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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Synchonistic Thinking and Cognition 
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Post Synchonistic Thinking and Cognition
I'd like to open a new thread with the remark below, first posted in the thread "Elephant threat", http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ments#2110 . I do this in the forum "Healing," since I feel that what I call synchronistic thinking could be a healing procedure for many people stiffened in sterile thinking (intellectualism).

Atomic Bombs Explode in my Head

Roger Faglin wrote:
Quote:
I would like to add that thinking has nonetheless to be developped with feeling types. However not in the way it works with thinking types but as I put somewhere else as the servant of the three other introverted functions; something you do particularly well, Remo.


Roger & All

This is a very important subject. As long as I did math (in my first profession as a software engineer), I had to think consciously. Also in my dissertation I had to think like this. I got a lot of headaches, I can tell you!

Then, all this changed in my big crisis of 1972/73. More and more I felt that "I was thought," to express this very special state a little off-hand (casual?). Something or someone in me began to think, I couldn't help it.

All this began with an incredible experience. When I read a book, I got the impression that atomic bombs are exploding in my brain. I thought that I get now crazy. I remember very exactly the year, when all this began to happen; it was in 1982. Then I realized that I forced myself to go on in reading the book, instead of realizing that certain thoughts in this book activated "own" creative ideas in my head (or belly, or both). I began to write them down, and the nukes in my head disappeared.

Like this I began to write my first own book, Die Gottsucher, Ital.: I Cercatori di Dio (The Quest for God). Also today I'm writing in this mode. I always feel that thoughts would like to be freed, and I feel further where I have to go on in writing. The trouble of this way of writing is that I never can end a manuscript. I must follow the creative flow in myself -- in my Self. Thus, my work will once be a collection of fragments.

Perhaps this is the price that one has to pay, if one is forced to write out of his feeling function.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:49 am
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Post The Synchronistic Cognition Process
In writing Die Gottsucher I did not only follow my feelings, but wrote also mostly directly out of my dreams. It was incredible. I wrote some pages, went to bed and dreamt how to go on. It was a perfect ping-pong. And in fact I dreamt some time before that I am playing tennis with Marie-Louise von Franz (did however not realize what the dream meant; only now I become conscious about this meaning).

Today I see that this way of creative work was perhaps some sort of a synchronistic thinking. I dreamt something, mostly in a symbolic language, dealt with the dream, ie followed a careful association process (as described in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... iation#200 ) and suddenly the meaning of the dream, which was also the continuation of my manuscript, appeared "out of the blue."

Until I wrote the above post as an answer to Roger's question [thanks Roger!], I was not conscious about the fact, that such a way of thinking could be synchronistic. But it could really be like this. First is the dream, and I associate with it. Then, suddenly and spontaneously the interpretation appears. The interpretation was the meaning of the dream, and this meaning was also the meaning of the pages I had to write in the aftermath.

And now the really new thing comes:

Quote:
Could it be that such a synchronistic cognition process is the way how a feeling type should use his inferior (but creative) thinking function?


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:11 am
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Post The Inner Game of Tennis
Remo,

Quote:
It was a perfect ping-pong. And in fact I dreamt some time before that I am playing tennis with Marie-Louise von Franz (did however not realize what the dream meant; only now I become conscious about this meaning).



I once played tennis with MLvF, but I missed her return of my serve!

It goes like this:

I am being led to a secret room that is mine by an invisible person. As we are standing in front of the door I see there is a lock that is used on 'safes'. The person pulls out a key (he does not need to know the combination) and opens the door for me. Inside is a darkly lit room that feels very wealthy. And I see by the fire MLvF and on another side of the room is her dog! I am shocked and a little upset by this intrusion and I say, "What are you doing here!". She merely turns to me with a wry, knowing smile...and I was left astounded, mouth slightly gaping!

Of course she was showing me my problem (and maybe what was hers too?).
She was so near the fire, and her dog was sniffing in other directions....like that time an electrical storm was brewing and her dog took off running for the house, only to be found hiding under the bed.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:30 am
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Post Re: The Inner Game of Tennis
Ryan wrote:
I am being led to a secret room that is mine by an invisible person. As we are standing in front of the door I see there is a lock that is used on 'safes'. The person pulls out a key (he does not need to know the combination) and opens the door for me. Inside is a darkly lit room that feels very wealthy. And I see by the fire MLvF and on another side of the room is her dog! I am shocked and a little upset by this intrusion and I say, "What are you doing here!". She merely turns to me with a wry, knowing smile...and I was left astounded, mouth slightly gaping!


I don't see any problem in this dream. Your reaction is very natural -- "astounded, mouth slightly gaping." This is how we should behave when we experience synchronicities. Like children!

The secret room I know. In my case it was a secret garden I was allowed to enter since -- my name is Remo Roth ... This was a really incredible dream motif. With its help I saw how important the developing of a unique individuality as a precondition (and result) of the individuation process is.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:01 am
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Post Prometheus and Pandora
Remo,

I think you touched on something that struck me deeply.
It brings me back to Prometheus and Pandora and her 'box' though some may translate it as 'jar' or 'vase' and maybe most importantly as the 'Pelican'.

I do not mean to speak cryptically, I feel it is clear. For though we have been given the 'fire', inside this 'Pelican' are wonders to be found...secret wonders, if we allow ourselves to follow our 'dog'; in my case perhaps the english usage of the word 'bitch' is more appropriate. I don't mean this in the American way which is derogatory, but rather positive...for there are precognitive wisdoms contained with in. I suppose that humans have what animals do not, but we mustn't forget that we too are animals and contain something similar to them and their natural reactions.

Image

Ryan

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"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:20 pm
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Post Re: The Synchronistic Cognition Process
Remo Roth wrote:
Until I wrote the above post as an answer to Roger's question [thanks Roger!], I was not conscious about the fact, that such a way of thinking could be synchronistic. But it could really be like this. First is the dream, and I associate with it. Then, suddenly and spontaneously the interpretation appears. The interpretation was the meaning of the dream, and this meaning was also the meaning of the pages I had to write in the aftermath.

And now the really new thing comes:

Quote:
Could it be that such a synchronistic cognition process is the way how a feeling type should use his inferior (but creative) thinking function?


Remo


Remo,

this is the way some kind of cross fertilisation is at work out of the unus mundus; we are conscious 'canals' after all.

I wrote 'Le cri du Pélican' exactly the way you describe. And any time I write, it is like this.

so, yes this is the way a feeling type should use his inferior thinking function, but I guess even this frame is too narrow, too 'jungian'. The more I go, the less I am satisfied with Jung's typology description.

Thinking types can do BCI. Women with their need to develop the Logos side can do BCI. What I mean is that 'thinking as the servant of Eros consciousness' (see my different posts I don't know where) is beyond the Jungian typology ordering... If a typology is needed it has to be reconsidered from the other side point of view.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:38 pm
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Post Kaleidoscopes
Roger,

Quote:
so, yes this is the way a feeling type should use his inferior thinking function, but I guess even this frame is too narrow, too 'jungian'. The more I go, the less I am satisfied with Jung's typology description.


I agree, in fact I'm not ever sure to what end 'typology' serves. I am hopeless in seeing other's typology and mine as well. Pauli experienced a shift in his, and I have felt shifts as well. Maybe as a beginning. Perhaps a view of typology as a sort of Kaleidoscope = literally, 'beautiful + form' and my addition 'ever-changing'.

I meet someone who drives me crazy, and there is the gold!
Typology? Maybe. Reducing it to functions does not really move me.
I am moved and the mover.

Too cryptic perhaps. In a relationship with others, I naturally experience shifts in relationship to the other. Not that I become them, but rather I experience a 'complementary relationship', the result I can never decide. New patterns take form, and like this...we become fluid...the stream perhaps.

Ryan

Edit: Synchronicity from Yesterday: My wife bought Tennis Balls! for my son and dog to play with! And the soundtrack to the Jungle Book - 'Bare Necessities'.

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Last edited by Ryan on Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:59 am
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Post Re: Kaleidoscopes
Ryan wrote:

I meet someone who drives me crazy, and there is the gold!
Typology? Maybe. Reducing it to functions does not really move me.
I am moved and the mover.

Too cryptic perhaps. In a relationship with others, I naturally experience shifts in relationship to the other. Not that I become them, but rather I experience a 'complementary relationship', the result I can never decide. New patterns take form, and like this...we become fluid...the stream perhaps.

Ryan


Ryan,

I guess this has to do with what I call 'being a sponge'.

But of course you still have to keep your roots and stay yourself.

You are on an interesting track.

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:16 pm
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Post Play me 'railroad'!
Thank you Roger,

Yes, I still am experiencing the difference between surfing and coming back to land.

I am going to step back in time a bit, because I realized that the word 'Kaleidoscope' has been sitting in my belly since 1991-2! The use of the word comes from a Turkish teacher of mine. A woman who is deeply introverted and more mystic than actress.

She referred to the 'actor' as the light that shines behind the 'Kaleidoscope' and that the image was the 'character'. The light of the individual gave 'form' to the part we played. Like this the audience saw both the person and the character on the stage.

This individuality is important, this is the aspect that I left out in my previous post. Your use of the word 'track' caught me, and I have been sitting with it. Now, both the sun and the moon provide light and like this both the logos and eros consciousness are the 'two rails of the railroad track' which give direction to our individuality.

Further, in music one 'lays tracks'. It can be accomplished in many ways, but a saxophone is always a saxophone even though it plays with the bass or trumpet. The music is the result of individual voices and like this a song or composition is made. These voices of course are each of us, who have their part to sing. And like Jazz, a conversation.

Perhaps, our individuality gives light to the different functions when it is their turn to play, but this feels too 'willing', because it seems the functions play when they want to....whether we are prepared or not.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:29 pm
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Post The Train with ringing bell!
And now for the Synchronicity!

My wife just brought out a Train! for my son to play with that she has been saving for the right moment, (that I had no idea that existed)!

(In case you're wondering, she doesn't always buy so many things - see my edit above.)

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:51 pm
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Post The Music Teacher and MLvF
Sorry for my long absence and this long post:

Since Sunday my internet connection has been down; a major system failure = I am too extraverted in relation to the computer! It seems that Sunday morning, Pauli’s Music Teacher came to give me a lesson/or I went to see her, who knows which? As I was about to have my coffee a Feynman diagram flashed before my eyes. I know of them, but nothing really of what they mean. If I remember correctly they have something to do with time travel and the creation of particles from particles colliding with each other. Like this, particles and the new particles can travel backward or forward or in another direction…I suppose like an interaction of people or even of thoughts, feelings, memories…ect.


Sunday Morning Dream:


I am in a cave, and there is a female present who I know and she knows this place well. She communicates with another here whose home this is, and music is involved.

I am in the town near this cave, this town feels relatively deserted, it is a dry landscape with hills, yet people live here. There is a small stream or brook in which people can get water with buckets, but it wasn’t very much.

The town decided to build a tunnel, (which looks like the entrance to a cave and also a the exit of a tunnel in which a train passes). Then I see a hole in the ground in front of me which seems to pass through several layers downward, I believe 3 layers or levels like floors in a building.

The construction of the previous tunnel dried up the water source in this town (the stream). It had the opposite affect they thought it would, now the water has sunk further below into the darkness beyond these 3 layers or levels.

I am back in the cave with others. And I am the ‘representative’. I feel this area really belongs to a female ghost or spirit, and I am not sure how she feels about our presence. I see there is a piano/organ present and it feels old and possibly with ‘spider webs’ and that possibly the keys are made of bones or possibly human finger bones. There are sheets of music on the stand. It feels as if this is a piece she plays over and over again as if for eternity. I feel we shouldn’t disturb her things.

At this moment she glides in and she obviously notices us, and she moves around the piano and looks at the music, and though I don’t see the sheets of the music move, I have an ‘inner sight’ of the music falling to the floor and the ‘teacher/ghost’ looking to them and then to me.

I am in another area of the town, and there I am aware that my wife is in the process of giving birth to a baby. I am told, it is going to be a girl. At which point, my wife’s father explains to me that the cost for ‘University’ is 12,000.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I saw that extraversion is extraversion even if Eros is present = the horizontal train and cave. Therefore a type of ‘Newtonian equal and opposite reaction’ is necessary. In this case an equal measure of going down into a relationship of Eros consciousness with the Eros Self alone is the necessary antidote (this balances the horizontal, i.e., the outer life). Only like this will we come in contact with the water.

Also, the music: the piano, very western: whole and half intervals, misses the eastern semi-tones of the sitar for example. The eastern music lives in the shades between colors. The westerner hears the individual colors and the mixture of two colors: this = melody and harmony, and also the chords. Thus, I am not subtle enough. (I will post the associations if anyone wants to see them). The “inner sight suggests“, I should stop reading music and play from my inside = this is how I become more subtle.


Monday Morning Dream:


(I spent the night going back and forth between France and Spain; I saw this on a map)

I visited MLvF or she visited me. It was as if we were in the same house that was both hers and also mine. She was she, yet her behaviors reminded me of myself. I say to her:

“I was wondering if you could look at this?” And I showed her the ‘12,000’. I say, “I see both the Hanged Man and a World Clock, what do you think? Or perhaps I am asking too much, perhaps I shouldn’t bother you like this”. MLvF was placing a cover over the birds in my/her house, putting them to sleep. She looks at me very curious like, and says:

“Look at the Colors”. At which point, I see a ‘tarot’ card flash before my eyes. The form has disappeared, yet I know one exists. All I see are deep blue and deep red alternating vertical stripes, which feel like the body of the person. Up at top I see a yellow light, which is either hair or a ‘holy radiation’.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I woke up with my throat chakra quite awake; the whole area tingling as if the energy was massaging the area up into my lower jaw. I just laid there and allowed the massage to happen. Throat chakra = Pride/Humility = Pauli = Throat cancer.

My first sight into the dream upon waking, was that the vertical lines were ‘blood’ with and without oxygen. (I really did see a hidden world clock and hanged man while awake in the previous dream; the fact I sought further advise about this mystery seems I touched on something).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Healing with Form, Energy and Light:

Pervasive prana moves throughout the body. It is connected to the air element. Because it is everywhere in the body, there is no specific image that reflects its concentration…Pervasive prana is responsible for communication inside the body; it connects the different parts of the body energetically….Pervasive prana allows the effects of meditation and other spiritual practices to spread throughout life. Without it, we may have good experiences but they remain isolated. When most developed, pervasive prana can bridge time and space…

The ultimate signs of integration with the air element are the abilities to transform the body, to be present in more than one place at a time, and to have clairvoyance. Development of prana supports the direct perception of emptiness and is the pranic basis of bliss.

Prana moves through the body in channels. There are said to be 84,000 channels in the body - or alternatively, 360,000 - categorized as gross, subtle, or very subtle. The gross channels are blood vessels, nerves, and the lymph system. The subtle channels are not substantial but are energetic, like the meridians of the energetic circulation system recognized in acupuncture….

There are three main channels used in many of the yogic practices: the central channel and the two side channels….The central channel is blue and rises straight through the center of the body…In women the right channel is symbolized as red and the left as white. In men the right channel is white and the left is red.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My legs are the finger cymbals of a female belly dancer. My belly an African drum that produces long hollow tones in a slow steady rhythm. My heart is a Chinese violin and my arms are the bows. My head is/are Western Cymbals much too loud and crashing….the more they crash together produces a transformation. This final crash produces many butterflies that flutter in a garden.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From an article my mother sent me:

“Such a union would be a proud and happy one for me, and I believe, in the best interests of the center and the university,” said Lady Bird Johnson, who founded the center in 1982. “My devotion to both is complete. The university opened the doors of the universe to me. By the time I had earned two degrees, I realized that education was the beginning of a quest that lasts, and it enabled me a greater capacity to enjoy the world. These qualities emboldened me to establish the center.”

Like this John Philip Sousa has a relationship to DÁDRÁ and the two can play together.

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:45 pm
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Post Body Radiations
Remo,

I am posting a link to your post, because of how much depth it added to my post above.
The necessity of being conscious of all of this is very important. Most importantly of going down into the 'w/hole' to experience the 'University' = 'World Clock' = Body. Here is Remo's very important post:

http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#2142

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:29 pm
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Post The Well
Six in the fourth place means:
The well is being lined. No blame.

True, if a well is being lined with stone, it cannot be used while the work is going on. But the work is not in vain; the result is that the water stays clear. In life also there are times when a man must put himself in order. During such a time he can do nothing for others, but his work is nonetheless valuable, because by enhancing his powers and abilities through inner development, he can accomplish all the more later on.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:09 pm
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Post The Music Teacher and The Chinese Woman
The Music Teacher says:

Humility is knowing
that you are not the source
of the Universe
But Rather
The Universe is the Source
of You
And the Universe
Follows you like a Cobra
Even though
You Be a Buddha
And Our Gift
Is to Be Aware

And I say:

I still don't know the Chinese Woman
But it has something to do with
The Flower Sermon

And She says:

How right you are.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:20 am
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Post Dream From this Morning
I am in a house and I am with a woman
The "white anima" is gone and we are not sure what her fate is.
I see on a wall that there is a space shuttle launch set
And it seems as if I am to go on this journey.
This worries me.

I go to seek help.
I go to visit a female seer
She is in her office sitting casually with her feet up on the desk
An old fashioned type-writer is typing by itself
merely recording her thoughts
This paper is about Sex
She sees me and I tell her my fears
She decides to help me and dismisses another male who appears at the door.

We leave this room and walk outdoors and we arrive to an outside cabin and we enter.
I tell her the situation
It goes like this:

There was a "white anima" and I was with her
Then she went away, and I took her place
I was then with a female who took my previous place
Then the "white anima" came back
and I became a "magician"
Now she is leaving again and I don't know what's going to happen.

She says, "I see. We should do this quickly because my mother and grandmother are coming home soon and we are going to have a party. Please stand there and face the screen and just observe what you see."

At this moment, on a projection screen a series of intensely quick images
begin filling the sreen and I try to follow them with my eyes
There are mountains, mountain peaks, two mountains together
A small lake, trees...all of these images are repeating and recurring
Over and over again like Chinese/Japanese nature paintings.
As all of this is happening an intense energy is being pulled from my open arms and torso toward the screen
Increasing in intensity as the images continue to create and recreate themselves.
The last image I see is a Chinese/Tibetan Character that reads from top to bottom at the bottom of this painting
I have the sensation that the images came from me/my body.
I have the intuition that I must be the Chinese woman who painted these images

The Female Seer asks me: Do you think the "white anima" will live?
I break down crying, saying: I don't know.

End of Dream

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:48 am
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Post 
Ryan,

I am not sure this is the right place to do this so behave according to your feeling: what are your associations with the main parts and characters of the dream?

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:54 am
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Post 
Roger,

Thank you. I am not embarassed to show the dream, though I will keep the associations private. I would like to share the last Chinese/Tibetan Character because it is very important (and funny if you think about it).

Image


Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:24 am
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Post Lama = Llama
Remo and Roger,

Image


Llama/lama (Tib., bla ma; Skt., guru). Lama literally means "highest mother." Lama refers to a spiritual teacher, who is of unsurpassed importance to the student practitioner. In the Tibetan tradition, the lama is considered to be more important even than the buddha, for it is the lama that brings the teachings to life for the student. On an ultimate level, the lama is one's own buddha-nature. On the relative level, the lama is one's personal teacher.

Thank you so much,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:36 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post Initial Response
The last dream is so rich in so many ways I can only begin to touch the surface in this first post.

1.To answer the final question of the dream, the answer is that yes, we must remain in contact with the "white anima". She is the one that keeps us from drowning in the descent.

2. The individual in this case, me; resides in the heart; this is equivilant to Jung's mentioning of the Pueblo Indians who 'think' with the heart. But residing in the heart alone is not enough, a descent must be made into the lower three 'chakras' in which we come in contact with the 'triumvirate' of Female seers. This is a scary process and that is why I was so emotional at the end of the dream.

3.I believe this descent is related to the Demeter/Persephone/Poseidon Mysteries and also to the 'lily' which must be eaten by the 'horse' in the visions of Niklaus von Flüe.

4. I am guessing that the female seer I encountered in the dream was only the first 'chakra' below the heart because of the reference to both her 'mother' and 'grandmother' who gave birth to each other 'below' her. Thus, I am only just beginning to enter the body and belly in the process that both Remo and Roger have tried to share with us.

5. I believe too, that my Real Fear shows that the process should not be rushed and it is a life long process in which we become related to deeper aspects of our bodies and the universe.

6. In my first contact with the female seer we see a form of psycho kinesis which I believed is related to matter displaying intelligent behavior as we come in closer contact with it. Also, it is probably the eros consciousness that Remo and Roger 'write' from.

That is all for now. Anyone who would like to comment further on this, I welcome any insights.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:53 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post Shanshui
Shanshui: mountain water
To give you a sense of what I saw in the dream.

Image

This reminds me of a post Roger made about Zen and the Art of Archery.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:41 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:45 am
Posts: 12
Location: pennsylvania
Post last C/T character
your picture
my association

yummy, yummy, yummy i have a thumb in my tummy!!

through love,

roberta


Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:54 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post Gut Symmetries by Jeanette Winterson
Quote:
Prologue:

November 10 1493. Einsiedeln, Switzerland. Sun in Scorpio.
First ther is the forest and inside the forest the clearing and inside the clearing the cabin and inside the cabin the mother and inside the mother the child and inside the child the mountain.
Paracelsus, physician, magician, alchemist, urge, demiurge, deus et omnia was born under the sign of the occult, ruled by Mars and driven by a mountain in his soul.


It felt appropriate.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:40 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post English = Healing
Dream From Friday Morning:

A Voice Says:

First comes France and Italy
Then comes Shakespeare
Shakespeare then leads to English
And English = Healing.

At first I said, "What the Hell was that?"
Then I did the associations (for me; could be different for someone else.)

France = Introverted Feeling/Sensation
Italy = Extroverted Feeling (Intuition?/Sensation?)
Shakespeare = Union of Logos and Eros
And English has already been associated in the dream (I believe Remo made a similar association)

What is curious is that Healing is related to 'English' and I believe Jung classified the country as 'Sensation' (Though I know it is a generalization as are my associations) Though the dream does not distinguish between and introverted or extroverted sensation, in relationship to Remo's work it would clearly point to an 'introverted' process. However, part of me feels that through 'art' as in the 'painting' that came from my body might be a good start as well.

And this really brings up a question that I still haven't come to terms with: How are Art and Healing different and the same?
It is an open question and perhaps my complete ignorance to what Healing is, is part of my inability to distinguish the two. (I am thinking to of all the guided pieces that people have shared here; be they written, painted, or sculpted...and I think of the healing affects of music as well...Perhaps the very answer is found in the difference between Extroversion and Introverstion...

Any Opinions?

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:41 am
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post 'In and Out' or 'Up and Down'
I am now in the process of sinking deeper into my body, coming into contact and awareness of the deeper levels of energy with in me, I was reminded of Remo's Beta Decay, but it seems that my body doesn't just want me to enter deeper into it, but it also wants to come out and be seen; to be born. My body wants to see the light of day so others can shed their light on my body.

This I feel has something to do with my previous post.

This is perhaps why the guided pieces want to be shared. This reminds me of what my Grandmother said.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:03 am
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post The Mountain
Dream:

There is a large mountain next to our house
And many, many people are descending this mountain
and jumping onto our balcony
and from the balcony they enter our house
My wife is looking for me
She wants me to know that they are here
She is worried that they want something from us
And all she has is simple jewelry, not worth very much.

But I know this jewelry is priceless.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:15 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post "Summertime in England"
We want music! We want song!
We want the hidden chord
Buried among the Living and the Dead!
Tell us your truth
Tell us of the Devil's Mercy and Misery!

And so came a time
When there was light and dark
Up and Down
Inside and Out
And we knew not where to go.

And the people chanted: "It's in your Hands!
The Hands are our connection to this world,
Just as they are your connection to ours!"

Hands that Reach in
Hands that Reach out
This is the secret connection
This is the secret bond
Only with your hands is true contact made-
Hug another, Carve a Stone
Pen to Paper, Food to Mouth

To hear and see
Are the first two steps in the Journey
But without Touch - It is as if you haven't made the Journey at all.
Through your Hands - We Feel Two
Just as you can feel us.

So now, where do we go on this Blind Journey into the Body?
Where do we go, Listening to the Cadence of War?
Aphrodite and Ares
Battle Song and the Foam Born
Beauty and Rage
Mixed and Tied to the Bed For All To See
Blacksmithed Together
Let's Hear Your Rage!
And Paint it Too!
And while you're at it,
Sing that Song and Strum the Guitar
Let our Voices Be Heard
Let our Eyes be Seen
And Give Form to Our Beauty
The Translucent Light of Eternity!

And Ryan says: I guess I'll be spending the 'Summertime in England'. Check out the Song by Van Morrison. I Love it; Play it Loud!

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:56 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post Penguin Diagram
Vision: There is an animal pit in what appears to be a zoo.
It is rectangular and a Bear is at the bottom looking up calling to Seals and Penguins.
The seals jump over the Bear and into a rectangular pool in the center of the pit.
The Bear is still looking up to the Penguins and they are looking down not sure if they are going to be food.

Image

Perhaps someone more qualified can comment more on this. But the image speaks volumes to me.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:12 am
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Posts: 825
Location: Tucson, AZ
Post 
I don't know what to make of it, but the fact that the only "Strange Quark" is coming out of the penguin's right leg says something to me and my own "Strangeness" in my own right leg.

_________________
Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)


Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:00 pm
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Posts: 825
Location: Tucson, AZ
Post 
Ryan, could you perhaps elaborate on what that Penguin diagram is trying to convey (or at least how you interpret it)? I'm a bit lost, but I'm drawn to it.

_________________
Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)


Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:08 am
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Location: Canary Islands
Post Chilean Penguin
Hey Michael,

This photo is from MSN's This Week in Pictures:

Image

A long time ago (It feels like years), I too had a strange feeling running up and down my leg, though it felt good to me. I guess that means we're strange?

I hope all is well,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:21 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post 
Hello Everybody I hope you all are well.

Yesterday, I talked with a good friend of mine who I haven't had much contact with in awhile. We talked because he said that the past few months have been some of the most revelatory in his life. He was unable to get around to talking about what has happened because he was at work and couldn't muster the energy. At the end of our conversation he said he was thinking of sending something to me and that I should check my email the next day. This morning, he didn't write me but I found Remo's Newsletter to all the members of Psychovision. Gift enough, indeed.

My friend, like it or not, always says the right things.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:52 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post Mystery Gift
I received a mystery gift this morning.

This holiday season has been very generous to me, not just in a material way. I received a message on my cell phone from a stranger with a very nice holiday message; an accident from the Universe? So I am taking this opportunity to be THANKFUL.

I waste most of my time, berating myself for what I am not that I lose sight, like so many, of the many gifts I have been given in my life; Loved ones, relationships, my life experiences. I recognize how fortunate I have been, but it is difficult sometimes to feel deserving. I can only say Thank you.

All the stuff posted about Transference and Projection means very little to me. Because, in the end, I believe relatedness is what I seek and run away from and seek...for me that is the only thing that matters. Talking to my friend the other day reminded me of that too.

So I am Thankful for this mystery gift, because in the mystery there is a connection to the unknown and a feeling of the generousity of surprises and gratitude to the person who sent it who obviously took the time to think about me.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:25 pm
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Canary Islands
Post 
Jung felt he couldn't say anything about Love, yet he felt what was important was if one was related to something infinite or not.
In my better moments, I have felt related to a degree and it is usually in my worse moments in which I feel the most unrelated to anything including myself. I wonder if Love is relatedness, for better or worse.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:45 pm
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:16 am
Posts: 825
Location: Tucson, AZ
Post 
Hey, Ryan! Long time, no see. Great posts.

It is amazing how much we take for granted. It's one of the greatest challenges to always recognize how lucky I am, no matter how dire the present circumstances may seem. I read somewhere, maybe here, that the greatest prayer to say is, "Thank you." :D

Love and Communication,
Michael

_________________
Birth is the death of the life we have known; death is the birth of the life we have yet to live. (Marion Woodman)


Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:15 pm
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