UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
(All posts are the property of their respective authors)
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:47 am



 [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic
 Dreams of Carl Gustav Jung's Reincarnation 
Author Message
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Dream of Jung's Resurrection from Death
Remo Roth wrote:
During the devotion a performance of Beethoven's ninth symphony takes place. A famous conductor directs a famous orchestra. It seems to be a very solemn occasion.


#9 is the number of mysticism. It is at the border to the two digits numbers, thus to a "higher realm" (as is 99, 999, 9999 and so on). I wrote my Thesis about #9, since in my big life crisis I drew some images, in which #9 is omnipresent.

Beethoven's Symphony #9 is a turning point (!) in the history of classical music, and it influenced all the following generations of composers.

Thus, this motif would like to tell us that Jung's reincarnation leads to a new mysticism (I think, independent of any religious denomination), in which a new way of imagination (= mysticism) is developed.

I think that Anne Marie's experience above is a good example of this new mysticism.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:53 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post My Vegetative Body as Abraxas and the Snake
On Dec 24, 1979 I begin a Symptom-Symbol Transformation (I guess the first I ever did), since I felt a pain in the left shoulder.

Suddenly a snake enters my body and more and more I have the sensation to be a snake myself. I feel that my hands fall off, and then the sensation that I get snake hands. I remember Abraxas of whom I had read some days before:

Image

In contrast to me Abraxas has snake legs, but never mind.

It is a funny synchronicity that in connection with the next dream about Jung’s reincarnation (see below) I come back to this SST/BCI exactly now. I read about Abraxas in Shamdasani's introduction in the Red Book some days ago. P. 205-6 he writes that

Quote:
in Jung's soul a new God had been born, the God who is the son of the frogs, Abraxas ... [Jung] saw this figure as representing the uniting of the Christian God with Satan, and hence as depicting a transformation of the Western God-image.


Funny, that one very deep element of my friendship with Marie-Louise von Franz was our common esteem for frogs and toads. Behind her tower she had even a toad's pool,

Image

and she told me that Jung considered to create also one on the north side of his Bollingen tower.

Abraxas is the main symbol of Septem Sermones ad Mortuos, one of the most important texts of the Red Book. In my interpretation this Gnostic God is the reunion of causality and acausality, which is present in what I call the inner (acausal) quantum leap during the so-called twin process: the spontaneous observation of inner images and/or vegetative bodily sensations (as Ann Marie's above!) coming out of the belly in the state of the Eros ego. It is of course exactly what I call Body-Centered Imagination or Symptom-Symbol Transformation (in the case of physical disease).

In the introduction mentioned above, Shamdasani does however not distinguish this Hermetic method from Carl Jung's Neoplatonic Active Imagination. As I mentioned, like this he cannot realize that Jung (and of course also the Jungians of today) unconsciously mixed up Neoplatonic verbal A.I. and Hermetic BCI. Only after his heart attack in 1944 Jung realized that there is also a vegetative body. He had the sensation to be 1.000 km above India, as one can read in MDR. Here, Jung, for the first time experienced the subtle body, was however not able anymore to include it and its experience in the state of the Eros ego into his theory. This is so, since in his Typology Carl Jung did not realize the vegetative sensation function. In my experience above I experienced it first – and began to sensate my vegetative body (subtle body) as Abraxas.

In my notes 30 years ago I wrote further that during this experiment I felt/sensed for the first time that I was centered in the first Chakra, muladhara. This is why I do not believe in Jung, when he writes in Kundalini Yoga that the muladhara is (Logos) consciousness(1). It is the Chakra of Eros consciousness. And only this one is able to experience the vegetative body or subtle body (or body soul secretly identical with the world soul), and the reunion of the Eros ego with the Eros Self.

Similar phenomena happened to Eduard in 2006 (see viewtopic.php?p=8549&highlight=#8549 ) and to Ann Marie during this month (see viewtopic.php?p=8586&highlight=#8586 ).

Remo

1) The Psychology of Kundalini Yoga, 1996; see end of first lecture and beginning of the second.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:40 pm
Profile WWW
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:07 pm
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:39 pm
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Butterfly / Moth Synchronicity
Junis wrote:
Look what happened right after I posted about Beethoven's blindness. A butterfly settled in our kitchen and hasn't left since. It is still in the psotion of the last picture at the window:


Jan

Very interesting! IMO the butterfly is a symbol of the body soul/world soul since it has yet a body, but flies in very odd movements with spontaneous changes. Somehow like an UFO.

Yes, Beethoven was deaf. This shows that he heard the music with the help of the vegetative ns. It came out of his VNS, out of the Eros Self. This is of course true for all really touching music.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:12 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Jung's Materialization and Dematerialization
I would like to present now the next, the fourth dream of Jung's reincarnation:

Three days after the above BCI/SST, in which I became a snake and in some way Abraxas, on Dec 27, 1997, I dreamed:


Dream of Carl Jung's materialization and dematerialization

I am in a place I do not know, in the "somewhere else" perhaps. Suddenly Carl G. Jung "materializes." This means that out of the blue he becomes real, and becomes the old man that I know from the movie "Face to Face." He is limping and using a walking stick (as in "Face to Face"). Then, suddenly he "dematerializes."

I noted further that the stunning aspect of all this is the fact of the "materialization." It is not like in other dreams that Jung is just in them, but this materialization/dematerialization phenomenon is the important aspect.

Further I noted that, after my experience of becoming a snake, I had read amplifications about the snake.

Today, I see that the BCI/SST with the snake, described above, was the cause of this dream (if we can talk in this causal attitude about the snake event and the dream).



As you surely see, in the BCI/SST I fell unconsciously into the Eros consciousness. In this vegetative state I experienced the vegetative aspect of my body, the snake/Abraxas. The dream shows me today that it is in fact so that Carl Jung enters my VNS, so to speak, as he stated in the above quote:

Quote:
There are experiences which show that the dead entangle themselves, so to speak, in the physiology (sympathetic nervous system) [vegetative ns in today’s language; RFR] of the living. [Jung’s Letters, Volume I, p. 258]


However, it seems that C.G. disappears as soon as I transform back into the Logos state. Perhaps this is a hint that the reincarnation of Jung happens in fact in the "realm" of the vegetative ns, in the Eros Self or in the unus mundus, and it is only observable in the state of the Eros ego.

As some of you know, I am convinced today that similar events happen in UFO/Alien encounter. Since, however, the humans concerned are not at all conscious of the possibility of entering the Eros ego, they experience all this in the outside.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:39 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Back to Possession
Jung continues the above quote as follows:

Quote:
This would probably result in states of possession


Since I never felt a possession, I did perhaps not weight this fact too much. Now, however, especially with the above mentioned states of possession of some members of the forum, I think that I should warn people.

I still think that the possession coming out of the "unconscious" has much to do with will possession of the ego: As long as one would like to influence the "incarnations" and "reincarnations," the world soul becomes furious and lets their succubi/incubi torture the human concerned.

But as we see in Ann Marie's post [ http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#8554 ], as soon as we let the world soul do the work, the succubi/incubi disappear.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:47 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Becoming the snake/Abraxas instead of talking to it
Quote:
As you surely see, in the BCI/SST I fell unconsciously into the Eros consciousness. In this vegetative state I experienced the vegetative aspect of my body, the snake/Abraxas.


Let us remember the fact that Abraxas is a reunion of the Christian God and the devil. As I have mentioned above, in my terminology this means the union of the causal flow of life with a sudden, spontaneous interruption by the singular quantum leap, by spontaneous inner images or vegetative sensations in the body (as for example my becoming a snake or Ann Marie's union with "Mother Earth").

Thus, the dream seems to confirm that BCI/SST, in which one does not talk with the snake respectively with the Great Mother, but unifies with it/Her, is the method we need -- and not the confrontation in verbal Active Imagination.

I will come back to this aspect in Shamdasani's description of Jung's A.I.s in the Introduction to the Red Book below.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:03 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post 
Remo,

Last night I attempted to sink into my body as I went to sleep, to seek the images arising within the body. I had the following dream - more an inner presence than a dream:-

'I dream of the Apple Woman, from the 'The Mystic Life of Merlin'. She holds her magic apples in her hands – white in the left, red in the right (I think). She is a powerful presence.'

In 'The Mystic Life of Merlin', Merlin encounters the Apple Woman in her magic orchard, and she gives him magical fruit. It is poisonous to his companions, who suffer death and madness. Merlin instead prophesies.

This is material from a tradition that has been mentioned here in connection with Jung's transformations. The Apple Woman is an important figure in Merlin's story. She is the dark face of the Goddess. I think that the shedding of the will or ego is what saves Merlin from the fate of his companions. Your comments about letting the World Soul do as she will - I have always had an instinctive knowledge of the World Soul, but it has led me to feel that she needs rescuing. Maybe this is the will intruding, I don't know.

With regard to the fruit, when Adam takes the apple from Eve, contrary to God's prediction, he does not die.

I wrote an EMail to a friend recently, and I wrote that sometimes one must leave one's ego at the door. Or one's head, perhaps?

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:50 am
Profile
Post Golden Apple ejecting Black Sun
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:23 pm
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:56 pm
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:29 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post 
Jan,

I certainly have very different feelings about the two singers. Cohen has a strong religious element - he has studied both Zen and Judaism for years. I felt that the dream was showing him as a sort of Skywalker. The immediate cause of his illness was food-poisoning, and happily he recovered quickly.

In my youth, I spent holidays in the Greek Islands where Cohen lived at one time, and have spoken to people who had seen him there. It reminded me of that a bit.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:42 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post Possession
Some years ago, I attended a meeting of the Astrological Asociation in London. There was a member of the audience, a man, who kept interrupting the talk and shouting out, in praise of Saturn. He was discussing him astrologically, but referring to him as a god who rules the world and can solve all problems. It was bizarre. He seemed harmless. Eventually he was ejected. Maybe this was this a form of possession.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:09 pm
Profile
Post Eros and the Dolphins
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:10 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post 
Quote:
Jan wrote:
I can't find your dream about the Dolphin carrying you when you thought you were drowning:


It's on this thread, page 2.

I think that Leonard Cohen fainted on his birthday.

Edited: It was in fact 3 days before his birthday.

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:23 pm
Profile
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:56 pm
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:27 pm
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 4:05 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Sheffield, UK
Post 
Jan,

I have started a new thread under 'Miscellaneous' based upon Astrology and your question:-
http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=870

Patrick

_________________
"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:29 am
Profile
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Content of the thread
All

Junis wrote:
Patrick, Remo, All,

I hope this discussion is not taking up too much space on this thread about your dreams on Jung's reincarnation, Remo, and all


Sometimes I ask myself if the posts really belong to the thread title. On the other hand I know that we cannot just cut the stuff into pieces. Thus, before you post, ask yourself weather it belongs to the thread. Otherwise you can always open a new thread.

Thanks

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:50 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Jung's A.I. and the Appearance of the Spirits of the Dead
The BCI/SST in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#8589 and the concomitant dream in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#8618 bring us back to the difference between BCI and Active Imagination.

In the introduction to the Red Book Shamdasani writes several times of Active Imagination. Though he writes that also imagining inner figures and drawing them is A.I., he stresses the verbal aspect of it. Quoting C.G. Jung he writes on p. 217:

Quote:
One needed to objectify the anima and to pose questions to her, by the method of inner dialogue or active imagination. Everyone, he claimed, had this ability to hold dialogues with him- or herself. Active Imagination would thus be one form of inner dialogue, a type of dramatized thinking. [Emphasis mine]


On the other hand, Jung experienced many parapsychological events. One of the most important is also quoted in the introduction: “The Return of the Dead,” on pp. 205-7. In 1916, thus some years after Jung invented A.I. (he did so in 1914) the spirits came back from the Beyond. When Jung wrote down Septem Sermones ad Mortuos they disappeared.

I think that we cannot describe these parapsychological events as A.I., especially since according to Jung the latter is induced intentionally. The spirits, however, did not at all appear as a result of conscious intention. Jung, and with him the whole household, was overwhelmed by them.

It seems that Shamdasani does not differentiate between A.I. and the “reincarnation” of the spirits. This is the case, since he does not differentiate between the Neoplatonic and the Hermetic world view. A.I., especially the dialogues with the negative anima, in which (bad) emotions transform into (good) insights, is Neoplatonic; the relation with the spirits, however, is Hermetic.

In a yet unpublished ms I wrote:

Quote:
In June 1895 Carl began to hold regular séances with Helly and some other cousins including also his mediumistic mother, the daughter of Samuel that endured up until 1899 . They were however interrupted at least two times. As much as one can reconstruct them from Zumstein-Preiswerk’s booklet, the first part ended in autumn 1895. On November 15th, 1896, her 15th birthday, Carl gave Helly the book Die Seherin von Prevost (The Seeress of Prevost) by Justinus Kerner as a present, and as a result Helly entered a spontaneous trance. However, the séances were forbidden up until spring 1897 because of Helly’s confirmation . In the autumn and winter 1897 there was a further series of sessions, which seem however have been interrupted in spring 1898, since Carl had lost his interest in them . After two impressive psychokinetic events in August 1898 (see below) seen by everyone as a request by the spirit world to continue, there was a further period of séances, which were so successful that Carl asked some of his college compatriots to participate . In the presence of these unfamiliar men Helly was not able to enter the trance state anymore. Jung, however, writes later that she began to cheat , and that this was the reason why he interrupted the sessions. In August 1899 it seems that there was a further period of sessions, in which Helly had real shamanistic initiation visions . Since she was convinced that “Carl wants to explore the soul and the hereafter”, and that she was “chosen to help him in this exploration,” she was very enthusiastic about these séances. Thus, it is very probable that the family rumors are true that she finally fell in love for him .

As I have briefly mentioned above, in August or September of the year 1898 something occurred, which we would today call a psychokinetic Pauli effect . The seventy-year-old round walnut dining table serving as the séance’s place , split from center to rim, and some weeks later a bread knife in Jung’s household exploded with a loud bang shattering into four pieces. Everyone was now convinced that this was a sign that the séances disrupted for some months, should resume.


These parapsychological phenomena happened in the moment in which Jung lost his interest in the séances with Helly, in 1898, when he began the studies in practical medicine and to read Nietzsche. In this moment he abandoned the Hermetic world view, repressed the relation with the spirits of the dead, and became a materialistic doctor (with the associated Neoplatonic world view).

Since 1914 Jung had developed A.I. and in 1916 the spirits came back and produced strange Pauli effects in his household. Thus, the question arises if they compensated again Jung’s Neoplatonic world view.

Shamdasani gives an interesting detail of the description of the invasion of the spirits in 1916 on p. 205, in the description of it by Cary Baynes. Jung’s son, Franz, had a vision of the Devil and a fisherman. The Devil would like to take with him the fisherman, but an angel said: “No you can’t take this man, he is taking only bad fishes and none of the good ones.” Is this perhaps a description of Neoplatonic A.I., in which exactly the bad fishes are caught and transformed into (good) ideas?

If so, it seems that it was Jung’s fate not to deal with the “good fishes.” The trouble is that specific humans have to deal with the “good fishes” and thus cannot avoid the “devils.” They have to accept that the so-called devils are in possession of good things. However, it seems that the necessary procedure has nothing to do with A.I.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:47 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post The Catalytic Exteriorisation Phenomenon
When Jung met Freud the 2nd time in Vienna, in 1909, Jung liked to know Freud's opinion re: parapsychology:

Quote:
It interested me to hear Freud's views on precognition and on parapsychology in gerneral. When I visited him in Vienna in 1909 I asked him what he thought of these matters. Because of his materialistic prejudice, he rejected this entire complex of questions as nonsensical, and did so in terms of so shallow a positivism that I had difficulty in checking the sharp retort on the tip of my tongue. It was some years before he recognised the seriousness of parapsychology and acknowledged the factuality of 'occult' phenomena.

While Freud was going on this way, I had a curious sensation. It was as if my diaphragm were made of iron and were becoming red-hot -- a glowing vault. And at that moment there was such a loud report in the bookcase, which stood right next to us, that we both started up in alarm, fearing the thing was going to topple over on us. I said to Freud: 'There, that is an example of a so-called catalytic exteriorisation phenomenon.' [MDR, Fontana Press edition, p. 178-9]


I would like to stress here two things: First, we realize that Jung transformed back from the materialistic physician to someone who was interested in parapsychology. Thus, he changed from the Neoplatonic worldview to the Hermetic. As I have described in the above mentioned ms, it seems that this was the case because of his relationship with Sabina Spielrein, who unconsciously was completely penetrated by Hermetic ideas, especially the idea of the self-fertilization of the world soul. I interpret the self-fertilization of the world soul as the singular inner quantum leap, as the spontaneous observation of inner images and/or sensations of the vegetative body -- as the ones described in this thread: Ann Marie's physical becoming the Great Mother, and my becoming the snake/Abraxas.

Second, we see that also here, as in the other parapsychological phenomena, a psychokinetic event, a Pauli effect happened. It happened exactly in the moment when Freud dismissed parapsychology. Thus, the common background of the two events in 1898, in Freud's house in 1909 and in Jung's house in 1916 was psychokinesis.

These events are Hermetic insofar as we have to assume the bipolarity of the energy term (at least in my interpretation), which means that a transformation into the magic matter-psyche (the energy of the unus mundus) happens, and a re-transformation into spirit-psyche (physical energy) with increased order. The latter then does not follow known physical laws anymore.

As you know, I interpret also UFO encounter in the same way. We understand now, why at the end of his life Carl Jung was so interested in UFOs, and wrote Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies (today in CW 10). In some way his psychokinetic experiences were his "UFO experiences."

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:18 am
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Christians cannot accept Abraxas
In 1916 Carl Jung banned the spirits with their psychokinetic Pauli effects by writing Septem Sermones ad Mortuos, the Seven Sermons to the Dead. It seems therefore that this was his individual solution to the problem of the reincarnation of the Dead: they reincarnated in his mind. They seemed however not to be incarnated in his body.

One of the main gods in the Sermons is Abraxas. As we can see in the text, http://www.gnosis.org/library/7Sermons.htm , he/she is the reunion of the opposites, of God and the Devil.

At the end of Sermo II Jung/Basilides writes that the Dead who came back from Jerusalem, where she did not find what they looked for, cannot accept Abraxas because they are Christians. It seems that they must reincarnate in Jung since as Christians they have not fully fulfilled their fate. They have cut off and repressed the Devil, the other aspect of Abraxas.

If we interpret the Devil as the singular inner (acausal) quantum leap observable by the Eros ego, we can say that this is exactly what is missing. In my case, in the above first BCI/SST of my life in 1979, my causal physical life (the pain) was interrupted by the spontaneous, ie acausal appearance of the snake or of Abraxas. [The pain disappeared as later in many other occasions, in my case as well as in the one of my patients.] He/she did not enter my mind, but my body. This is the difference to Carl Jung’s experience with Abraxas.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:48 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post The Difference between Jung's and my Abraxas
We can now compare the return of the Dead and of Abraxas in 1916 in Jung's household with my experience of the snake/Abraxas in 1979. We realize that Carl Jung experienced psychokinetic phenomena in the outer world. I, however, did not. I think the reason is that in contrast to Carl Jung I accepted the possibility of the matter-psyche only observable in the state of the Eros ego. As we know, the latter allows for these vegetative sensations (and images) as for example the transformation of my body into the snake or Abraxas during the above Body-Centered Imagination.

Since the matter-psyche is what I call psychophysically nonlocal, it connects us with the unus mundus or with the Beyond. Thus, over the vegetative nervous system we are connected to them. This is however only possible, if we accept the possibility of the experience of inner phenomena based in the VNS. If we do not – and Carl Jung was not able to do so, since he was not conscious of the Eros ego, the vegetative ego that observes and senses in a completely different way – the constellated transformations happen in the outside, as destructive Pauli effects.

If we accept this observation and sensation mode, something with our body happens: It seems that like this the subtle body, the (Daoist) diamond body is created or extended. This “other body” is also called the deified body. And the god behind all this seems to be Abraxas, the unification of God and the Devil. In my interpretation this means the unification of causality and acausality that happens in the observation of the inner (acausal) quantum leap. Another example of this phenomen is Ann Marie’s (subtle) physical sensation of becoming the Great Mother.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:50 pm
Profile WWW
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:00 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:10 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Post Butterfly
Jan,
I am so enjoying your butterflys!!!!!!! While making my bed one morning this past week, I "noticed" that a pillow on my bed has a butterfly on it .......... and I too laughed and felt "warmed and connected".
I did a name change a few years ago.............had always used only "Ann", never the Marie part. On my 50th B'day, 6 years ago, I bought myself a book that I was always borrowing from the library......" The Hidden Truth of Your Name" by The Nomenology Project. I was not satisfied with what it said about the name "Ann", it seemed not enough. When I saw what the Kabbalistic Synopsis, the Runic interpretation and Numerology said about Marie and Ann, it felt more "me" so I began using the fuller name Ann Marie.
I am sorry if I offended you in addressing you as Junis..............it was not intentional, it was my lack of attention to important details and I hope to not repeat this...........
On another note, I received von Franz's book, "On Dreams and Death" this week..........am considering starting a new thread .........am feeling encouraged to post / share. Her book "Alchemical Active Imagination" is also on its way and just yesterday Amazon emailed me that they have finally shipped Jungs "Red Book".........I am a very "visual" person Jan, and am especially interested in the illustrations in the "Red Book" AND their impact on my own journey / process.......
It will be what it will be.............have a good weekend Jan. My best to all.
Ann Marie

_________________
Ann Marie


Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:22 am
Profile
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:00 am
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Causal and Acausal description of the World
Junis wrote:
Now, I'm sure there's a perfectly rational explanation for this, but then the butterfly suddenly appeared from behind me, as if it had briefly left the space time continuum through a wormhole and had reentered it at a different point.


Jan, I think that we can always look at the world from two standpoints: the one of Logos and the one of Eros. For the Logos it is clear that there must be a causal explanation; for the Eros there is however the possibility of an acausal explanation -- ie an incarnation phenomenon. This is what Hermetic alchemy yet was able to experience; but then causal mathematics entered the description of nature and the acausal phenomena disappeared into the "unconscious."

Logos/causality is also the reason why science cannot accept synchronicity. IMO, in the state of experiencing synchronicities we live in the Eros ego, the Hermetic ego, the acausal ego. When we try to interpret the synchronicity, we change into the Logos ego, since we begin to think about it. The Eros ego does however not exist for science. It is not able to accept and thus to experience these observations with the help of the vegetative nervous system.

Remo

PS: As I wrote above the butterfly phenomenon shows that in you the observation of the subtle body/body soul is constellated. The latter is what I call psychophysically nonlocal, and this is nothing else than the acceptance of the possibility of (acausal) worm holes in the space-time (the latter by Einstein's definition being causal!).

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:00 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:32 am
Posts: 827
Images: 1
Location: Virginia, USA
Post Remo, here's your "belly brain" in ancient times
... "underneath your densely packed diaphragm" ...

Image

Provided to the forum by Eduard Klarer originally.


Get ready for this! From an interview:

P E T E R ..... K I N G S L E Y
and ... the
D i s c o m f o r t ... of ... W i s d o m


SELECTION: Dr. Kingsley’s books offer rich detail to considerable depth on the language of Parmenides and Empedocles. It is one of the foundations of his work. I asked for his comments.....

Dr. Kingsley replies: I began to realize that in the last two hundred years each time a scholar translates Empedocles he might make a point of questioning some minor detail here or there but will basically just copy the earlier scholars’ translations. The result is totally bizarre. I give examples in my new book, like the one right at the beginning of the very special passage where Empedocles is talking about his words and describing how they need to be absorbed and taken in...

Where he says “If you press my words down underneath your densely packed diaphragm” (referring to specific breathing practices), all scholars nowadays will translate him as saying “If you press my words into your crowded brain.” And this process, of crowding our already crowded brains even further, is of course something we are all only too familiar with. But it has nothing to do with what Empedocles is saying.

LINK TO POST: http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?p=8695#8695

Suzanne

_________________
"Only if a man dares to entrust himself again to the depth of his origin can he reach the height for which he was destined." Karlfried Graf Durckheim


Last edited by Suzanne on Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:10 pm
Profile Personal album
Post 
deleted on request


Last edited by Gone on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:44 pm
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post The Reincarnation of the Unredeemed Carl Gustav Jung
We can now return to the snippets of my ms about C.G. Jung I published in Patrick's thread Dream about Jung http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#8366 . I would like to give a short summary of them, and draw some final conclusions:

The beginning of Jung’s third vision of Dec 1913, the battle of the snakes, shows that Carl Jung had to repress the relationship with the vegetative body. Only like this he was able to define the Anima as symbolic thinking that compensated the directed thinking of the scientist. The confrontation between causal/directed thinking of the scientific ego and the symbolic thinking of the Anima (or the affects that transformed into it) he called Active Imagination.

The effect of this repression was that Carl Jung was not yet able to realize the Eros ego with its most important vegetative sensation function. Thus he neither was able to create a conscious relationship with the vegetative body. His theory and his behaviour remained in the Neoplatonic world view.

Already in Transformations and Symbols of the Libido of 1911/12 Carl Jung defined the libido, psychic energy, as unipolar and masculine. Like this he was neither able to realize the real feminine energy, the magic energy. The latter corresponds to the Hermetic alchemical queen of equal worth as the king, and to the triangle directed to below of the Seal of Solomon of Hermetic alchemy. It is what it called the world soul or anima mundi, a magic principle in every atom of the body as well as of the universe.

This is why Carl Jung’s Anima is also unipolar. She does not correspond to the world soul, to the anima mundi (the latter also defined as a “trinity”), but to symbolic thinking. This way, the Anima complements the Holy Trinity to Jung’s quaternity, to his image of the inner God-image, of the (Logos) Self. It seems that in 1916 he had more or less defined this theory.

But then the spirits of the Dead were reincarnated in Carl Jung, more exactly in his vegetative nervous system or in his unconscious Eros ego. Since he was unconscious of the latters, he experienced psychokinetic events; as did Wolfgang Pauli, the physicist and Nobel laureate (Pauli effect!), who had the same problem of not being conscious of the Eros ego and the vegetative body.

Jung’s solution of the problem was doing Active Imagination with the spirits, and he taught them that the real God is Abraxas, the reunion of God and the Devil. Like this he tamed the spirits.

However, the depth psychologist did not integrate the process of the deification of the body, of the creation of the subtle body/body soul as the means for healing physical disease and for the individual survival in the afterlife (the two aspects of what Paracelsus called the vita longa). Carl Gustav Jung thus did not advance to the archetype of the Celtic Druids, the priest-physician, though in 1913 he had to step down to their underworld. He remained a (revolutionary) depth psychologist – somehow unconsciously split between Neoplatonic theory (complexes, archetypes, causal development of the Self in AION) and a Hermetic (synchronicity). He was not able to realize that there is not only incarnation in the world of the mind (= synchronicity) but also incarnation and even reincarnation in the world of the body and of matter. IMO, my Body-Centered Imagination and Symptom-Symbol Transformation serve this process.

Since Carl Jung was not yet able to integrate the (magic) priest-physician, in one of the latest dreams of Marie-Louise von Franz he must come back – to the Black Madonna in Einsiedeln, Switzerland, the magical feminine healing power, as shown in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=76 . With the help of Active Imagination Jung was not able to integrate the Gnostic/Hermetic deification of the body – and this is why during his heart attack in a Near-Death Experience he had also an Out-of-Body Experience.

Thus, like Merlin Carl Gustav Jung is unredeemed [For Merlin see MLvF’s Jung Biography]. This is the reason why he must reincarnate; and as much as I understand this reincarnation happens into the vegetative nervous system (VNS) of some people (lets hope more and more). Symbolically seen this is the same as the marriage with the Black Madonna in the dream mentioned above, since all these healing processes happen in the VNS.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:58 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Re: Subtle Body / Logos and Eros
Jan

Junis wrote:
My impression is, that we don't need to see the two standpoints as rivals anymore. It is perfectly possible to look at it all from a logos standpoint, or from Hermetic eros. Although they seem to contradict each other at times one can just let logos and eros run parallel to each other without reducing either one to the standpoint of the other. I find this important in communicating these experiences to other people.


Yes, this is the most important aspect of the "dual view."

Quote:
These butterfly synchronicities belong here, because they seem to be my personal 'Hermetic' reaction to your dream posts, especially about Jung-Merlin and Abraxas, which resonate strongly. Thank you, Remo, for sharing these with us. It helps me to tune into the subtle body experience more and more. Suzanne, thanks for providing the image of the belly brain again :P


I see. And thanks to all for their contributions.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:27 pm
Profile WWW
Founder
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 2657
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Post Another Jung Reincarnation Dream
Another Jung reincarnation dream see in

Dream of the Reincarnation of Jung

Interpretations in the posts following the above.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:21 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Antonio Texas
Post Re: Dream of Carl Gustav Jung's Reincarnation
Remo Roth wrote:
Thank you all for the responses. I will answer them later, since fist I would like to continue my argument. (Otherwise I forget it).



In the first post I said that only today I understand this dream, since I understand now what “reincarnation” means. We realize it could mean the incarnation of deceased in the completely introverted world of the subtle body, of what in a neutral language I call the personal matter-psyche aspect of the world (the world soul being the collective matter-psyche aspect).

Remo



Hi Remo,

It has been a long time since I last corresponded on a forum with you, AND I so appreciate your knowledge and the forum you have constructed here for the more in depth understanding of Jung and what lies beneath us in our unconscious/collective unconscious worlds.

With that said, I wanted to restate the importance of the 'timelessness' otherworldly connection to the subtle body in dreams, etc. I have, since 1972, communicated often in my dream state and meditative state with Jung, even before I knew who he was. He basically corrects my endeavours and causes me to read something he wrote in whatever I am studying at the time. I have learned that through the last 30 plus years, how to notice when he has intervened into my thought patterns and given me clues as to what exists for me to research. I know that I have spoken with others who also see him in their dreams and connections. Since I am a therapist and an astrologer/alchemist, I am drawn to understanding in numerological and astrological symbols when something needs to be adjusted....by him especially....I hope I am being clear with my explanation, however, I think of this as a adventure into timelessness in which language is not rational but very irrational...and intuitive Again I appreciate all that you give to the community and your unique knowledge has helped me verify some important elements in my own alchemical understanding of life.

Best to you and your group,

Gwynne

_________________
"The human mind, in its never-ending changes, is like the flowing water of a river or the burning flame of a candle; like an ape, it is forever jumping about not ceasing for a moment." The Teaching of Buddha


Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:37 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 122 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.