch’s house in Hansel and Gretel, but I suddenly remembered – or spontaneously associated (because this was not a repressed memory) that I had played Gretel as a child in our town’s annual parade.

Image

As I sat and I mused about the possibilities that I was the house from Hansel and Gretel I wondered about what happened next in the story after "the end." I thought about today’s society and the state of the world and how Gretel would have coped with that and perhaps retreated to her house in the woods.

I also loved the Hansel and Gretel book, the version by Little Golden Books, illustrated by Eloise Wilkin.

Image

This illustration is not part of the story but it is the picture on the inside cover of the book. It is not the witch’s house after all that had a straw roof but the family home. The witch’s house was made all of candy and gingerbread. I see too that this house is not made of red bricks but the roof is clearly made of straw. So part of this is correct.

The red brick house reminds me of when I was a child and my wish when I grew up to live in a red brick house.

A few synchronicities to report:

As I was musing about the house, I was babysitting, and I realized that the cartoon we were watching was taking place in a farm setting and all the houses had roofs made of straw.
Tonight we gave a ride to my cousin and she works right next to where my dad first had an apartment in town – when he met my mother. The house is made of red brick and I was always fascinated with it. This afternoon I found an envelope full of my dad’s letters that he sent me through the years –what a treasure. I was reading through some of them and I came across this beautiful passage:

Quote:
The Sadness. Before you were born there were two occasions of sending messages to whoever was thinking of coming to be born. Freedom (you’d be welcome regardless of personality) and knowledge (you’d have access to everything.) Didn’t send the sadness but it had been present.


So tonight when we drove right past the house where he used to live when he met my mom I felt like I was receiving the signal, the message, once again from my dad, but this time he was on the other side.

Clarice


Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:06 am
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