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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 New House Dreams and Radioactivity, Pauli's Piano Lesson 
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Roger Faglin wrote:
further, I guess there is some aspect to what you dream says. This aspect is linked to the fact that there are people who consciously 'deal' with that process in deep Eros consciousness. I cannot precise my intuition at the moment but I guess this bring something more... a sort of acceleration or I don't know what...


Yes, what I describe above as the observation of the twin process is the same as the inner quantum leap. This would mean that people who observe such twin processes help nature and the universe in the acausal process of incarnation. Further, the latter is nonlocal, ie if it happens in one human being it has happened everywhere.

The so-called tikkun of Isaak Luria's cabala. See my quote in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#827

The question is, if this process is together with a reincarnation of the Dead. If we assume that they are a "part" of the unus mundus (since they returned in death into it), such an idea is nothing less than natural. In the process of the incarnation in nature, in which the potentiality of the unus mundus is incarnated, also the deceased come back into our world. The question is however if they do this into the soul of specific humans (as for example Gregory's) or as real persons. I guess for the moment that the first idea is right. However, if they incarnate in the soul of a human being, aren't they also reincarnated as persons (at least as a part of the human being concerned)? We could then speculate that these deceased become a part of a living person -- not as a destructive death ghost (revenant), but as a constructive part.

However, here a speculative interpretation begins. The only proof would be the feelings and sensations of the humans concerned.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:16 am
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Post The Return of the Dead and the Pauli effect
Already in 2002 I wrote in http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/jungneo ... p4.htm#339 the following:

Quote:
At the end of the letter [to Fierz of Oct 1953], Pauli briefly looks back to the 17th century, to the beginning of natural science with Galilei and Kepler, and mentions that this was the time in which the acausal principle disappeared into the unconscious. As we can see in the earlier letter [1289] to Fierz (of Oct. 13, 1951) [Pauli, 1996, p. 385-9], it was the principle of the medieval world soul (anima mundi) that was repressed, when mathematics entered natural philosophy (see Wolfgang Pauli und die Wiederkehr der Weltseele).
This acausal principle of the anima mundi was of extreme importance for Pauli. He writes (in [1646]) that it is

Quote:
„dasjenige ..., was sich der geistigen, gesetzmässigen (= ‘lichten’) Ordnung zunächst entzieht. Das ist das Böse im Ethischen (Problem der Integration des Bösen in die Gottheit, etc.), das Akausale in der Naturphilosophie. [Pauli, 1999, p. 283]


English translation:

Quote:
„the one that withdraws an intellectual order of laws. It is the evil in ethics (the problem of the integration of evil into the godhead, etc.), the acausal in natural philosophy.“ [Pauli, 1999, p. 283; translation mine]


The Fludd/flood synchronicity (see Chapter 2 [ http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/pauli_f ... ync.htm#a1 ) has shown us, that science should - on a higher level - return to the findings of Robert Fludd. We can guess now, that this recourse must have something to do with a return of the world soul in our times.

Pauli felt this need. After the remark that as of yet we do not know if this acausal principle is just a „blind chance“ without any teleological meaning, as in quantum physics, he brings this dark principle together with parapsychology and biology. And in the above-mentioned letter [1289] of October 13th, 1951 to Fierz we see, that he was convinced that it was the psychokinetic Pauli effect, which showed the return of the magic aspect of the world soul. There he writes:

Quote:
„Nun scheinen wir aber zu beginnen darunter zu leiden, dass man im 17. Jahrhundert zu weit gegangen ist (vgl. meine Keplerarbeit) und von damals her kommen die ‚revenues’, die mich nachts, und zuweilen auch tags, verfolgen...“ [Pauli, 1996, p. 387]


English translation:

Quote:
“But now we begin to suffer under the fact that one went too far in the 17th century (cp. my Kepler essay), and of that time come the ‘revenues’ [a parapsychological expression for a deceased’s return; RFR] that pursue me in the night, and sometimes also during the day…” [Pauli, 1996, p. 387; translation mine]


The very interesting aspect is here that Pauli combines the evil with acausal principle on the one hand, and the return of the world soul respectively the return of the deceased with the parapsychological Pauli effect. He is however not yet able to combine the "evil acausal principle" with the revenues as a result of the return of the world soul.

It is this combination I call today the twin process of Hermetic alchemy, the incarnation process of the coniunctio, which is also symbolized in the above synchronicity: #654 = 6 > 5 > 4 .

And now a very incredible speculative conclusion comes: I know people in whose visions very evil persons deceased some days ago return to them. They always look as if they have been redeemed (and also talk like this). It seems thus that these horrible people and with them the negative karma of the world could be redeemed, if these specific visionaries accept that in an acausal process these condemned (damned?) can come back to them.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:44 am, edited 4 times in total.



Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:13 am
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Quote:
Yes, what I describe above as the observation of the twin process is the same as the inner quantum leap. This would mean that people who observe such twin processes help nature and the universe in the acausal process of incarnation. Further, the latter is nonlocal, ie if it happens in one human being it has happened everywhere.

The so-called tikkun of Isaak Luria's cabala. See my quote in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#827


Yes. but then human beings are part of nature also, though maybe a very special part. What I mean is here and now people 'who observe such twin processes' at the present stage of consciousness bring something more that was available before. Thus my intuition of an acceleration of some sort. What I mean is that the very critical situation we are in nowadays is also the vector of some kind of solution 'we' seem to be hinting at, as if the acausilty was building up upon itself. Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


Quote:
The question is, if this process is together with a reincarnation of the Dead. If we assume that they are a "part" of the unus mundus (since they returned in death into it), such an idea is nothing less than natural. In the process of the incarnation in nature, in which the potentiality of the unus mundus is incarnated, also the deceased come back into our world. The question is however if they do this into the soul of specific humans (as for example Gregory's) or as real persons. I guess for the moment that the first idea is right. However, if they incarnate in the soul of a human being, aren't they also reincarnated as persons (at least as a part of the human being concerned)? We could then speculate that these deceased become a part of a living person -- not as a destructive death ghost (revenant), but as a constructive part.

However, here a speculative interpretation begins. The only proof would be the feelings and sensations of the humans concerned.

Remo


This makes me think of the dream of the helping dead. The dreamer seems to have a kind of abilty to go there and back as if he had some parts of him enabling the swaying movement.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:20 am
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Roger Faglin wrote:
Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


I guess this is a bit too much causal thinking. If an inner quantum leap has happened in one human, it has happened everywhere. This is what I call the psychophysical nonlocality. It is possible since the "space" of the unus mundus does not have any measure in the physical meaning. One point is the same as the whole infinity of the universe.

Quote:
This makes me think of the dream of the helping dead. The dreamer seems to have a kind of abilty to go there and back as if he had some parts of him enabling the swaying movement.


I cannot find this dream. Can you give us the link?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:57 am
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Post Re: The Return of the Dead and the Pauli effect
Remo Roth wrote:
And now a very incredible speculative conclusion comes: I know people in whose visions very evil persons deceased some days ago return to them. They always look as if they have been redeemed (and also talk like this). It seems thus that these horrible people and with them the negative karma of the world could be redeemed, if these specific visionaries accept that in an acausal process these condemned (damned?) can come back to them.

Remo


Interesting.

What would that means in sprit-psyche terms.

These evil people suffer. I guess that their individuation process was completely wrecked when they were alive. (You must remember that for me the 'individuation process' is much more than spirit-psyche, I tend to consider that it leads to the healer path and maybe further.)
It means then then they are overloaded with some sort of inner entropy that must be very destructive on the other side. This is an other occurence belonging to same paradigm as the artificial atomic radiation and its UFO phenomena relations.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:05 am
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Remo Roth wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:
Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


I guess this is a bit too much causal thinking. If an inner quantum leap has happened in one human, it has happened everywhere. This is what I call the psychophysical nonlocality. It is possible since the "space" of the unus mundus does not have any measure in the physical meaning. One point is the same as the whole infinity of the universe.


Argh! I cannot find the bloody words!
Maybe what I feel to be stressed is that once someone has 'activated' the inner atomic plant then the 'production' accelerates...
Argh! again...

Remo Roth wrote:
Quote:
This makes me think of the dream of the helping dead. The dreamer seems to have a kind of abilty to go there and back as if he had some parts of him enabling the swaying movement.


I cannot find this dream. Can you give us the link?

Remo


This is funny! This topic I opened has been read 589 times, but there are only 19 replies, here's the link: http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?t=128

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:13 am
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Remo Roth wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:
Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


I guess this is a bit too much causal thinking. If an inner quantum leap has happened in one human, it has happened everywhere. This is what I call the psychophysical nonlocality. It is possible since the "space" of the unus mundus does not have any measure in the physical meaning. One point is the same as the whole infinity of the universe.

Remo


Remo,

Well, the more I read your reply the less I see the 'causal thinking' in what I have written. I do not mean that 'Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps' causaly.

A crazy remark:
If inner observation helps inner quantum leaps (inner collapse of the wave function) maybe then the 'wave function' simply 'loves' to be collapsed. You see it seems to be the most constructive way to enter our world.

Sorry that was crazy... But this theory of yours has to be crazy...

(http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=1692#1692)

But is it really so crazy?

Image

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:48 am
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Post Niels Bohr and the New House = unus mundus
Let us now summarize the first part of the interpretation of the first house dream: "Bohr" helped Pauli to see that physics and depth psychology are complementary. Like this they two cannot, parallel to the situation of the particle and the wave view in physics, be unified. They are contradictory but both are necessary for a general description (= complementarity).

With the realization of this limitation, "Bohr" opens our eyes for the real solution of the problem: A new psychophysical theory must combine physical, parapsychological and biological ideas on a deeper level.

This is why it is "Niels Bohr" who makes the "very official announcement" about the new house to Pauli. The insight that it is not an integration of depth psychology into physics which will lead further, ie the symbol "Bohr", is the necessary precondition for the gift of the new house, the latter being the "double Trinity" of the unus mundus, the lapis, the philosophical gold and their "children", the red tincture, the infans solaris and the quintessence.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Roger Faglin wrote:
Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


The trouble is that our language is completely causal. As much as I see, the first sentence is a causal statement, and also "diffusing" is a causal expression.

As long as we think in the categories of an extended space we are in the danger of using causal formulations. Thus we would need a new language or always emphasize that we do not use the words in a causal manner. Carl Jung used the term "mit sich bringen", in English perhaps "involve", "implicate."

The only language I know which is not causal is the language of the Hopis. Therefore they neither have a past, a present and a future. Everything is always in the Here and Now. What a great philosophy of life!

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:33 am
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Post Re: Inner quantum leap
Remo Roth wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:
Inner quantum leaps seems to bring more inner quantum leaps. The inner radiation seems to be activated and diffusing.


The trouble is that our language is completely causal. As much as I see, the first sentence is a causal statement, and also "diffusing" is a causal expression.

As long as we think in the categories of an extended space we are in the danger of using causal formulations. Thus we would need a new language or always emphasize that we do not use the words in a causal manner. Carl Jung used the term "mit sich bringen", in English perhaps "involve", "implicate."

The only language I know which is not causal is the language of the Hopis. Therefore they neither have a past, a present and a future. Everything is always in the Here and Now. What a great philosophy of life!

Remo


How right, Remo! (especially in a foreign language)

Ok, let's define a code then. I tend to use more and more words between ' '. This is the sign of some distance with causal thinking.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:42 am
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Post Re: My Dream of the biological evolution
Remo Roth wrote:
Spirit-psyche transforms into matter-psyche with potentially higher negentropy, and when observed by a human being the matter-psyche with potentially higher negentropy transforms back into spirit-psyche with incarnated higher negentropy. The latter means a new causal world (Einsteinian spacetime), however with completely new causal laws of nature.



This reminds me of an old vision (3 or 4 years ago): it was a dark moon/sun scenery. I was looking at the sky at a particularly bright star. I was close to a deep hole into the earth. I looked into it and saw very far away some fiery orange magmatic substance. Then an inner voice said: 'you are the star, and you are the deep lava and you are also the bridge between the two'.


It seems that the vision insisted on the value of human beings acting as a bridge. We know now, due to your work, that the wu wei observation of inner images/sensations is that sort of brigde or opening into the dam as in Gregory's vision (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=1266#1266).

But I guess there is more to it. Human being is the very 'place' where the twin process can happen at its 'best'.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:09 am
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Post The Gnosis of Simon Magus and the Seal of Solomon
I'd like to go on with the further interpretation of Pauli's new house dream. First a remark. In re-interpreting the dream I do of course not criticize Pauli. However, I guess that I have found new terms for new aspects of the unus mundus. Thus, I try to interpret the dream with the help of this new background. The most important aspect of this re-interpretation is the above first part: "Bohr" means "complementarity" between physics and depth psychology, therefore we need a third level, the psychophysical (which seems to surmounts the complementarity). Like this the psychophysical level is defined much more clearly than Pauli and Jung did.

One of the Popes calls itself John. Pauli associates "the Evangelist and hence Gnosis." Gnosis has been looking for the subtle body and was therefore (unconsciously) related to what I call matter-psyche and the unus mundus, the Eros Self, respectively its energetic aspect, the world soul. In my interpretation above I spontaneously entered the Seal of Solomon, which was a little intuitive. But now we see that I was right, since the Christian Gnosis, especially the one of Simon Magus, was based on the double three. I have described this in a German article Die Gnosis des Simon Magus, http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/simmagus.htm . Simon defines the divine root of the universe and of man, of the macrocosm and of the microcosm as a creative fire, a potential root of the cosmos. This creative fire develops now on the spiritual level into God the Father, God the Mother, and the hermaphroditic Son/Daughter. They are equivalent – like this we see that the Gnostics spoke a symbolic language – to the world spirit, the world soul and the world body, and they are mirrored in man. Thus also man possesses spirit, soul and body. This is the first Gnostic double trinity.

The second double trinity ist the one in nature:

1. Heaven and Earth
2. Sun and Moon
3. Air and Water


which are however all contained in the potential divine fire.

If we define the anahata chakra as the divine fire of love and eros, we see that these structures become equivalent to the seven chakras of Tantrism. Also there in some interpretations the three lower chakras and the three upper ones are contained in the heart chakra. This is why the latter contains the Seal of Solomon:

Image

Thus again a double trinity, and we see that the background of the world, of man and even of the gods is the Seal of Solomon (which is also the structure of the Sufi’s earth Hurqalja). “Pope John” and the threeness of the popes mean therefore in fact the anti-trinity, the feminine trinity, the world soul in its narrower meaning (ie the triangle pointing downwards).

The dream would therefore like to show Pauli that he should integrate the world soul. Up until his end he was however not able to consciously replace Carl Jung's Anima and the quaternity by the "trinitarian" anima mundi and the Seal of Solomon though he had many dreams and visions about the latter.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:21 am
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Post The New House, the Magical Transformation and the Coniunctio
As I have already mentioned in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#1705 , Pauli associates the new house also with the Catholic mass. He writes:

Quote:
"The rites of the Catholic Church have preserved several experiences of a 'magical' nature that may be of value in parapsychological terms and that arous my interest. I am thinking, for example, of the Sacrifice [Messopfer] of the Mass, an 'experiment' that involves the transformation of the person experimenting. My dreams actually make no basic distinction between 'laboratory' and 'church' [here Pauli refers to a later dream in which the house is in fact a church] ..., so the house could be both. The pair of opposites in this dream is natural science (physics) - Catholic tradition [RFR: the 'magic' mass]. The new house is always the place where a union of pairs of opposites takes place, a coniunctio."


The new house = church has to do with magics. In a modern terminology we can translate the transformation of the host in the mass into the body of Christ as a symbolic creation of the subtle body. Thus, the parapsychology Pauli speaks of has to do with the creation of the subtle body. Further this procedure serves the coniunctio, in Pauli's special case the union of physics with magics (mass) -- exactly what he proposes in the above mentioned letter to Marie-Louise von Franz (see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#1698 ) as the solution of the psychophysical problem, the creation of an "expanded physics" containing parapsychology and (evolutionary) biology as well [Remember my dream above, in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#1702 ].

Thus, there is no doubt anymore that the new house is the place where the Hermetic alchemical (second) coniunctio in the intermediary realm between spirit and matter takes place. Further the coniunctio is related to a religious myth as well as to magics. We can therefore conclude that it is the process I describe as the twin process, the transformation of spirit-psyche into matter-psyche and the retransformation of the latter into spirit-psyche with increased negentropy.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:03 pm
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Post Seal of Solomon, Individuation and Anti-Semitism
Today I found by chance a remark of Pauli, which backs my above thoughts concering the anti-Trinity and the Seal of Solomon. In August 1950 Pauli wrote to Aniela Jaffé (a Jew):

Quote:
"It is my impression that the 'lower triad' [Pauli writes alle expressions in apostrophes which cannot be defined in a natural scientific way] belongs to this karma and that it must emerge in everyone, who walks on the individuation path, since this archetype [the lower triad] points to a development interrupted by Christianity. I guess further that the complex phenomenon of anti-Semitism ... is linked to the psychic history of the lower triad. I am thinking especially at the expulsion of the Jews in Spain at the end of the 15th century. In those days everything that emerged out of the unconscious that was not assimilated by Christianity [RFR: the anti-Trinity!] was projected onto the Jews (cf Ahashver)."[my translation; RFR]


Already many times earlier I guessed that the latent anti-Semitism of many Jungians has to do with this fact. As real "quaternarians" (3+1; Trinity + Anima; an expression of Pauli) they cannot accept the anima mundi, Her acausal, thus "evil" aspect, and like this project it. Deirdre Bair writes in her Jung Biography that for example Toni Wolff was obviously anti-Semitic (as was the whole Bourgois Zurich; my comment).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:23 pm
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Post The absent corporeal sensation in Jung and Pauli
There are yet two more motifs in Pauli's new house dream: The first is "the Sacrifice of the Mass, an 'experiment' that involves the transformation of the person experimenting", the second the remark that Pauli's wife is absent.

The first aspect has to do with a problem Pauli dealt with very intensely, namely the so-called "detached observer" of physics. Though the latter sacrifices knowledge (according to the Heisenberg uncertainty relation) he does not sacrifice himself! He stays outside of nature observed by him, and is therefore not a participant with the creation acts in nature. This problem is connected to the second, the absence of Pauli's wife, and I guess I will open a new thread with the discussion of the former problem (which will perhaps also become more or less some sort of a blog).

The other motif, the absence of Pauli's wife I'm discussing here. Pauli writes:

Quote:
"The absence of my wife … is a motif that often turns up in my dreams. I should like to propose an interpretation on a subjective level, for the simple reason that, as far as I can judge myself, it seems to correspond th reality. My wife is a sensation type, whereas with me the function du reel [the sensation; RFR] is the inferior function. But this has the characteristic of not being present when it is needed, of remaining behind or disappearing into the unconscious, etc., as my wife often does in my dreams. And this inferior function would need to work better in the new outside world. And in fact, in real life I leave all that to my wife to a large extent.”


As I mentioned above, the end of the dream respectively this absence of the inferior sensation is negative. Further we see that Pauli dreamt many times exactly of this absence or loss.

I’m talking here of a principle problem not only of Pauli, but of Carl Jung’s depth psychology. As we can see in his book Psychological Types and as I have mentioned in another place ( http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... +jung#1190 ) in this forum Carl Jung is not able to relate the sensation onto the body. The extraverted as well as the introverted sensation is completely psychic (in the meaning of psychological, not in the meaning of mediumistic – oh, why do English speaking people not distinguish between these two completely different meanings?). Though one should assume that at least the introverted sensation of Jung's typology has to do with the body, this is not the case. The extraverted as well as the introverted sensation are related to the outside (we can also say to the Central Nervous System) and only the attitude of the introverted and the extraverted sensation according to Jung is different: The extraverted sensation is fast, the introverted very slow.

In contrast to this I define the sensation related to the body (and to the subtle body). The extraverted body sensation (the Central Nervous System) sensates the physical body (for example a pain), the introverted sensation (the Vegetative Nervous System) however the subtle body. The principle of my Body-Centered Imagination consists in the task of transforming the extraverted perception into the introverted, the perception of the Central Nervous System into the perception of the Vegetative (sympathetic/parasympathetic) Nervous System. The latter is mostly a deeply corporeally experienced image or “inner movie.” It is the symbol created out of the symptom.

I am convinced today that this transformation process would have been the task of Pauli. As everyone knows who uses this method, in it the “detatched observer” becomes really a participant.

Remo

PS: I guess that our new member Amy Sova's way of dealing with nature is exactly this necessary transformation of the detached observer into the participant of the creation processes in nature. More later and in another thread.

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:24 am
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Post Interpretation of Pauli's New House Dream:
I'm trying now a complete interpretation of Wolfgang Pauli's new house dream:

The "new house" is a "container" of a new spacetime concept beyond the physical spacetime. In it space is equal to a pointspace/allspace (point = infinity) and time is eternal. This container contains a new sort of energy I call matter-psyche, symbolized by the triangle pointed downwards. This container exists in an intermediary world between spirit and psyche. In it happens the Hermetic alchemical coniunctio with its exchange of attributes and the "radiation", following the point A hypothesis of Jung of 1928: When something happens in one individual, it has happened everywhere. I call this exchange of attributes the twin process or the "inner quantum leap" (also psychophysical radioactive decay), in which the negentropy = life essence is increased.

This twin process is insofar a union of "physics" with "magics" as the body transforms into the subtle body, the physical energy into matter-psyche (parapsychological energy) with potential negentropy. In the second process this potential life essence transforms into new physical (bodily) energy with realized higher negentropy, higher life essence. This happens however only in the case of a conscious observation.

The conscious observation of this process is equivalent to the observation of the transformation of bodily matter into subtle body. It is possible with the help of a concentration on the introverted corporeal sensation. In it the symptom is transformed into a symbol, an inner image which is itself the subtle body aspect.

Such processes happen spontaneously, are however much more likely in the case of a disease (be it of the personal body or of the body of the world and the universe). Their observation could help in healing the personal body as well as in the healing of the world.

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:03 pm
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Post The consciousness-transcendent realm beyond concepts
I think that Pauli's intuition that follows in his description and interpretation of the new house dream backs my interpretation. Further, his intuitive thought shows how close Pauli was to this interpretation on the psychophysical level. He did however not know what I call today the Eros ego on the one hand, and the method of Body-Centered Imagination on the other. He writes:

Quote:
"Generally speaking, I attach fundamental importance to the appearance of women in the dreams of physicists. They represent an inner reality that seems to defy expression in any sort of conceptual language. In relation to masculine consciousness [Logos ego; RFR], they also seem to symbolize the consciousness-transcendent unity beyond the pairs of opposites."


Here Pauli surely speaks also of the Chinese woman that he dreamt of so many times. He yet sees that she represents the psychophysical reality (unus mundus) beyond the split into psyche and matter, into inner and outer world. However, and this is an incredibly important aspect of Pauli's statement, this reality "defies expression in any sort of conceptual language."

Perhaps only the language of the Hopis, the only one which is not causal, can express this world. I think however that it was necessary to introduce some concepts, at least for the Logos ego, since only like this the latter is able to transform into this other world, the Eros ego which is contained in the Eros Self.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:40 pm
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Post 
Thanks remo !

Jung thought his personal myth was the collective unconscious.

Edinger interprets this as the creation of consciousness.

It seems to me that Pauli's myth was the creation of the subtle body/embodied consciousness.


Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:11 pm
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Post 
Yes, I echo Tom's post above - thanks Remo. A very clear conception of Pauli's process. It helps so much to hear it 'explained' in such a way. We do need 'the words' to spread the message (otherwise it would be by telepathy?), so the logos ego IS still pertinent to/for our world. It can be used 'for the good'. As long as personal integrity is high, the logos ego is remarkable tool it seems. Luckily we know the truth - it is just that - a 'tool' - and we watch ourselves to see that we use it well...



Kristin

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Post thoughts regarding the repressed female
I just want to add something in relation to Remo's discussion of Pauli, and the physicists' pondering of his feelings regarding his wife who represented for him sensation [or Eros ego, of which Pauli knew nothing about at the time - this concept has been Remos' valuable contribution ], an attribute which in him had been repressed, if I am correct in thinking. What the 'absence' of Paulis' wife meant for him in his voyage of discovery is obviously of prime importance for all of us in our personal processes.

Historians studying Gnosticism (a blanket term, but we have no other to describe the time of pre-Christian and the very early so-called 'Christian' spiritual teachings), and the Gnostic Christ and his intimate association with Mary the Magdalene, have been uncovering some of the precepts behind the 'mystery' school which the Magdalene had been trained in before coming into an early Essene lifestyle. It seems that the mystery school tradition Mary had been trained in contained the teachings of the 'subtle body' concept which we speak of here on the forum, that of the creation of the personal 'merkaba' (which is associated with the interlocking triangles of the Seal of Solomon, the chariot of Ezekiel ).

In those times it was understood that the route to the development of the 'subtle' body was more easily navigated by women, and that certain learned women would therefore take on the role as guides for men who wished to enter the 'mysteries'. Some call this subtle body teaching 'the science of ascension', and it came from the Egyptians, probably predating their culture as well. Initially, all over the ancient world, certain women performed in the role of priestesses and if any men were genuinely called to initiation in this sacred 'feminine' practice the priestesses would intitiate these men into the 'mysteries'. Later this role was taken away from women and women who carried on this 'eros' tradition were branded as 'dangerous' and thus mariginalized (and even murdered). Beginning in the west with the conquest of the Romans the denigration of such female roles began, until even the venerable Oracle at Delphi and the Eleusian mystery cycle practices were appropriated by the patriarchy for their own ends. At Delphi, for instance, the Oracle was still a female 'priestess' standing in the role of 'cipher' between worlds, however, whatever her gestures or reactions in regard to the question the seeker had asked of the Oracle, she was no longer trusted as the 'source' of the information which arose. Whatever her experiences in relation with 'the Beyond', the Oracle, so-called, and the information she had to impart was now secondarily 'interpreted' by a group of male priests. Thus was trust in the 'voice' of the female superceded by LOGOS ego - the word - and the acausal 'understanding' in relation to nature and the World Soul superceded by the linearity of 'causal' rule.

To finalize my point, according to some, Mary Magdalene became the actual teacher of Jesus Christ in the ways of the subtle body, in the ways of 'acausality'. She was not merely one of his disciples but his very equal, his soror mystica in the 'work'. Mary Magdalene thus represents the female trinity of the Seal, where Jesus is the other half. The coninuctio was constellated in their relationship (whether they were, in fact, mythical/archetypal representatives of this all-important process or actual human beings it really doesn't matter) as symbolic of the process that must take place in order that we maintain an equanimous relationship with the body of our earth as well as with the 'Beyond' (the two of which are intimately related...), it now seems to me.

Much of the truth all of this was, of course, edited out of the Bible. The teachings that have come down to us through 'the book' have thus been truncated and subverted. However, we are thankfully discovering, through Gnostic scrolls and other emerging ancient texts, more and more every day about the truth of the so-called 'mystery' teachings (in both the western world and elsewhere around the globe). This emerging information presents for humankind a possible new revolution/evolution, both spiritual and physical. The body is revealed more and more as the real 'location' for the work, and to my mind that is what the "Grail" imagery, pervasively around us today and ridiculously over-inflated by the media ( we will get over this stage, and hopefully in the meantime all the hype has woken some people up to the fact that 'something else' is actually going on 'in here' , in our bodies (grails!) - if yet only a very few, that is still good)... the very few can always make a difference (and maybe some of those few will find their way also to the unus mundus forum, and find some more real food for 'thought'...)


Best,
Kristin

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Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:55 pm
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Post Pauli's myth
Tom wrote:
Jung thought his personal myth was the collective unconscious.


Yes. Using my neutral terminology I would say that his myth was to find the collective spirit-psyche (the Logos Self), out of which personal spirit-psyche (the Logos ego) develops.

Quote:
Edinger interprets this as the creation of consciousness.


The creation of Logos ego I would say. I must however say that I was never able to read Edinger, since for me he seemed to be too much identified with Neoplatonism.

Quote:
It seems to me that Pauli's myth was the creation of the subtle body/embodied consciousness.


In my neutral language I would say that his myth was the observation of the twin process, the exchange of attributes belonging to the Hermetic alchemical, the second coniunctio I describe in my terms in chapter 4 of The Holy Wedding, http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... ntents.htm . In it spirit-psyche transforms into matter-psyche with potentially increased negentropy ("higher life"; increase of subtle body), and in the parallel process this potentiality re-transforms into spirit-psyche, however with a realized higher negentropy (realized higher subtle body).

This process is observable in the UFO/"ET"/crop circle events. In the UFO phenomenon it is physical energy that gets increased negentropy, ie "new life", ie UFOs are ruled by new, higher natural laws.

In the "ETs" it seems that the inner spirit-psyche, the "Logos Self energy" gets increased negentropy. This is why these "visitors from the Beyond" know much more than we do. Further they show perhaps a change in the DNA (see below). This change is only potential since the "victims" do not consciously change from Logos to Eros but are suddenly thrown into the "Eros observation state."

In the crop circles it is "animated matter" that gets an increased negentropy. I do however not distinguish between animated an inanimated matter, since the latter is only "less vitalized" than the former. The synchronicity phenomenon shows us that also "inanimated" matter is animated.

Then, there seems also to happen a process in men (and animals?). I know visions and dreams of people, in which the DNA is further developed, ie the "life essence" of humans (and animals) is increased.

Perhaps we can formulate the process in a general language in the way that all matter gets a higher negentropy. Like this so-called inanimated matter becomes more animated, animated matter gets more "meaning" (crop circles) and the highest form of life, animals and humans, get new "life essence". Perhaps the latter will also be visible in new shapes of their bodies.

I guess that I had to go on "dreaming Pauli's myth." This would explain why my dreams and visions of the last 20 or even 30 years are so similar to his.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:57 am
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Post Re: Pauli's myth
Remo Roth wrote:
I must however say that I was never able to read Edinger, since for me he seemed to be too much identified with Neoplatonism.

Remo


Yes, you are right. Some parts of what I read made me feel very ill at ease.
His cyclic view of the relation between [Logos]ego and [Logos]Self is completely astray.

Roger

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THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:40 am
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Post 
remo-

I certainly appreciate your courage in continung the dreaming of Pauli's myth. You are now getting to he essence of observation/the subjectivity of the observer,it seems.

How fundamental is image/imagination as compared to logos/the word ? How vision dependent as opposed to other "senses" ? How primary is image ?

How does constructing meaning relate to the observation of the twin processes ? To what degree is meaning an abstraction divorced from more primary experience ?

Maybe the questions have to be better stated before there are answers. Thanks again.

kristen-

There was a good recent summary of what we "know" about Mary M. on npr/fresh air/terry gross with Bart Ehrman discussing his latest scholarly book PETER PAUL AND MARY MAGDELENE.

IN THE ?BIBLE/?APOCRYPHA, Jesus said that women could become enlightened by becoming men first. women were thought of in general (less so now?) as a different and inferior species.It's in the interview here somewhere:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5364195

P.S.

I am just remembering that Simon Magus was the opponent of Peter. Peter didn't care much for Mary M. either.


Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:20 pm
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Tom wrote:
remo-

I certainly appreciate your courage in continung the dreaming of Pauli's myth. You are now getting to he essence of observation/the subjectivity of the observer,it seems.

How fundamental is image/imagination as compared to logos/the word ? How vision dependent as opposed to other "senses" ? How primary is image ?

How does constructing meaning relate to the observation of the twin processes ? To what degree is meaning an abstraction divorced from more primary experience ?

Maybe the questions have to be better stated before there are answers. Thanks again.



Tom,

I guess Remo will give you a more satisfactory reply, but my immediate reaction to your post is as follow:

this is not a discussion about metaphysical considerations but the amplification of raw facts.

Edinger was my last hope when I was looking for a wider reference frame for my Logos satisfaction. Happily enough I was not satisfied, so I had to go deeper into myself.

Just give it a real try. Sorry if this sounds a little abrupt. I am not at ease with the English language subtleties.

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:49 pm
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Roger-

I appreciate your words.

Thanks.


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Post addendum to thoughts regarding the 'repressed female' post
Hi Everyone

My post above on the subject of the 'subtle body' idea as related to a woman's inner process, and how some of this material appears to have been referred to in ancient texts, in particular my referencing of Mary Magdalene and her relationship with Jesus, was only really to show that the world in general seems to be coming to a different sensiblity around such issues. Certainly here we cross the line into an area dominated by much spiritual speculation, which can of course tend to cloud the issue. I only really meant my example to be viewed as an historical reference. That said, however, it seems that thoughts about such things as a 'subtle' body cannot help but bring in questions which have always been asked in relation to mysticism, theology and the like.

I also wanted to make it clear that I personally feel that generalizations concerning the capacities of one sex over another in regard to an ability to access the 'eros self' or an 'acausal' sensibility, are, of course, mere generalizations. I apologize if my words have had this effect on anyone reading the forum. Given all the different types of people in the world, there are an equal number of men who can access their 'eros ego' and hence observe the 'events' which unfold in the acausal world of the unus mundus, and this is made more than clear by reading what is experienced by the male members and male guests of the unus mundus forum.

We are all trying to maintain our balance in this world and all do so in the way best suited to us and to our 'task' in this life. I believe that men and women are coming to a point of equality in their inner lives which WILL bring them to capacities of which we may not yet even be aware. But we will arrive at this location only through an attitude of thoughtful receptivity, not through one of overstimulated angst and reactionary zeal.

It has been speculated that the 'lost feminine' contains a secret that could help us to uncover some capacities and attributes which, for both men and women, could be a revelation. I do not think this is far from wrong, but I do know that some men, and conceivably all men, naturally hold these capacities deep inside of themselves too, but that they have had to repress them, of necessity given our world, even further, with the result that theirs is a painful reemergence which many women may not even understand. And, of course, many women of our time, particularly in the affluent west, have drifted a long long way away from nature and the connection with the body of the earth which we are said to commune so naturally and so deeply with.

I firmly believe that all human beings (all creatures too) hold a privelaged innate connection with the earth 'body' by virtue of our birth - we have only to reawaken this amazing connection and with it many more mysteries which our own bodies, in concert with the body of the universe, can 'show' us. The possiblity of the creation of a 'subtle' body exists at the meeting place between the causal and the acausal worlds - in our own bodies. Is it any wonder that thoughts of mysticism and miracles come into our heads in association with speculations on such a concept?


Best,
Kristin

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Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:51 am
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Post Re: Pauli's myth
Quote:
In my neutral language I would say that his myth was the observation of the twin process, the exchange of attributes belonging to the Hermetic alchemical, the second coniunctio I describe in my terms in chapter 4 of The Holy Wedding, http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... ntents.htm . In it spirit-psyche transforms into matter-psyche with potentially increased negentropy ("higher life"; increase of subtle body), and in the parallel process this potentiality re-transforms into spirit-psyche, however with a realized higher negentropy (realized higher subtle body).


Perhaps a last remark: Though in Pauli's dream the above twin process was more than once shown, he was not able to realize it. Remeber that his neurosis began exactly after he had postulated the neutrino/antineutrino in late 1930. Thus, I am convinced that all his dreams are a reaction on the definition of this particle for the rescue of the energy conservation law. Like this physics was once again saved -- but 26 years later, in 1956 it was shown that exactly the neutrino/antineutrino violated another conservation law, the conservation of parity.

I try to interpret Pauli's dreams on a psychophysical level, ie with the help of the assumption -- derivated from a modern interpretation of the Axiom of Maria Prophetissa -- that the energy term must be bipolar (See also http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/gslectu ... _p2.htm#22 ). If so, the neutrino/antineutrino is replaced by this other energy aspect which is however (as already Paul Dirac has seen) completely "nonphysical." One of the most important aspects of this energy aspect -- I call it the matter-psyche, the energy of the unus mundus -- is that the more it is added to a body, the more it slows it down; exactly the contrary of physical energy (outer spirit-psyche).

Back to Pauli. Perhaps a fortnight before the postulation of the neutrino/antineutrino he divorced Kaethe Deppner, a dancer of the Trudi Schoop school in Zurich. Here we see that he projected onto her first the dance -- which came then back together with the Chinese woman (the world soul) in his dreams and visions -- and second the "Depp." Not too many people know what a Depp is. In Austria (Pauli was Austrian) a Depp is a stupid -- the Fool on the Hill --, and I am sure that Pauli knew this term. Thus he projected the stupid onto this woman (and later onto C.A. Meier), as well as the dance.

If we become conscious about the "stupid," we try to become a human who is consciously entering what I call today the Eros ego. This means consciously abandoning thinking and trying to relate to introverted feeling, introverted (corporeal!) sensation and introverted intuition. Like this Body-Centered Imagination becomes possible.

This means also that one begins to see and feel how slow the real feeling is. What we usually call (extraverted) feeling is nothing else than a feeling persona! We have learned how one behaves on the collective "feeling" level, and we use it in the same way we use collective thinking. Only when we abandon this way of thinking as well as this way of feeling, it becomes possible to begin to feel and to sensate the introverted corporeal reactions.

Thus it is a slowing down (and an introvertion) on the feeling level, which is necessary to enter BCI. This slowing down is however exactly the most important aspect of the above "nonphysical energy." What I call the Eros ego and BCI, the relationship with the Eros Self, have therefore to do with what I call matter-psyche (“non-physical energy”). Like this, on a psychophysical level, the “non-physical” energy or matter-psyche becomes the substitute for the neutrino/antineutrino.

After the divorce Pauli should have learned to enter these slow introverted feelings (which means also conscious suffering) -- the Eros ego. Since he was not able to do this, he postulated a material substitute, the neutrino/antineutrino. Meant was however the psychophysical aspect, the introverted feeling, and therefore the preconscious knowledge of the collective unconscious (the stranger and the Chinese) began to send him all these incredibly archetypal dreams.

It is a psychological matter of fact that a deep wounding of the feeling function leads into the reaction of the developing or even over-developing of the thinking function. Perhaps the deepest root of our will to understand (cognition) is this deep injury of the feelings. Thus, we have to consciously deal with this wound and try to slow down, to introvert and like this to come back to the very subliminal feelings which replace the also subliminal "particle" neutrino/antineutrino.

Only like this we can hope that we find a way out of the crisis of the beginning 21st century.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:53 am
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Post The Treasure of the UNUS MUNDUS women
It is this introverted way of feeling and sensating which is the great treasure of the women in this UNUS MUNDUS forum. Of them we men can therefore learn very much.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Dear Remo


Thank you so much for your description (in the above "Pauli Myth" post) of the BCI, the slow 'way' of true sensation, and the deep wounding of the feeling function which we can all truly heal. I really felt this description right inside with all of my heart.

("the [one] with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still")



:)
Kristin

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Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:37 am
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Post Word and Image (part I):
Tom wrote:
How fundamental is image/imagination as compared to logos/the word ? How vision dependent as opposed to other "senses" ? How primary is image ?

How does constructing meaning relate to the observation of the twin processes ? To what degree is meaning an abstraction divorced from more primary experience ?


Remo Roth wrote:

It is a psychological matter of fact that a deep wounding of the feeling function leads into the reaction of the developing or even over-developing of the thinking function. Perhaps the deepest root of our will to understand (cognition) is this deep injury of the feelings. Thus, we have to consciously deal with this wound and try to slow down, to introvert and like this to come back to the very subliminal feelings which replace the also subliminal "particle" neutrino/antineutrino.


With this remark I began perhaps to answer Tom's questions.

If we believe in Jung, extracting the meaning of dreams and especially of synchronicities is the via regia, the king's road to individuation. More and more I begin to doubt this.

As I have shown in http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... 52.htm#521 and http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... 22.htm#522 I distinguish today between two different sorts of creation; first, the creation by cognition, and second, the creation by observation. The first is what happens in a good interpreation of dreams and synchronicities. The meaning of our life is increased and we find the path into our individual future. Further it seems, as Pauli has guessed, that by such a procedure the "consciousness” of the (Logos] Self increases. In a religious language this would mean that man has helped God to become more conscious -- exactly what Jung demanded as a consequence of Job's suffering (see Answer to Job).

However, as quantum physics, at least its Copenhagen interpretation has shown, there is also a creation by observation: If we observe a quantum leap, a new incarnation has taken place. Thus, it seems that there exists the possibility of an incarnation by mere observation of a human being. This is why I postulate that we should also in our inside look for such (singular) acausal quantum leaps.

Such an incarnation would however not happen on the level of the spirit/mind (what I call the level of the conscious spirit-psyche or Logos), but on the level of the physical reality. This means in principle that we can help in the creation process of new life (by the world soul in the process described as the unio corporalis or Holy Wedding by Hermetic alchemists). It seems that such a creation and incarnation process consists in the increase of the negentropy of physical energy and physical matter.
Since such an observation is only possible with the help of the introverted feeling and the introverted corporeal sensation, the incredible importance of these two functions comes in.

Remo

[to be continued]

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:22 pm
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Post Word and Image (part II):
Because of the deep wounding of our feelings in our childhood and youth (and also later), we have learned to repress these functions and replace them by (extraverted) thinking and extraverted sensation. We replace the introverted feeling by extraverted thinking, ie the inner or introverted empiry [introverted feeling and (corporeal) sensation] by the outer [extraverted thinking and sensation].

Carl Jung found back to the introverted thinking, which is more or less equal to symbolic thinking. He describes this process in his book Symbols of Transformation written shortly before his big crisis (called "the night sea journey") of 1913 to 1918. The latter was caused by the incredible repression of his feelings, the extraverted as well as the introverted, during his time as a psychiatrist in the Burghölzli in Zurich. [He was for example able to pathologize his cousin Helly as a neurotic hysteria and at the same time to court her; see http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... h5p4_e.htm ].

His "cure" was the discovery of introverted thinking, symbolic thinking. He did however not succeeed in the discovery of what I call introverted feeling and especially of introverted corporeal sensation (as I described them above). This is why with the help of Active Imagination, which is completely on the level of the inner spirit-psyche (objective psychic energy), ie the attempt to reach new cognition, it is not possible to observe the other incarnation, the creation of life on a higher level (what I call in a neutral language: the outer spirit-psyche, ie physical energy, with incarnated increased negentropy). Therefore here come the limits of Carl Jung's depth psychology.

Introverted thinking speaks in symbols, with the help of a “bildhafte Sprache”, an imaginary language. The trouble is however that it is still a language, since any language is a causal construct. Exception: James Joyce, especially in his Ulysses (Jung hated so much!!!). The transformation happens in what I call the “as if.” When we speak like this, ie “This is, as if …,” we replace the term of the language by an image, by a real image and not by a “Wortbild” (“wordly image”?).

This mentality of the “as if” we can also apply to our body. Like this we can describe a symptom with the help of the “as if,” ie as an image. This is however nothing else than the transformation of the term of thoughts into an image of feelings.

Since such an “as if” idea comes mostly very spontaneous into our mind, it corresponds to what I call an inner acausal quantum leap. [Such a spontaneous quantum leap happens also during a spontaneous association to a dream motif. This is why the association process is so important in a creative dream interpretation.]

We can however also look for the acausal quantum leap on the sensation level of the body. We take a symptom, eg a pain, and bring it down into the belly. If we are patient enough, the symptom transforms perhaps into a symbol, an inner image or even an “inner movie.” It seems that this “as if” attitude on the level of the sensation and the feelings is the via regia of the individuation process with the help of my Body-Centered Imagination.

As we realize, in BCI there is no cognition, “only” mere observation. And this observation seems to help the creation of “increased negentropy”, of “higher life.”

I guess that such a process is the background of healing. Since such processes are acausal, and acausality is also nonlocal, we have the point A situation of Carl Jung: If it has happened in one human, it has happened everywhere (and always?). Like this such a method can become a method for the healing of the disease of our world.

Now I can answer Tom’s first question: I guess that BCI (the image) is more fundamental than A.I. (the word), since with the former we become able to help the change and the healing of the world in a nonlocal way, whereus with new cognition (A.I.) we can only change it in a causal (ie local) way.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:33 pm
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Post Marie-Louise von Franz and BCI
Some core ideas and examples of Body-Centered Imagination I published first in my book Hat AIDS einen Sinn? – Behandlungsmöglichkeiten der HIV-Infektion auf der Grundlage tiefenpsychologischer Imaginationsmethode (Does AIDS Have Meaning? HIV Treatment Possibilities on the Basis of Imaginal Methods in Depth Psychology) in 1994.

Marie-Louise von Franz was fascinated by these ideas, and she called my book "revolutionary."

Since then I was sure that she also tried to enter BCI. It was also in 1994 that her foreword to my I Cercatori di Dio (The Quest for God) was published, in which she accepted the Seal of Solomon as another God-image besides the quaternity.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:02 pm
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Post 
kristin wrote:
Dear Remo

Thank you so much for your description (in the above "Pauli Myth" post) of the BCI, the slow 'way' of true sensation, and the deep wounding of the feeling function which we can all truly heal. I really felt this description right inside with all of my heart.


Oh, Kristin, thanks!

("the [one] with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still")

This passage I didn't have in mind when I wrote about the fool. It is perfect!

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Word and Image (part I):
Remo Roth wrote:
If we believe in Jung, extracting the meaning of dreams and especially of synchronicities is the via regia, the king's road to individuation. More and more I begin to doubt this.

Remo



Thank you for writing this Remo.

Some time ago I was revisiting what I believe I have understood of Jung's work, and felt again the same frustration.

I guess Jung is at his most natural in the seminars, and there one can see the contradiction you describe. He lets himself go and touches this other realm his thinking cannot grasp. So his feeling stays suspended in mid air and he goes back to the Herr Professor stuff.

So I follow your doubts. Spirit-psyche is one part of the twin process and not a prerequisite, for it is a twin process. And I guess that as in this image of my opening dream, the exchange nourrishes both aspects.

Quote:
a blue circle appears in the sky as if created by the pressure of an outer sphere against the atmospheric sphere of the earth. Inside the circle there are 2x3 dots moving in a circular movement on themselves and arranged in 2 triangles. They tend to swap their positions too [emphasis mine].
http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=156#156

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Last edited by Roger Faglin on Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 pm
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