UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:28 am



 [ 4 posts ] 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 Bob's Shamanic Journey to Four Possible Futures 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:48 pm
Posts: 174
Location: San Andreas, California USA
Post Bob's Shamanic Journey to Four Possible Futures
Dear Forum Friends,

I apologize for interjecting a new subject while there is still so much left to comment on about Steiner and Sweitzer, etc., etc.

I just posted the following as a blog on http://www.murraycreek.net but really wanted to share it simultaneously here as well as let my family and a few interested friends in on what I have been receiving that has had me so preoccupied the past week or so.

Perhaps now I can go back and pick up on previous threads.

Betty, how was your day with Jean Houston? I had wanted to let you know my interest in her as well but the post I wrote dropped through a crack and I didn't have the focus to try recreating it. But I am anxious to hear.

I'm just going to post this without care to formatting and see how it comes out and if not ok will attempt a later edit.

With love to all,
Ann

Bob’s 1983 Shamanic Journey to Four Possible Futures.

In the fall of 1983 Bob attended a Ghost or Dream Dance Workshop led by Michael Harner under whom, for several years, he had been a student of the “generic” shamanism the Dartmouth anthropologist was dedicated to reviving. Bob, when he first had read Harner’s Way of the Shaman, had recognized the “way” as one that he had spontaneously experienced, not knowing it was the path of shamans the world over, perhaps even that of his own druidic ancestors.

In recent journal dialogs and ongoing telepathic conversations with Bob he has been urging me to find and transcribe his journal notes from this particular workshop. The impression to do so began after the September 2008 stock plunge of 777.7 points. At the time I had understood this highly remarkable numeric symbolism as “handwriting on the wall”—a major, collective, synchronistic sign pointing to the ending/beginning of a reordering of cultural priorities—even the soon approaching end of the world as it has been understood over the last four-hundred-years’ reign of the “age of reason” and “scientific materialism.” Was this quadrupled number of the completion of a creative process signaling the paradigm shift many have been expecting, and by which the nature of this physical reality will be redefined for future generations?

Then, several days ago, while looking for something else, I came across Bob’s shamanic journals, including his Ghost Dance workshop experiences.

The 1983 workshop consisted of three sessions on two successive days. The first was a ceremonial religious enactment known as the “Standing Dance.” The second was the “Sioux Dance.” These rituals had first appeared in the Missouri basin and spread to and beyond the Rockies in the mid to late 1800s, moving west in a very few years to Nevada, and from there to Northern California, even to Jamestown, not far from Murray Creek. The rationale for regaining lost knowledge from the ancestors of particular native peoples seems to have been two-fold: to seek help of a personal, healing nature; and to obtain guidance from tribal ancestors concerning ceremonial rituals by which the physical and spiritual worlds and their inhabiting beings. Through certain prescribed, and trance inducing ceremonies trans-dimension communication was enabled to guide a working together in mutually beneficial ways. I can only assume that in doing so they believed the catastrophic events associated with apocalyptic times could be averted or passage through such times aided and alieviated.

Now, some twenty-five years later–at the end of 2008–Bob, from his spirit world perspective, seems to be attempting to communicate that we are in a similar position of needing to seek the guidance or wisdom from higher spiritual beings as to how best to prepare and take an active role in moving into, through, and beyond a time when again one way of life could be ending and another beginning. And whose help best to seek but those who have experienced similar times and whose help in time honored ways is available.?

In any event, what follows are notes from Bob’s shamanic journey concerning his personal participation in the “Standing Dance.”

This Standing Dance begins on the toes with four beats followed by a pause. With a feather (or handkerchief) held in the right hand and moving clockwise without pausing, the left hand is placed over the heart. Around a fire or candle in the center, the dance is carried on until the participants fall down in an altered state of consciousness.

In describing his experience Bob recorded:

I went up in a whirlwind through a nondescript intermediate world to a barren land I took to be in the South Western United States. From there I followed a rocky trail over a rise into a hollow. There I observed a hut with smoke coming out. It was next to a long cave which opened into a hill. I sat before the opening to wait for a sign that I was to enter. Very soon an old man came part way out of the cave and motioned for me to come that way. I entered what was a very large, high ceiling cavern. A large fire was in the center with torches set around the walls. I sat on the earth near the fire. Men and some women and children came in and sat around the fire. At first all seemed to be Native Americans, but then I noticed a sprinkling of white people, including some in old time U S Cavalry uniforms. A large peace pipe was lit and began the rounds.

My preliminary intention had been to ask for guidance in healing techniques for my wife, family, and circle of friends. A secondary question had been in reference to the earth and to its healing.

I watched as a young US Cavalry soldier took the pipe and, on drawing in the smoke, burst into tears. As the pipe was passed on several Indians gathered around to comfort the soldier. When the pipe came to me I reluctantly drew in the smoke. As an ex-smoker I was fearful of getting re-hooked. Without inhaling I filled my mouth and then expelled the smoke and passed the pipe along.

I noticed some present in the room were not Americans but Russians and Russian soldiers, all of whom were participating. As the room became more and more crowded, and we squeezed together, the feeling was good.

Then an Elder got up and began speaking. I did not recognize him. In fact his features were quite fluid—first appearing to be Indian, then Anglo, and his features altering once again into another ethnicity. This Elder was gray-haired and with a look of wisdom. I was not able to make out his words but strained to understand from his gestures, expressions, and what I could read of his thoughts, what the gist of his message was. The clearest I was able to make out was that times of great trouble were coming to certain peoples of the world and that only by helping our “enemies” or being helped by them, and this done without rancor, could we survive.

Workshop Day Two: The Sioux Dream Dance

Again, the following is transcribed from Bob’s journal notes:

In this ceremonial dance there was no fire or candle in the center of the circle and no drumming.

We gathered in a round circle holding hands. In a clockwise direction we moved our left foot and dragged the right up to it. As we moved we sang the Circle or Ghost Dance song. Swinging our arms way up and then down, with Michael in the center as guide, we waved a feather or handkerchief. As we began to stagger we were told to make “Whoo!!” sounds, and when overcome to allow ourselves to fall into the center of the circle. As one after another fell into the center, others closed the circle and continued singing and moving. No one was to touch the fallen (dreaming) dancers. After a time those who remained standing stopped moving and sat down, forming an outer circle.

Having fallen into trance, Bob’s journal describes what he experienced:

I struggled to rise to the upper worlds. Very soon a group of “Elders” came down to help lift me and with their help I went very rapidly to the second upper world and into a small cave about size of a living room but with a lower ceiling. I dropped in a heap in the center of a sandy area, curled up in an almost fetal position. I actually was on the floor at the workshop and was gasping for breath. When this quieted I became aware of about six to eight Elders sitting about in a semi circle studying me. The leader told me curtly to stand up. When I did he told me to strip naked. I did. Then he told me to turn slowly in a circle. I became acutely aware as to how I looked in their eyes with a heavy flabby middle of 25 to 30 extra pounds–mostly in the area of the belly, but with added weight spread over my torso. I knew this was slowing me down and robbing my energies. The knowledge came over me that I was to get in shape—to resume and extend my Friday fasts, and to seriously diet and exercise. I told the Elders I understood what they were advising me and asked what I should do after following a regime of bodily renewal. But I was told, again very curtly, to wait until I was in shape and then come back and ask. Again I asked for further instruction. This time I received a somewhat kinder response that I should continue what I was doing but not to expect new instructions until I was in shape.

The Future Ones

After a break, a second Sioux Dance commenced. Again with left hand on right shoulder and shuffling clockwise, Michael again in the center, the participants bobbed down, then back up, chanting as we did:

Future Ones, Future Ones show us what you know. [Bob notes he was uncertain of the exactness of these words.] We continued in this until falling into the center as in the previous Sioux Dance.

I knew right away that I would have to go through and above the first and second upper worlds. I shot up as if I had a booster rocket attached in the back to my belt. I went right through the first and then the second world. The third world seemed to be all glaring white. The fourth world was dark or very dim. I was moving very fast and may have flashed by other worlds. The upward passage at times appeared blurred.

Then, slowing down, I entered a very strange, surreal, science fiction type world of discharging bolts of energy, and a strange pulsating red light as if from a volcano. There was no sign of life. I came to rest at the top of a very tall steep mountain-like object. I soon began to feel it was alive, that it was one of the Future Ones, but a non human life form. I asked to be shown the future and was answered, a bit sarcastically,

“Which one? The future is not fixed.”

I was told to look up at the horizon. It was a huge world with a horizon much farther in the distance than on earth. I seemed to be swerving as I was shown hundreds of contrasting areas, and as they came into view–not clearly but dimly—the scene was like a huge pie cut in radiating wedges from the point where I was standing.

I then asked to see the most likely futures.

The first I was shown was a Narnia type Golden Age world. Here there were large talking animals in what appeared to be a rich fascinating paradise.

“Is this the best or most likely” I asked.

“Both.” I was told.

The Second world was a super crowded, super technical world.

The Third was the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust

And the Fourth was a Dark Ages.

I asked what I was to do. In answer I was told to continue opening doors into shamanic worlds.

_________________
To get the viewpoint of the other person appreciatively and profoundly and reconcile it with his own so far as possible is the supreme achievement of man and his highest vocation.
Henry Nelson Wieman


Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:59 pm
Profile WWW
Post possible futures in our hands
Hi Ann.

I am so grateful you posted this right now.
On Dec. 15 I had the following dream:

I am at a friend's house and she tells me that she has a guest staying with her who wanted to meet me.

She introduces me to Mark. (I have never seen this man before in real life)

Mark says he wanted to see me because he has a message for me which is from ancient prophecies yet relevant for now.

He said that the whole planet would be asked one question.

The earth will have 5 minutes to telephone in the answer. ( telephone is communicated thought process or transmission)

The Future of the planet depended on how the earth answers the question.

I looked at my watch and saw the dial hands on the face turning very fast forward and then spinning backwards and then both ways.

I realized that there was no way with this watch to tell clock time. The watch was useless so I took it off.I then looked at my waist pack that I always wear except this one is made from leather. The purse is dissentegrating and falling apart. It can hold nothing. There is no use carrying anything.

I take it off too and put it down.

end of dream.



I meditated on this dream later but do not want to share the answers I received at this point.

What is important to mention here to all is:

What is this one question whose answer will determine the future of the world.

Later I will reveal what I received in vision question/answer locution.


Love to all

Betty


ps. circumstances prevented me from traveling to hear Jean Houston.


Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:31 am
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:32 am
Posts: 827
Images: 1
Location: Virginia, USA
Post Re: Bob's Shamanic Journey to Four Possible Futures
murraycreek wrote:
Dear Forum Friends,

I apologize for interjecting a new subject while there is still so much left to comment on about Steiner and Sweitzer, etc., etc.

I just posted the following as a blog on http://www.murraycreek.net but really wanted to share it simultaneously here as well as let my family and a few interested friends in on what I have been receiving that has had me so preoccupied the past week or so.

Perhaps now I can go back and pick up on previous threads....

Hi Ann and Betty, I am only going to quote a few things here from your messages for now, starting off with Ann's posting about Bob's vision of alternative futures and then what Betty said.

Quote:
Bob’s 1983 Shamanic Journey to Four Possible Futures.

In recent journal dialogs and ongoing telepathic conversations with Bob he has been urging me to find and transcribe his journal notes from this particular workshop. The impression to do so began after the September 2008 stock plunge of 777.7 points. At the time I had understood this highly remarkable numeric symbolism as “handwriting on the wall”—a major, collective, synchronistic sign pointing to the ending/beginning of a reordering of cultural priorities—even the soon approaching end of the world as it has been understood over the last four-hundred-years’ reign of the “age of reason” and “scientific materialism.” Was this quadrupled number of the completion of a creative process signaling the paradigm shift many have been expecting, and by which the nature of this physical reality will be redefined for future generations?

OTHER PARTS LEFT OUT HERE

The Future Ones

After a break, a second Sioux Dance commenced. Again with left hand on right shoulder and shuffling clockwise, Michael again in the center, the participants bobbed down, then back up, chanting as we did:

Future Ones, Future Ones show us what you know. [Bob notes he was uncertain of the exactness of these words.] We continued in this until falling into the center as in the previous Sioux Dance.

I knew right away that I would have to go through and above the first and second upper worlds. I shot up as if I had a booster rocket attached in the back to my belt. I went right through the first and then the second world. The third world seemed to be all glaring white. The fourth world was dark or very dim. I was moving very fast and may have flashed by other worlds. The upward passage at times appeared blurred.

Then, slowing down, I entered a very strange, surreal, science fiction type world of discharging bolts of energy, and a strange pulsating red light as if from a volcano. There was no sign of life. I came to rest at the top of a very tall steep mountain-like object. I soon began to feel it was alive, that it was one of the Future Ones, but a non human life form. I asked to be shown the future and was answered, a bit sarcastically,

“Which one? The future is not fixed.”

I was told to look up at the horizon. It was a huge world with a horizon much farther in the distance than on earth. I seemed to be swerving as I was shown hundreds of contrasting areas, and as they came into view–not clearly but dimly—the scene was like a huge pie cut in radiating wedges from the point where I was standing.

I then asked to see the most likely futures.

The first I was shown was a Narnia type Golden Age world. Here there were large talking animals in what appeared to be a rich fascinating paradise.

“Is this the best or most likely” I asked.

“Both.” I was told.

The Second world was a super crowded, super technical world.

The Third was the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust

And the Fourth was a Dark Ages.

I asked what I was to do. In answer I was told to continue opening doors into shamanic worlds.

Betty replied: possible futures in our hands
Hi Ann.
I am so grateful you posted this right now.
On Dec. 15 I had the following dream:

I am at a friend's house and she tells me that she has a guest staying with her who wanted to meet me.
She introduces me to Mark. (I have never seen this man before in real life)
Mark says he wanted to see me because he has a message for me which is from ancient prophecies yet relevant for now.

He said that the whole planet would be asked one question.

The earth will have 5 minutes to telephone in the answer. ( telephone is communicated thought process or transmission)

The Future of the planet depended on how the earth answers the question.

I looked at my watch and saw the dial hands on the face turning very fast forward and then spinning backwards and then both ways.

I realized that there was no way with this watch to tell clock time. The watch was useless so I took it off.I then looked at my waist pack that I always wear except this one is made from leather. The purse is dissentegrating and falling apart. It can hold nothing. There is no use carrying anything.

I take it off too and put it down.

end of dream.

I meditated on this dream later but do not want to share the answers I received at this point.

What is important to mention here to all is:

What is this one question whose answer will determine the future of the world.

Later I will reveal what I received in vision question/answer locution.

Love to all
Betty

Suzanne replies: So, I saw this from Ann the other day and Betty's reply also about futures, but I did not have the time or focus to post anything. So, here I am at this Saturday morning. I was thinking about futures and recalled I had sent an E-mail to Ann a few months ago that said Lee indicated that the future is not fixed. I just looked that up a couple of hours ago and saw that I sent it on 9/11. Then I switched back to look at my current E-mail just coming in and a new one that had not been there earlier was from the Noetic Institute. There were a number of choices to click on, but I picked this one:

Transcript Willis Harman on "The Paradigm Shift" - IONS has a long history of visionary leaders who speak potent truths, beginning with our founder Edgar Mitchell. Prominent among these leaders is Willis Harman, who was President for more than twenty years, from 1975 to 1996. It feels appropriate to return to his deep wisdom today and take the long view on history that he offers. This quarterly premium, which we have entitled The Paradigm Shift, offers you some of the most inspired passages from a program Willis recorded in 1988. - Details

OK, first here I will put what I sent to Ann on 9/11. I have to leave out parts that would make it too easy for other people to identify Lee, so lots of this is kind of vague because of that.

Lee says that the future is not totally predetermined to be one way or another. We can change it by personally and collectively altering our "intent" to love and compassion for all -- just as he had changed his BONG (weapon) machine into a potential musical device by a slight alteration in its design. He is trying to teach me how to organize some of the information he has given to me so that it can be posted in the blog in shorter topics more often. He says it does not matter how many actually read it because just the process of our doing this will have a collective effect for the better -- however it is that can work, I do not fully understand...


Here is part of what Willis Harman had to say in the transcript mentioned above:
Quote:
Recognize and affirm the proposition that war can be outlawed only though a total change of beliefs that separate nation from nation, persons from nature and each of us from our own deeper selves. Affirm that this total change in the global mindset can be accomplished. The change will spread mainly from person to person and every individual’s effort counts. Now, we’re not talking about a simplistic power of positive thinking. To hold and affirm the positive image of a world that works for everyone in which there is harmony between people and the earth, that is not simplistic. Because interconnectedness of all minds, affirming a positive vision, may be about the most sophisticated action anyone can take.

Your inner work consists of at least three aspects. One: discover the potentiality of the deep intuition as a guide and resource, this means exploring your own spectrum of creativity. Using relaxation exercises, meditation, maybe even your dreams as resources. The second aspect of inner work is changing your beliefs about the limitations of your capacities. The limits you believe you have are the limits you have. You’ll be amazed at what you can do when you allow yourself to explore the notion of there being no limits to your potential. And the third aspect of inner work is changing your beliefs that collectively held shape the national and global institutions that perpetuate conditions of non-peace in the world.

You probably have little difficulty understanding how your individual beliefs have created problems for you, it’s a bit more difficult to understand how collectively held beliefs create global problems. The fundamental breeding ground of non-peace is the unconscious beliefs that create barriers, separations and tensions. Remember that there can be strong resistance to challenging collectively held beliefs. The church fathers refused to look through Galileo’s telescope because the moons he claimed were traveling around Jupiter, couldn’t possibly be there. We are in a similar position when we seek to unveil collective beliefs that don’t serve us. So the inner work may be unsettling at first; both the work involving self image and the work involving life inhibiting collective beliefs. Yet, as you progress, you’ll find it getting easier and more joyous. As the negative separating beliefs are brought to light, there is a strengthening of the positive vision of a world that could be and an increasing sure footedness with which one undertakes action to bring it about.

It is important to be involved with some work in the world. It will keep the inner work from becoming too introspective and the outer work will be increasingly effective as it is informed by the progress of the inner work. Each one of us has his, or her, own unique outer role to be discovered and played. It may be a significant public role or it may be a small quiet one. It may be the role of social activism or of patient healing, of lecturing to crowds or of taking care of children at home. Whatever it is, do it as well as possible; it’s important. We started off this segment with the question of how we can focus the insights of this program on global peace. I’m afraid the answer I’ve given you is no different than the insight I’ve been trying to communicate all along. The change in the outer world will come as a result of work done in the inner world of our psyches. And since there is no separation, your inner world will benefit as a result of the conscious action choices you make every day.

That's all for now, Suzanne

Edited to add: I just noticed that Betty's post had been 999 and my reply is 1000 in the number of posts at the Healing with help from out of the UNUS MUNDUS section of the forum... for those who like to keep track of number significances.

_________________
"Only if a man dares to entrust himself again to the depth of his origin can he reach the height for which he was destined." Karlfried Graf Durckheim


Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:22 pm
Profile Personal album
Post questions
Hi Ann and Suzanne and anyone reading

I still do not want to put my further insights into the above dream out here---- yet.

However I have been asking some people around me this question.

What could the one question be whose answer will determine the future of the world?



Here is what I heard so far.


Do you believe in God?


Will you choose to spiritualize the world ?


Will you serve the world in ways that will bring peace and help all beings?


Then what I hear from Suzann'e quote from Lee: Will you turn your weapons into plowshares?


(as he turned a weapon into a musical instrument_
_

Ans from Bob-------I hear ---- Will you choose paradise on earth where the animals have a voice too.




My friend Theophane ( now passed ) a trappist monk was at a conference some years ago with me. It was 5 days on contemplative prayer and transpersonal psychology. Amazing moments.


On the last day he asked me "what was the most spiritual moment for you of this conferencej". I began to answer him and he stopped me. He said "no don't answer me instead ask the person next to you the same question and have them pass it on too."



It seems that asking the question or wondering about the question opens possibilities
However I think it is equally important to answer the question .

Suzanne's quote from Noetic Science (one of the most helpful groups on the planet inmy mine) points us to the question:

Will you bring peace to the world?


I guess Jesus said this too: Will you love God and your neighbor as yourself. Will you love your enemy and do good to those who harm you.

And St. Francis proposed his prayer as the question and the answer


And then the question and answer ----- Will Peace Begin With Me? from the song

All of the above seems rather disjointed and scattered to me --- however perhaps this is the time to disjoint and scatter and become something new.

love you

Betty


Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:18 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 4 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.