UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Seal of Solomon, Unus Mundus and Inner Quantum Leap 
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Post Seal of Solomon, Unus Mundus and Inner Quantum Leap
<RFR: Title revised because of the content of the thread>

I was re-reading some Edinger from his Aion lectures and this includes a nice summary of the quaternity or a cyclical succession of 4 quaternities as the god-image of the christian eon (aion). Ezekial's vision being an early version of the symbol with the 4 wheeled chariot,etc.

Seems like the seal of solomon is a leading candidate for a symbol for the aquarian god-image of a new hermetic aion/age.

When did the seal of solomon/6 pointed star begin to appear ?

When did it become associated with the heart chakra ?


Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:17 pm
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Hey Tom

Check out another thread on the UM in the 'coniunctio' section - "A dream of the Seal of Solomon" - for some thoughts on the Seal. It's a huge topic actually, especially in regard to the hermetic concept of the 'Holy Wedding'. It is definately a symbol of the 'coniunctio', as Remo's work attests.

It was thought by many that the Seal was Jewish in origin, but it has been discovered that it is very old and may well have come out of Sumeria or Egypt, even elsewhere, long before the Semitic based religions had taken hold.

The Seal combines 2 trinitys - the upward pointing and the downward pointing triangles, going beyond the quaternity as a worthy symbol for the new aion.

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:34 am
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Post Re: seal of solomon
Tom

tom.guerry wrote:
I was re-reading some Edinger from his Aion lectures and this includes a nice summary of the quaternity or a cyclical succession of 4 quaternities as the god-image of the christian eon (aion). Ezekial's vision being an early version of the symbol with the 4 wheeled chariot,etc.

Seems like the seal of solomon is a leading candidate for a symbol for the aquarian god-image of a new hermetic aion/age.

When did the seal of solomon/6 pointed star begin to appear ?

When did it become associated with the heart chakra ?


First: My research has shown that the development Carl Jung shows in AION is not correct, since he looks at it as a causal development from one quaternity to the other, and so on. This is a typically patriarchal view, since causality and patriarchism is more or less one and the same.

We have to imagine the development much more as

{quaternity -> Seal of Solomon -> quantum leap (quintessence) -> new quaternity}.

Then a second time the same, then a third time and then a fourth time.

Thus, we should imagine a Seal between the four quaternities, which means that there is always what I call a singular quantum leap, which initializes a new development.

It would now be fascinating to compare Carl Jung's statements of the fourfould change of the God-image with historical facts, ie: Were there also historical revolutions close to the mentioned changes in the God-image (if it is possible to fix them more exactly in historical time). I guess Kristin has worked about all this.

Thus, the Seal of Solomon must be, as Kristin mentions, very old, since it symbolizes what I call the singular acausal quantum leap in history as well as in the individual life. Though the quantum leap was only re-discovered at the beginning of the last century, the idea is of course an old one. It is the so-called creatio continua as an opposition to the creatio ex nihilo; see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... ion541.htm , section 5.4.3. The latter is the causal creation as for example demonstrated in the Genesis, the former, however, is an acausal creation mode -- what I call the singular acausal quantum leap. During the 2000 years of Christianity the latter was repressed, but in the simple people it was always present as the force of the (black) Madonna. See thread http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=76 .

The earliest source of the Seal of Solomon I know is the Gnosis of Simon Magus, described in Leisegang, Hans: Die Gnosis, Kröner Stuttgart, 5. Aufl., 1985, S. 60ff. (Perhaps there exists an English translation of this first fundamental work about the Gnosis). In it he shows the background of the world as a double trinity: The first trinity is the world spirit, the world soul and the (material) universe, the world body. It is the macrocosmic trinity. The second trinity is a mirror of the above, and consists in the human spirit, the soul and the body. As the trinity and its mirror the whole system creates the Seal of Solomon (however not expressis verbis mentioned by Simon Magus; but the idea is of course the same).

Out of this double trinity, the Seal of Solomon, Simon Magus develops a whole genesis, which happens however not at the first six days of the Jewish Genesis, but any time, and especially in any human. Thus, already here we see the predecessor of the Hermetic alchemical idea that man has to redeem God and/or the universe. Of course it was especially because of this idea that the Church Fathers condemned Simon Magus -- the antagonist of Simon Petrus, the first pope (they really fought against each other) -- as a heretic.

It was Paracelsus who introduced the Seal of Solomon, together with the pentagram, into alchemy. Thus, during the 16th century it came back. Paracelsus thought however that it is of Jewish origin. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that it plays a role in the Kabbala (but not in Rabbinic Judaism, as Gershom Scholem has shown).

The Seal of Solomon or "magen David" plays an important role in Chassidism, the mystic tendencies of East European Judaism. Perhaps it entered Hermetic alchemy from this source, but also from the Kabbala in Spain, since Paracelsus knew of the most important works of this branch of the Kabbala.[/i]

Remo

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Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:46 am
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Post Re: seal of solomon
Quote:
Thus, already here we see the predecessor of the Hermetic alchemical idea that man has to redeem God and/or the universe.


I guess that behind the apocalyptic ideas of Bush as well as of Bin Laden (and Ahmadinedshad) is this unconscious identification with the deeply archetypal Gnostic redemption motif. Since they are completely unconscious about what is constellated in them, the idea is projected into the outer world, and they believe that they have to save the world by war ...

Since this idea is deeply archetypal and belongs to the apocalypse, these ideas are so incredibly dangerous.

Only becoming conscious of the constellated archetype, and like this the task and challenge to develop an inner method to deal with it can become a counterweight to this apocalyptic development. I hope that as many humans as possible begin to understand what I mean, and begin this inner work, which is nothing else than what Isaak Luria's Cabbala anticipated (see end of http://www.psychovision.ch/ufnw/egeln_chap13_roth.htm ).

Remo

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The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:52 am
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Post Re: seal of solomon
tom.guerry wrote:
Seems like the seal of solomon is a leading candidate for a symbol for the aquarian god-image of a new hermetic aion/age.


Yes, as much as I can see, the Seal of Solomon, and especially Nicholas von Flue's Radbild, are the symbol of the coming experience (already here in UFO/"ET" encounter and abduction) of what I call the singular acausal quantum leap. It is an inner experience one observes when doing Body-Centered Imagination, in which one transforms consciously from the Logos ego to the Eros ego. This means implicitely that one stops consciously thinking during the meditation, like this is not centered in the head anymore but in the heart, and in this state just observes what the world soul likes to create in one's own belly. In stercore inventitur -- in the dirt we will find the lapis, the gold, the Seal of Solomon.

Quote:
When did it become associated with the heart chakra ?


I do not know how old the image, the symbol of the heart chakra

Image

is, but it seems that it exists already very early in Tantrism. In my interpretation the Seal of Solomon belongs to the heart chakra since the heart is the place where in almost every mystic tradition man and god meet. In earlier times such a meeting was only possible in deepest introversion -- but today it happens to people also extravertedly, but against their will, in UFO/"ET" experiences. They are spontaneously thrown into what I call the Eros ego, and like this they experience what I call the Eros Self or the unus mundus (and its energetical principle, the world soul) and the creation and incarnation processes out of this unus mundus. The happen in our world of today in the outside (respectively in the "inside/outside" in the abduction phenomenon), since we do not know anymore what introverted feeling is.

The symbolism "Seal of Solomon in the heart" is equivalent to the Radbild (wheel image) of Nicholas von Flue.

Image

I have shown that the center of the Radibild relates to the human heart, and that the symbol "heart" means a deep introversion. The symbol "heart" is connected to the introverted feeling function. If we become able to concentrate on the latter, we are "in the heart of the universe", ie in a place where our heart and the universe are one and the same "thing". It is the today famous "point A" situation Carl Jung described already in 1929.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:18 am
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Post Point A
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the 'Point A' that Jung discusses? Is it published? Or is it in an unpublished lecture?

I am very curious, because in the Tibetan Buddhist/Bon systems the Sanskrit 'A' is of great importance for them and holds a wealth of meanings. Too, it is also used in visualizations, specifically within the chakras.

Thanks,

Ryan

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Sat May 06, 2006 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Point A
Ryan wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the 'Point A' that Jung discusses? Is it published? Or is it in an unpublished lecture?

I am very curious, because in the Tibetan Buddhist/Bon systems the Sanskrit 'A' is of great importance for them and holds a wealth of meanings. Too, it is also used in visualizations, specifically within the chakras.


It is what Carl Jung describes as follows:

Quote:
“So far as I can grasp the nature of the collective unconscious [RFR: the unus mundus], it seems to me like an omnipresent continuum, an unextended Everywhere. That is to say, when something happens here at point A which touches upon or affects the collective unconscious [RFR: the unus mundus], it has happened everywhere.“ [Letters, vol. 1, p. 58]




Remo

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The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat May 06, 2006 2:51 pm
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Post Hologram?
Would you say this is related with Bohm's Hologram? I know very little in relationship to physics, but is sounds like there is a similarity.

Ryan

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Sat May 06, 2006 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Hologram?
Ryan wrote:
Would you say this is related with Bohm's Hologram? I know very little in relationship to physics, but is sounds like there is a similarity.


Ryan, now I ask you to forgive my ignorance. I do not know what "Bohm's Hologram" is. But it seems that we can begin here a very interesting discussion about what physicists call the hologram, which is however, IMO, something much deeper.

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat May 06, 2006 7:05 pm
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Post The Hologram
Remo,

Simply put, David Bohm believes the Universe is a Hologram and that material reality is a 3 dimensional illusion (Buddhism, Maya). He believes that everything is an extension of a single whole (unus mundus) and that each individual contains the whole within them just as a single holographic cell contains the entire image of the hologram.

He believes this explains how sub atomic particals can instantaneously communicate with each other.

He also has worked with brain researcher Karl Pribram who believes the brain functions as a hologram as well, specifically in relation to memories (which I think has interesting parallels to the collective unconscious and the 'point A' which you explained to me.)

Here is a link that explains in more detail what I have just said:

http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

I hope my brief introduction helped a bit.

Ryan

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Sun May 07, 2006 10:11 am
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Ryan

Quote:
Ryan PostPosted: 07 May 2006 11:11 am


What a nice time the unconscious chosed ... See thread 11:11, http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=64

Remo

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The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
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Sun May 07, 2006 11:10 am
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Post 11:11
Remo,

I wonder if the 11:11 really is a call to live in the Tao.

I remember reading (I don't remember which book of Von Franz) that the number 11 is the number of the Tao.

And if we can look at the numbers as positing two sides of reality separated by the ":" it would indeed be asking us to unify or make both sides equal to each other.

To say it another way, perhaps the Tao exists on one side, and it is our responsibility to live it on this side.

Ryan

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Sun May 07, 2006 11:35 am
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Post Re: 11:11
Ryan wrote:
Remo,

I wonder if the 11:11 really is a call to live in the Tao.

I remember reading (I don't remember which book of Von Franz) that the number 11 is the number of the Tao.

And if we can look at the numbers as positing two sides of reality separated by the ":" it would indeed be asking us to unify or make both sides equal to each other.

To say it another way, perhaps the Tao exists on one side, and it is our responsibility to live it on this side.

Ryan



To put it my way, I guess that the further step would be to go from wu wei observation (through for instance BCI) to the integration of the Eros dimension into a new way of living... a really new one!

Roger

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The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

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Sun May 07, 2006 11:59 am
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Ryan

I described the Tao aspect of # 11 in

http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ht=tao#238

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
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The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
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Sun May 07, 2006 1:16 pm
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Post David Bohm's implicate/explicate order and my theory
Ryan

I guess that the "holographic universe" is an idea, which is based on the Hermetic alchemical idea of the unus mundus. This "universe behind the universe" is only potential, and out of it the universe or parts of it are created. This is, in contrast to the big bang hypothesis, possible at any time after the big bang. This creation process is called the creatio continua (of the world soul), in contrast to the creatio ex nihilo (Genesis and big bang).

Further, the unus mundus is timeless and spaceless and massless. Or in other words: According to my hypothesis the unus mundus is infinite and eternal since in it the time measure as well as the space measure have become infinite. This means on the one hand that in this space the point and the infinite universe are one and the same. On the other hand this means that the now is the same as eternity.

In contradiction to Bohm's and the other's model I postulate that out of this potential world the reality of the space and time bound world is created. This is the creation myth described by the so-called coniunctio or unio corporalis or Holy Wedding of Hermetic alchemy, which is equivalent to the second phase of Gerardus Dorneus' opus.

This creation happens according to the principle of the Kopenhagen interpretation of quantum physics: Only the observation creates reality. Thus, as soon as a human individual is able to observe such a potential incarnation, it is realized in our space and time bound world. Like this I interpret Carl Jung’s point A hypothesis and root it in modern quantum physical epistemological insights. This view is a further difference to all the other models. It means that the human individual becomes -- as Isaak Luria's Cabbala states -- the co-creator of the world. Further, I can show an empirical way how such a challenge can be realized.

The observation of the creation and incarnation act of the world soul, the queen containing in her womb the sperm of the dead king, is however only able in the altered state of the Eros consciousness, since only the latter is able to observe what I call the Eros Self, ie the queen containing in her womb the sperms or the phallus of the king.

Like this the Eros consciousness can observe real acausal or indeterministic incarnation phenomena, whereus the Logos consciousness is (only) able to observe the causal world, in which a lot of energetic transformation processes happen, but no incarnation. Thus, the Logos ego observes the energetic processes in the incarnated world, which is -- and this is a difference to the Buddhist world view -- a reality and not maya, not an illusion. The Eros ego observes however the acausal or indeterminstic incarnation of a “new world”, of “new life”.

Like this we have two worlds. The one is Einstein's causal spacetime, which we can compare with Carl Jung's quaternarian Self. The former is the outer aspect, the latter the inner aspect of the background of the causal world. It is in fact the world of the Logos consciousness. Since it was Christianity, which is the root of Logos -- In the beginning there was the Logos (Gospel of John) -- we can also say, that this quaternarian world, the inner and the outer togther, are the crown of Christianity.

The other world is the world of the Seal of Solomon. It is the world behind quantum physics, and also behind what I call the singular acausal quantum leap, observable in the state of the Eros consciousness. Out of this world, the unus mundus, which is like the quantum physical wave function only potential, incarnations can happen, if such spontaneous processes are observed by a human individual (in the Eros state).

This is the world of Buddhism, I guess. This is why Buddhism calls the causal world maya. Buddhists try to reach this world of the unus mundus and they believe that when they have reached it, they have abandoned samsara.

The connection of Christianity and Buddhism is, as much as I see, the process I call Body-Centered Imagination, in which first the consciousness transforms from the Logos to the Eros, observes the incarnation processes in the Eros Self (in the Seal of Solomon) and like this incarnates a new causal world with new laws, the new quaternity.

Thus, in my model the co-creation aspect of the human individual ist stressed, whereus in the physical model of David Bohm (and also in the other ones mentioned in Talbot's article) the human individual does not exist as a co-creator. I guess that Bohm's deep depressions had to do with this aspect. He was not yet able to see that it is the human individual who is able to observe the psychophysical "collapses of the wave function", ie to observe the incarnations of the potential being of the "holographic universe", of the implicate order (as Bohm calls it) into the reality (actual being) of our space and time bound world, into the explicate order, the Einsteinian spacetime continuum.

Since the modern Logos ego represses the reality and the observability of the unus mundus, the potential world behind the causal world, specific “choosen” people are thrown into the Eros ego and like this are forced to observe the incarnations of the world soul – UFO encounter and abduction.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun May 07, 2006 4:37 pm
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Post A Few Questions
Quote:
To put it my way, I guess that the further step would be to go from wu wei observation (through for instance BCI) to the integration of the Eros dimension into a new way of living... a really new one!


Well put, Roger.

I have not tried Body Centered Consciousness, therefore I have yet to experience wu wei oberservation, though I would be grateful if you could send me to a post or link that explains it.

Again, I have a lot of reading to catch up on and I'm sorry if I slow down the topic conversations. However, I am beginning to appreciate the importance of sinking into the body and observing and what that really means.

Remo,

It's strange the 11 connection between so many members, and I especially like that your birthdate was given to you by Jung! This may sound silly, but my dog was born on the 1st of November (my first born child!) and my son on the 11th of January : 1/11 and 11/1. (They share many qualities as well... :D )

Though perhaps the 1 to 11 ratio alludes to a different relationship of the Tao. I've also had a dream not to long ago that involved this 11 and 1 but I never made a connection until now. Perhaps later I will include it, though the dream is of a more personal nature.

I have a question about what you said:


Quote:
Out of this world, the unus mundus, which is like the quantum physical wave function only potential, incarnations can happen, if such spontaneous processes are observed by a human individual (in the Eros state).


What kind of incarnations are you referring to, or perhaps I should say what are these incarnations?

And another question in reference to the layers of realities or worlds:

Did I understand you correctly: that there is the logos ego and its reality, behind this causal reality is the potential reality of quantum physics, and behind this acausal reality is another which you call the singular acausal quantum leap? Did I leave anything out?

Ryan

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Sun May 07, 2006 5:56 pm
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Post An Addition
This is a little side note to the 1/11 11/1 comment I made.

I actually knew my son was going to be born on the 11th of January several weeks before it happened. My father came to me in a dream (he passed away 8 months earlier) and he brought me a basket with things in it for my son. Based on the items in the basket, one of which was tiger striped like my dog, I intuited the birth date while awake thinking of the dream.

Sure enough, at almost midnight exactly on the border of the 10th and 11th my wife began going into labor. 4 hours later he was born. The doctors expected him to be born two weeks later!

I thought that was an interesting tidbit.

Ryan

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Sun May 07, 2006 6:44 pm
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Post Further explanation of my theory I
Ryan wrote:
Did I understand you correctly: that there is the logos ego and its reality, behind this causal reality is the potential reality of quantum physics, and behind this acausal reality is another which you call the singular acausal quantum leap? Did I leave anything out?


Not exactly. There are only two worlds, and the connection between the two is the singular acausal quantum leap. I try to explain this a little further.

The logos ego lives in a world of time and space and mass -- the three basic units of physics (second, kilogramm, meter). Already Jung and Pauli had seen that these units belong to the consciousness (more exactly: to the logos consciousness), that there must however be another world, in which these basic units do not exist anymore, ie. where we have timelessness, spacelessness and masslessness. It is a world outside physics.

This world is the world I call the Eros Self. It is the same as Gerardus Dorneus' unus mundus, ie a potential world out of which creations or incarnations into our four dimensional Einsteinian world (or perhaps also into Carl Jung's Self) are possible.

The incarnation process is described in Hermetic alchemy with the help of symbolic images: The king (logos realm) enters the womb of the queen (eros realm), dies and out of his sperm the new king is created.

This procreation and birth of the new king out of the queen -- comparable with Christ's virgin birth -- is acausal. Such a singular acausal quantum leap is always something new, ie it is not only an energy transformation as are all the processes in the Einsteinian world. Therefore, I speak of an increase of negentropy, ie an "increase of life". It is a higher vitalization of all the "objects" in the Einsteinian world (and also in Jung's Self).

What does this mean concretely? I guess, that first so-called inanimated objects of the world become more animated. This means that they obey new, different, "higher" physical laws. The empirical aspect of this higher vitalization of physical objects are the UFOs.

Further, there is a higher vitalization of the vegetative world, and of the world of animals and humans. The empirical aspect of the first are the crop circles. The second is represented by all these animal-like "ETs" in the encounters and abductions. They look like strange animals, but have a much higher intelligence. [Perhaps the background of the latter is the higher vitalization of Carl Jung's (logos) Self.] And there are humans, who are get also a higher vitalization, on the bodily as well as on the level of the mind. These are these human like "ETs", mostly without any mouth, ears, but with big empty eyes. As prefigured in Nicholas von Flue's vision (see http://www.psychovision.ch/rfr/radbilde.htm),

Image

their extraverted senses are destroyed, since they communicate with the help of the "sympathetic nervous system". This is why encounter and abduction victims always say that there is a telepathic communication (telepathy happens over the sympathetic nervous system).

These beings, entities seem to be the product of the incarnation out of the unus mundus, the psychophysical reality (W. Pauli), the implicate order (D. Bohm), and the creator is the world soul, the anima mundi, the feminine part of the divine couple. She is the ruler of the Eros Self, as the king or masculine god is the ruler of the Logos Self. For the incarnation process, the latter must however die and enter the womb of the goddess (expressed in the symbolism of Hermetic alchemy). Since only a consciousness which is similar to the Eros Self can observe it, also the logos ego must "die". This happens unconsciously in UFO encounter and abduction, and the vicitms enter the Eros ego. In BCI we try to enter this world consciously.

Remo

[to be continued]

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
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Mon May 08, 2006 9:09 am
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Post Further explanation of my theory II
[continuation]

The difference to the other models is the idea of the singular acausal quantum leap, only observable by individual humans. As you perhaps know, though quantum physics discovered in 1985 with the radioactive decay the quantum leap, it is not able to observe a single quantum leap.

Pauli brings in Atom and Archetype a good example: If we would observe only 10 radioactive atoms, we never know if one of them will decay during our lifetime. The decay is independent of the time variable, which means that it is acausal.

A counter example: When you take a piece of steel and press it, it will break after a specific time. If you repeat this with a piece of exactly the same dimensions, it will do the same. Also the third, the fourth, and so on.

Thus, one can create a mathematical law for the breaking of the steel piece. Or for the motion of the planets, as Kepler did. These bodies move therefore in a way we can describe by a mathematical law; they are causal.

It is however impossible to describe the singular radioactive decay in this way. No mathematical law for its description exists, since the decay is independent of the time variable. The decay is acausal, indeterministic. Since like this such a decay does not have a cause (ie the mathematical law), it is a real creation process. Something that is created without any cause, is a creation or an incarnation.

This is why the radioactive decay is an incarnation process. In it matter with a higher negentropy is created. This is my basic hypothesis. I root it in the so called exchange of attributes or twin process of Hermetic alchemy (see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ntropy#740 ), of the unio corporalis or coniunctio. During this process physical energy or matter (the “king”) enters the Eros Self or unus mundus, is there provided with higher negentropy and transforms back into physical energy or matter, however with higher negentropy. The prerequisite for such a twin process is the hypothesis that the energy term must be bipolar, yang and yin, and not only yang, as in physics and science.

Quantum physics has however done a big crime! Out of a collective power complex they began to redefine the singular acausal quantum leap and like this also the radioactive decay. They take millions and billions of radioactive atoms (as for example a piece of uranum) and observe the decays. Since there are so many atoms, there are also many decays which are observable during a reasonable time. Like this physics is able to construct a so-called statistical causal law of the decays of the billions of particles. This replacement of the unique acausal decay (not describable with the help of mathematics) by the statistical causal view (describable with the help of math) is the basic idea of quantum physics. Like this they got the power over radioactivity -- and also over the so-called strong interaction, the nuclear force, the energy liberated during the fission of the atom.

Like this the power complex of the scientists has however begun to accelerate the Hermetic process of the unio corporalis, and with it the incarnation process, in which matter and energy with higher negentropy, ie higher life, is created.

This is why it is nuclear science, which produces the "ETs" and the UFOs. I guess that the governments become slowly conscious about what they did and still do, and since they begin to see the consequences of it -- that they as well as all humans become the helpless and willess victims of this development -- they decided to be silent. Can you imagine a government, which tells us that it is helpless? That it cannot protect us against such ghostlike ennemies? Especially in the US after 9/11, where there are most encounters and abductions? Of course not. Thus they lie and lie and lie. But they cannot lie too long anymore, since the horrible things that will happen in the near future will lead to a world revolution. People would like to know what happens. At least it is my big hope ...

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon May 08, 2006 9:15 am
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Post Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm
Ryan

To come back to the title of the article you quote:

Quote:
Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm?


I would say that a union of Christianity and Buddhism would mean that we must revise both, the Buddhist and the Christian idea.

Buddhism talks of maya, since a Buddhist ist perhaps identical with what I call the Eros consciousness. It is an idea which is very new for me. I never have realized this before. This fact is perhaps the reason why so many Western scientists become Buddhists. Like this they are however, IMO, split between their scientific Logos ego and the Buddhist Eros world. This is not a union of the two.

On the other hand, Christianity is today identical with the logos principle. This is why it does not accept the incarnation and the reincarnation idea. As a logical consequence there must be a Heavenly realm we return only once and for eternity -- or into the eternal damnation.

I know however people who have visions, in which such horrible criminals like Hitler, Stalin, and so on come back to them and thank them that they deal in this way with the Beyond. It seems that with the help of such visions in the state of the eros consciousness it is possible to redeem the negative karma of these people. Like this perhaps some sort of an incarnation of a higher negentropy of ethics is possible. This would perhaps belong to what I called the higher negentropy of Carl Jung' Self.

The most important aspect of my theory -- as I said many times before: backed by empirical data (as for example your dream you told us in this UNUS MUNDUS forum; see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#921 ) -- is however that the logos and the eros come together in a conscious process in an individual human. If such a human abandons the conscious logos and enters the eros during the BCI, he/she has on a conscious level unified them, according to the archetypal Hermetic alchemical idea of the unio corporalis (see above). Like this the psychophysical/archetypal coniunctio, the twin process and the singular acausal quantum leap, become observable and like an incarnation into our space and time bound world happens (creatio continua). Like this "the little worm called man" becomes a co-creater of a new world, in which perhaps the ethical "negentropy" as well as the psychic and material are increased. Like this we help perhaps this world to survive and to become more peaceful.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon May 08, 2006 11:01 am
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Post 
Remo,

Thank you for helping me understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, understanding physics in a real way is very difficult for me because I don't have the backround. (I recall the Dali Lama commenting, that one may be 'nearer' to a subject based on past life incarnations; math for him was more difficult, because he has fewer past life experiences with it).

In your post 'Does Objective reality really exist?...'

Quote:
the logos and the eros come together in a conscious process in an individual human. If such a human abandons the conscious logos and enters the eros during the BCI, he/she has on a conscious level unified them, according to the archetypal Hermetic alchemical idea of the unio corporalis


From what I understand an individual enters the belly and observes what occurs there, not from the logos ego; because it was "abandoned", but rather with the eros ego- correct?

Yet I as I understand what you wrote above, it sounds like a different process to me, though I have the feeling you are describing the same process from your post: Further Explanation of my Theory I:

Quote:
The incarnation process is described in Hermetic alchemy with the help of symbolic images: The king (logos realm) enters the womb of the queen (eros realm), dies and out of his sperm the new king is created.


Here I understand the logos is not abandoned, but rather enters the womb/belly to die and be reborn in which a new king (union of logos and eros? or a new logos with the eros attributes as you expressed here?):

Quote:
# 11 is the symbol of the Tao (i.e., the unio corporalis, the coniunctio), since it is a combination of # 5 and # 6, the former being yang, masculine, the latter yin, feminine.

When yin and yang come together in the Tao (coniunctio in Hermetic alchemy), they exchange their attributes, ie 5 becomes feminine, 6 masculine. This is exactly the same process in Taoism as the so-called exchange of attributes in Hermetic alchemy. Thus we see that Taoism -- at least as it is described in Granets book -- has the same roots as Hermetic alchemy.
From:http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=238&highlight=tao#238

I will stop this post here, but I still want to add on this subject....

Ryan

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Mon May 08, 2006 1:36 pm
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Post 
ryan and remo-

here is a link to a Sci Am article that has a different take on dimensions and holograms/images projected on boundaries, Nov 2005

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID ... 414B7F0119


Mon May 08, 2006 8:29 pm
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Post The Hermetic alchemists observed the singular quantum leap
Ryan wrote:
Thank you for helping me understand what you are trying to say. Unfortunately, understanding physics in a real way is very difficult for me because I don't have the backround. (I recall the Dali Lama commenting, that one may be 'nearer' to a subject based on past life incarnations; math for him was more difficult, because he has fewer past life experiences with it).


You needn't understand physics, I guess. The only aspect one should understand is the idea of the singular acausal quantum leap. This idea is so difficult, since we all are used to think causally. Even our language is causally structured. The only language of the world that is not causally structured is, as much I know, the language of the Hopi (red) indians. Thus, they do for example not know a difference between past, present and future, since for them the now and eternity is the same. [In other words: They always observe only the spontaneous acausal quantum leap; what happens spontaneously in it, has happened in all eternity; see below.]

This has to do with what I call the singular acausal quantum leap. There are events -- I call them the incarnation events of the world soul -- in which spontaneously the negentropy of physical (and perhaps also of objective psychic energy according to Carl Jung) is increased. This singular event is not observable with the help of the scientific experiment, since the latter observes a specific object in a specific place during a specific time. Like this the "accidental" event is not observable.

In 1895 Becquerel discovered the radioactive decay. In it an acausal decay of the radioactive atoms happens. The decay of one radioactive atom is exactly what I described above: It is -- according to my hypothesis -- such a singular acausal quantum leap, in which the energy gets an increased negentropy.

Since humans are able to observe such quantum leaps in the physical outside, my second hypothesis is that also in them such observable quantum leaps happen. The observation of such (singular) inner (psychophysical) quantum leaps is what we do in BCI.

However, now comes the difference: Physics, because of the above mentioned will directed way of observation -- to observe the specific object (mass) in a specific place (space) and to a specific time -- is not able to observe the singular acausal decay. The reason is that the latter happens perhaps just after one second, perhaps only when your great-grandchild is 50 years old ... This is so since the radioactive decay is acausal, indeterministic, ie it happens spontaneously, exactly in the moment "the world soul wishes it."

The latter is the difficult argument.

Physics, however cheats! It goes on in observing in the usual (power possessed) way and takes some billions of radioactive decays. Like this it can calculate a likelihood distribution of the billions of decays. If you know a little of statistics, you know what a Gauss distribution is. The radioactive decay of the mass of particles is defined as such a Gauss distribution. There is some likelihood that so many of them decay after one second, some other likelihood that so many of them decay afte two, and so on. But, as I said, for the decay of one single atom one cannot create a mathematical equation.

The point is that like this physics has replaced the observation of the singular acausal radioactive decay by the so-called statistical causality. This concept is however a rape of nature. Our will has decided not to observe the singular acausal decay, but the mass of it, since with the help of the above mentioned experiment only the observation of the mass is possible.

Thus, we have to go back a step, back to Hermetic alchemy and its concept of the unio corporalis. In it the acausal event is described in symbolic/religious terms: In a spontaneous moment god and the goddess come together, and the acausal child is procreated. It is not a human procreation, since it is "accidential". This "accident" is a divine deed -- it is the moment in which the now and eternity come together (the kairos) -- and with the artificial creation of radioactivity we have stolen this prerogative of the gods!!! This is our modern sin, the modern problem of Prometheus.

Thus, we have to go back to the original way of doing it. This was the content of Hermetic alchemy. The alchemist just observed these accidential events. He did not have the experimental tool to observe the "mass decay", and he was yet humble enough to know that such a singular incarnation happens itself and only deo concedente, if God (or better the Goddess) likes it. He was not yet in the power complex and decided to replace the observation of the singular decay -- in which he did perhaps not succeed during his whole life -- by the observation of the mass during a time and in a place he decided by his conscious will.

Since we, in our power possession, do not observe like this anymore, the singular acausal quantum leap and with it the incarnation happens against our will. This is what happens in UFO encounter and abduction. People are forced into what I call the Eros consciousness and like this forced to observe the incarnations.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 5:42 am
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Post The observation work of a modern Hermetic alchemist
I know a man, an American physicist, who is forced to observe like this for six years now. He never knows when the "ghosts" out of the Beyond come -- mostly before he goes to sleep -- and then he has the duty to observe them. Especially to observe what they do. Sometimes they also talk, but the trouble is that with talking one gets very fast causal. One asks why, and so on. Thus this man had and still has to learn how to behave acausally -- a really difficult challenge.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 6:00 am
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Post Archetypal and individual death of the king
Ryan wrote:
From what I understand an individual enters the belly and observes what occurs there, not from the logos ego; because it was "abandoned", but rather with the eros ego- correct?

Yet I as I understand what you wrote above, it sounds like a different process to me, though I have the feeling you are describing the same process from your post: Further Explanation of my Theory I:

Quote:
The incarnation process is described in Hermetic alchemy with the help of symbolic images: The king (logos realm) enters the womb of the queen (eros realm), dies and out of his sperm the new king is created.


Here I understand the logos is not abandoned, but rather enters the womb/belly to die and be reborn in which a new king (union of logos and eros? or a new logos with the eros attributes as you expressed here?)


I guess the difficulty is the distinction of the two processes. There is first the archetypal Hermetic alchemical myth, which tells us that the king enters the womb of the queen and dies, ie dissolves into his atoms. Then his atoms become the seed or the sperm of the procreation. This is what I called above the singular acausal quantum leap observable in one's inside. It is a spontaneous change we can observe.

As a necessary prerequisit for the observation of this process, the consciousness must follow the same process first: The king of the logos consciousness must die, and like this the eros consciousness can be created. Concretely this means that we try to go down into our belly and stop thinking, since thinking is the main attribute of the logos ego.

I guess every Buddhist knows this process. It is the scaring away of the thoughts. Like this he looks for the emptiness of the consciousness. The difference is however that in BCI we scare away the thoughts but not the images (which come out of the gut brain). These images are the complement to the thoughts, ie the thoughts are the content of the logos ego, the images the contents of the eros ego. Buddhist meditation scares away both, we however accept the images as the singular acausal quantum leaps. The latter are not maya, but the seed or the sperm for the creation of the "new life".

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 6:15 am
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Post The ambiguity of the symbolic description
Quote:
# 11 is the symbol of the Tao (i.e., the unio corporalis, the coniunctio), since it is a combination of # 5 and # 6, the former being yang, masculine, the latter yin, feminine.

When yin and yang come together in the Tao (coniunctio in Hermetic alchemy), they exchange their attributes, ie 5 becomes feminine, 6 masculine. This is exactly the same process in Taoism as the so-called exchange of attributes in Hermetic alchemy. Thus we see that Taoism -- at least as it is described in Granets book -- has the same roots as Hermetic alchemy.
From:http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=238&highlight=tao#238

This is a different explanation of the unio corporalis. In it the important aspect is the exchange of attributes, and not the death of the king, of the yang. But, of course, when yang transforms into yin, this means the same as the death of yang. Here however, also yin dies, since it transforms into yang. This is not contained in the other version of the process. But a birth is always also some sort of a death of the mother, insofar as the life in her womb is not there anymore.

These processes are described in a symbolic language, since neither the Hermetic alchemists nor the Taoists were really able to formulate all this in a rational language. Only the epistemological insights of quantum physics, especially of the Kopenhagen interpretation and the great epistemological insights of Wolfgang Pauli have given me the means to formulate all this in a scientific language. But even in this language it is very difficult to define non-ambiguous terms and processes.

About this difficulty I have written in http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... _e.htm#471

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 6:27 am
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Post Re: The ambiguity of the symbolic description
Remo Roth wrote:

These processes are described in a symbolic language, since neither the Hermetic alchemists nor the Taoists were really able to formulate all this in a rational language. Only the epistemological insights of quantum physics, especially of the Kopenhagen interpretation and the great epistemological insights of Wolfgang Pauli have given me the means to formulate all this in a scientific language. But even in this language it is very difficult to define non-ambiguous terms and processes.

About this difficulty I have written in http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... _e.htm#471

Remo


Yes to my mind the Logos (word) expression that is the closest to what appears in the Eros imagery is the poetic or the prophetic language.

And we all know how far these languages are from a scientific expression.

It gives us an idea of the difficulties Remo is coping with and of the immense worth of his efforts.

Sorry for your modesty Remo, but I had to say it.

Roger

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THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue May 09, 2006 6:51 am
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Post Re: The ambiguity of the symbolic description
Roger Faglin wrote:
Yes to my mind the Logos (word) expression that is the closest to what appears in the Eros imagery is the poetic or the prophetic language.

And we all know how far these languages are from a scientific expression.

It gives us an idea of the difficulties Remo is coping with and of the immense worth of his efforts.


Yes, you are right, Roger, about the difficulties. This is why I always tend to describe the "matter" and processes of the psychophysical realm on different levels: in a rational language, but also in the language of Hermetic alchemy. Like this the "as if" remains preserved.

Further, we always know on which archetype our rational argumentation is based. If Neoplatonic science would also do this, they would see that their prejudice is that they always try to transform evil matter into the good spirit, to liberate the psyche = energy out of evil matter and unify it with the good spirit in the Heavens, as in Neoplatonic alchemy.

Quote:
Sorry for your modesty Remo, but I had to say it.


Life forced me to develop some amount of modesty ...

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 9:33 am
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Post Kudos!
Remo,

I have to second Roger's compliment:

Quote:
It gives us an idea of the difficulties Remo is coping with and of the immense worth of his efforts.


Your efforts to explain your views have helped me immensely with my dreams and what I felt to be the next step I have to take in my own life.

Jung has given me so much, but as of late I have felt stuck and I couldn't see where the process was leading, nor what to do about it. Your work has opened up doors, which first and foremost resonate within me. And as you clarify and the more I read, little by little it is beginning to make sense. Thank you.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue May 09, 2006 11:01 am
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Post Re: Kudos!
Ryan wrote:
Jung has given me so much, but as of late I have felt stuck and I couldn't see where the process was leading, nor what to do about it. Your work has opened up doors, which first and foremost resonate within me. And as you clarify and the more I read, little by little it is beginning to make sense. Thank you.


Thank you, Ryan. I guess our forum is a "giving and taking" ("Geben und Nehmen" in German). I feel that it was your dream -- the world clock dream -- which gave me the energy to explain my thoughts in the forum. Never before I was able to explain all this in such short posts. It seems that it becomes more and more clear in my head (and heart).

We feel the same roots, circumambulate the same archetype, the archetype of the 21st century: the unio corporalis or Holy Wedding. The symbol for this challenge is the transition from the pisces symbol to the Tai Gi in your dream. This symbol is the center of the world clock, ie the center of our challenge!

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 09, 2006 11:45 am
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