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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Giving Birth to the Kitten [and Reincarnation; RFR] 
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Post Giving Birth to the Kitten [and Reincarnation; RFR]
I had this dream just over a week ago:-

'I discover that I am pregnant. My friend's baby has in some mysterious way been transferred to my body. I am at a hospital, and I accept that this is something that happens, if not often. I talk to a doctor, and then realise that I am about to give birth. I go into a theatre, although I am not particularly aware of my surroundings. My lower body is bare, and I wait. The baby just pops out, really easily and in a few seconds. There is no pain, no blood or afterbirth, and a baby girl arrives – I assume that it is a girl, as my friend's baby is. There is someone with me, who holds her – a doctor, nurse or midwife perhaps. I feel some doubt whether this is really happening, but remark to myself that if it were a dream, I would wake up. Then, the baby becomes a lovely tawny kitten. Neither I nor the medical staff seem surprised, but I notice that it has fairly large and slightly pointed ears. Someone remarks on the size of its ears. The kitten is running around immediately.'

What struck me later is that I give birth, but need my friend's pregnancy to trigger it. Maybe creativity in men depends upon the feminine in ways that we do not always acknowledge.

The kitten seemed to remind me afterwards of a lion cub, but it was clearly a kitten rather than a lion. It was very lively and curious. I don't think that my friend would be too happy if her baby became a kitten, but it isn't clear exactly how this affected her. She had her baby several weeks before my dream.

Patrick

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Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:36 pm
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Morning Sun / Angry Sun / Eye of Ra
Jan

Junis wrote:
If applied to Remo's theory of the logos ego / logos self and eros ego / eros self relationships the Avatar movie could open up to a rich and profound symbolism of the archetypical or rather psychophysical process which seems to be constellated on a collective level now.


I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this movie a little more. I didn't see the movie (yet).

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:42 pm
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:31 pm
Post 33 Wooden Eggs
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Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:01 am
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Quote:
Jan wrote:-

I instantly 'knew' that there were 33 eggs, and was kind of disapointed to count only 32. Then she told me that one egg had been taken by a 2 year old child, so there were 33 after all!


Earlier today I sent someone an EMail on a matter unrelated to my dream, in which I referred to the number of vertebrae in the human spine. I gave the number as 33, but first checked a number of books and websites for confirmation. Most gave 33, but one or two gave 32, and I pondered this before sending my EMail. Anatomy is not my strongest subject, but 33 as a sacred number in connection with the spine does crop up quite a lot. A number of meditations use the 33 vertebrae as a series of steps to descend into the body.

Best,

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:00 am
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My post above has been duplicated, so I have replaced it with a picture I like with a feline theme:-

Image

Anne Sudworth, 'The Path to Secret Places'
http://www.annesudworth.co.uk/enter.html

Best,

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


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Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:01 am
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Post 
Image

Image from Jean Noblet Tarot, restored by Jean-Claude Flornoy, 2007
http://www.tarot-history.com/

This happens to be my favourite Tarot deck. Count the spheres.

Best,

Patrick

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"A name is a prison, God is free."

Nikos Kazantzakis


Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:33 am
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Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:51 am
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Jan,

The Jean Noblet Tarot is dated around 1650, and is the oldest known Marseilles-type deck. There is a lot of information about it on the Flornoy website:-
http://www.tarot-history.com/

It really is extraordinarily expressive. Is this my kitten, with its pointed ears? Ouch!

Image

Don't worry, I think that all these synchronicities do connect to my dream.

Patrick

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Nikos Kazantzakis


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Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:14 am
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Post 33 and 34
Dear all,
Funny again this connection between La Maison-Dieu, ie the Tower of Babel, and a number close to 33.

A very few days ago, I had a look at a big book on magic squares, still thinking of the number 136, Jung-Haemmerli, Elijah-Enoch... It's too the sum of the 16 (XVI as Maison-Dieu) first integers, forming the magic square on Dürer's Melencholia Si. The book learnt me that the constant of the square, 34, was called the number of the Black Sun.
That's quite strange as the 2 words coded in atbash in the Bible are Babel and Kashdim (inhabitants of Babel), getting the gematrias 34 and 374 (= 11x34).
My inquiries about Babel and atbash led me to Wewelsburg's North Tower, where there is the symbol of the Black Sun.
One of the book that led me to the discovery of Jung's life pattern was a fantastic story about a kernos with 34 holes, having magic powers, inspired by the Kernos of Milia with its 33+1 holes on the periphery :

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Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:43 am
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Post My dream of the birth of the six kittens
Patrick, Jan, All

I think that Patrick's dream is somehow connected to my thread about Marie-Louise von Franz' reincarnation.

As you perhaps remember, I was not able to go on with the interpretation after the following:

Quote:
1st continuation of the BCI with MLvF

In the afternoon I felt that I should go on with the BCI. I went back to her on the stretcher. I saw now very clearly that the object coming out of her heart was an obelisk with the ben ben stone at its upper end. It seemed that it became longer and longer, some meters perhaps. Suddenly I realized that I hovered in a horizontal position at its top, since I was able to hold the ben ben stone with my hands, of course the "ghost hands." Today, after the above UFO dream with Remo Ra Roth I realize that these hands are also God's hands. [To all this see also
http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=872 ]


I learned just to wait and have a look what happens without any will in or around me. Then, Patrick posted the above dream.

The motif I was pondering about was the one of flying or hovering. I knew that it must have to do with the transmutation of objective psychic and/or bodily energy into what I call matter-psyche energy, the magic energy of the unus mundus, which, when consciously observed, transmutates back into objective psychic energy and/or bodily/physical energy of higher order [In the unconscious case UFO/Alien phenomena happen]. Thus, hovering has something to do with the magic twin process.

What I did not know was what should be observed. For a long time I thought that the “object” to be observed is these inner “images out of the belly.” Then, however, as a result of Patrick’s dream of the birth of the kittens I remembered a very old dream of Oct 2nd, 1985 that I never really had understood.

[And here I must again express how I am impressed by the synchronistic fabric with which many of our threads are tied together. It seems that Patrick’s dream was sent by the instance of the collective unconscious/unus mundus that possesses the preconscious knowledge.]


The dream of the birth of the six kittens of Oct 2nd, 1985
Under my bed six kittens have been born. One of them is rusty red. As an association I was reminded of a patient who had told me some days before that he was an outcast, since he had rusty red hair (this happens in Switzerland). With the kitten I associated Bastet (see above) as the symbol of pleasure and cheerfulness as the contrary to existential anxiety.

I hold this rusty red kitten in my hand, but it refuses to accept this.

Quote:
Association:
My being in the cast in Davos with 5 ½ to 8 ½ years.


Then, my first wife enters the scene.

Quote:
Her name has something to do with a lily. Many years after our divorce I realized that I projected the God-image of the lily into her
[One of the main symbols of Nicholas von Flue; equivalent to his Radbild (wheel image); see Zumthor’s chapel above, in which a metallic Radbild is suspended in the middle].
The lily is symbolically equivalent to the Seal of Solomon, since it possesses three leaves above and three leaves below.


She holds the kitten in her hands, and as a result it begins to oscillate.

The oscillation has the effect that the kitten is now able to fly and to hover.

End of the dream


Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:11 pm
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Post Homo Luminous Seal / Rainbow Spine Circulatio
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Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:32 pm
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Post Interpretation of the dream, Part 1
All

When pondering about this dream I realize that there are so many connections to themes in other threads that I do not know if I can tie all this together. The most important symbols are the Hand of God or better of the Goddess, the Kundalini process (or its contrary from above to below, as I propose it), the strange information in the MLvF thread ( http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#9038 ) that my name is now Remo Ra Roth (together with the "ghost hand" (or specter's hand, or phantom's hand), etc.

But let us begin with the beginning of the dream:

It is obvious that the dream that I dreamed 24 years ago has to do with the God-image of the Seal of Solomon (or Nicholas von Flue's Radbild, which symbolizes the background of what we call the unus mundus, the unified world behind or even beyond the split into the physical world and the objective psychic world of Carl Jung, which seems also to be connected to the Beyond, to the otherworld.

This is shown by the birth of six kittens, and by the name of my ex-wife, the lily = Seal = wheel image of Nicholas.

The dream is in a context with a dream of my “consecration” into the life of a Sufi shaman (of May 30, 1985), and with a dream of Nov 18, 1985 about a device, which is able to radiate rays (today I think that it is a radioactive radiation) and this way has the effect that an oscillation in my chest begins (as in the above dream).

The funny thing is that all these dreams have to do with homosexuality, though with more than 66 years I am sure that I do not have such a tendency concretely. I, however, had always very good relationships with homosexuals. Today, I think that they are not allowed to have a sexual relationship with earthy women, since they have the task of the coniunctio with the world soul. Further, they are also outcasts, as I am as the limping Christian devil (who has however much more to do with Pan, the cosmic God and, as Jan wrote in another thread, is a symbolic equivalent to the world soul).

Also with the rusty red kitten the outcast is constellated. In some way, we all in the Unus Mundus forum are outcasts or far-outers. We all had experiences that are not at all “mainstream.” This is why I think that we belong to some sort of a “spearhead” of a new sort of humans, who have to deal with incredibly “crazy” phenomena. The latter try to show us a new worldview, though it is very difficult to understand the symbolism of them.

As long as I hold the kitten in my hand, something is wrong, and perhaps it is even dangerous. I think that this motif means that I am not allowed to identify with the magical force of this hand. Then, however, the “lily,” a symbol of the otherworld, the unus Mundus and its ruler, the world soul, has the kitten in its/Her hands, the oscillation begins. Here the hand of God or of the Goddess comes in, which is the theme of the thread http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=872 .

Thus, meant is the “ghost’s hand” (or phantom hand; of specter’s hand). I mentioned it in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#9010 , in a post that answered one of Suzanne. I talked there (perhaps for the first time) of my “vegetative hand,” and I also showed an image of Ganesha with his four arms. This phantom hand seems to be absolutely decisive in the process described here.

The dream seems to tell us that not only inner vision is meant when I talk about the observation of the spontaneous incarnations of the world soul. It shows that all this has also to do with strange oscillating phenomena, with which we should deal with the help of God’s hands, with the phantom hands.

Very weird, I know. In the next post I will amplify oscillation.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Interpretation of the dream, Part 1
Remo Roth wrote:
The dream seems to tell us that not only inner vision is meant when I talk about the observation of the spontaneous incarnations of the world soul. It shows that all this has also to do with strange oscillating phenomena, with which we should deal with the help of God’s hands, with the phantom hands.


In 2006 in http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... heart#2712 I wrote about oscillation phenomena in the heart region.

I insert the few posts here:

Quote:
Sanella / Bentov's Aorta Wave and the alleged Schizophrenia
I'd like to deal a little more with the following quote from http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#2452

Shivering, in general terms: oscillation, is always the beginning of this process. It means that the transformation process has begun. I know these sensations very well. In my case it was however much more in the region of the heart. First I was shocked since I thought that I have a tachykardia. Then I remembered a book by L. Sanella, the first physician who discovered such processes. His book has the title Kundalini - Psychosis or Transcendence?, San Francisco, 1976. There his co-author Itzhak Bentov writes pp. 71-95 that the heart/aorta system produces a standig wave (German: Stehende Welle) of 7 Hz in the human sceleton. In your case this wave seems to be transported to the head.


Bentov shows empirically (they tested people in meditation) that such a standing wave in the aorta belongs to a deep meditative state. [The strange fact is that this standing wave has more or less the same frequency as the today famous Schuman resonance, 7.5 Hz]. He shows then that this oscillation can also emerge spontaneously. It is what I experienced earlier as such oscillations in my heart region. Bentov says that this is a spontaneous "Kundalini reaction," which compensates too much stress ! In these reactions a spontaneous release of stress is taking place. Thus, the body reacts on this stress with these oscillations, rhythms, ie in general with a frequency symbolism. Bentov adds that we should understand such symptoms as natural and positive signs that the time for meditation is ripe. First, we react however with panic, and the psychological problems [I would say the psychophysical problem] connected to such states, "may mimic schizophrenia, and be diagnosed as such by the physician." Then the danger arises that Neuroleptica are given, which however can transform these symptoms into a real schizophrenia. [The latter is my conclusion; I discussed this once with Marie-Louise von Franz, who agreed to my hypothesis conveyed to my by a very impressing dream.]

Remo


Quote:
The Schumann Resonance and the Observation of Evolution
Bentov is further convinced that this standing aorta wave is connected to the above mentioned Schumann resonance of the earth (a standing wave in the atmosphere of the earth). Since the latter has a frequency a little higher than the one in the aorta, the latter is "swallowed" by the former, ie it gets the same frequency -- the so-called rhythm entrainment. Like this the aorta oscillates exactly like the Schumann resonance of the planet earth.

It seems that the Schumann wave underlies so-called microfluctuations. Bentov quotes then an article of an R. Becker, (Electromagnetic Forces and Life Processes, which seems to state that these fluctuations are the cause of the evolution, and especially of the evolution of the Central Nervous System (which is an electromagnetic system). Thus, the linking with the Schumann wave in these states of deep meditation could also contribute to a further evolution of the nervous system. And he concludes that such an evolutionary quantum leap could be "an increased awareness of the self [RFR: in our language, the ego] as a part of a much larger system."

Like this we are back to the unus mundus. If we accept that behind or beyond physics, here especially behind the electromagnetic force -- which in modern theories is combined with the radioactive force, the so-called electro-weak force -- there exists a deeper level, the psychophysical reality, the Schumann wave and the corresponding aorta wave are themselves connected to the unus mundus. Then we could say that with the help of these oscillations we could perhaps percept changes in the unus mundus, ie acausal, indeterministic incarnation phenomena.

Here, however the vegetative nervous system and the Eros ego comes in. When we try to bring down this standing wave into the belly -- what I always try when I experience such oscillations in my chest -- we can transform it into inner corporeally sensated images, and these inner images, which arise spontaneously, acausally, indeterministically, seem to coincide with a more conscious observation of the acausal changes in the unus mundus: Symbolic, deeply corporeally experienced images instead of the oscillations.

Remo


Kristin answered:

Quote:
the paranormal & infrasonic waves
Remo

In regard to the important information you post above on this new thread, it seemed to me that the following idea, found in the link below, is somehow relevant.

It has been postulated recently that "ghosts" may appear due to the phenomenon of infrasonic/infrared 'waves'. I am thinking of how the oscillation of waves at low levels can produce effects in the body, and, apparently, in 'other' bodies, possibly bringing them into view on the third dimenstional plane. UFO's also react, as we discuss elsewhere, to low level vibrations, be they caused by the planet itself (via ley lines, seismic rifts, deep water flow, etc.), nuclear facilities, military installation induced (for 'defense' purposes, so they say...) subsonic wave generation, etc. ... The idea that subsonic wave vibrations (below audible range) could be 'key' to the appearance of 'ghosts' or the paranormal into our world (and I might add, also possibly UFO's, so-called E.T's, even crop circles) gives one pause for thought. I post this information mainly due to what you postulate above, as follows:

Quote:
If we accept that behind or beyond physics, here especially behind the electromagnetic force -- which in modern theories is combined with the radioactive force, the so-called electro-weak force -- there exists a deeper level, the psychophysical reality, the Schumann wave and the corresponding aorta wave are themselves connected to the unus mundus. Then we could say that with the help of these oscillations we could perhaps perceive changes in the unus mundus, ie acausal, indeterministic incarnation phenomena [my emphasis].


Here is a link to the article I read:

http://www.thothweb.com/article3650.html

(trusting that with this post I have not caused too great a diversion from the flow of the new topic itself -regarding 'the Schumann Resonance and the Observation of Evolution' - . I had been waiting for the right moment when I should post this new speculation, and it seemed correct to leave it here for now - pls. place elsewhere if appropriate...thanks..)

Kristin

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:28 pm
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Post Dreams of Jan 10, 2010
Jan & All

Before I can answer your posts, I must tell you what I dreamed last night. I think that these dreams react on my posting of the other dream of the birth of the six kittens (as an amplification to Patrick's dream):

In the first dream I was in the country, in what we call the "Bergfrühling," the spring in the mountains:

Image

Imagine however a much greater density of the flowers, as follows:

Image

Such a scene is incredibly beautiful! I always have the deepest emotions when I enter such a meadow.

We picked the flowers, made bouquets and sold them.

It seems that the dream would like to tell me that I had touched the Eros Self, when I had combined my dream of the six kittens with Patrick's dream of the birth of the kitten.

There was however also a man, a physician I know, who is very intellectual. He tried to upset our plans. He did however not succeed.

Of course, demonstrated is the conflict between the Logos ego and the Eros ego.

Then I slept in again and had two or three dreams, in which I heard music. In the one that I remember most there was a very specific rhythm. I liked it very much, and I even became this music, and especially this rhythm.

The aspect of the rhythm is important, since in this thread I describe also the oscillation in my chest, and would like to interpret it.

It seems that I was in the Eros ego; thus I do not know, if I was dreaming or in the altered wake state of the Eros.

Then I woke up into the Logos ego. I realized that this rhythm was created by my heart beat! Da-daa, pause, da-daa, pause. Something like this.

Thus, my heart beat had become my inner rhythm. Or better: I had become my heart beat.

I do not yet know, how this beat could belong to the oscillation phenomenon. I feel that there is some progress. It seems that the oscillation of the "Logos heart," of the CNS (central nervous system) aspect of the heart, had transformed into the Eros aspect of the heart. And that this goes together with music with this specific beat. Of course I am reminded of the sphere music, which, according to the Pythagoreans, belongs to the creation of the world, or to its recreation.

Perhaps to reincarnation?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:38 am
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Post The cat on by belly
By all this I am reminded of a very moving experience I described in July 2007 in

http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#5311

Quote:
The Newest Development
This morning (July 30, 2007) I entered a BCI, which means that first with some exercises I try to come down into the belly, most likely the svadhisthana, the watery chakra (2nd chakra). I first slept in, and then woke up – however into the Eros ego. This is a completely different state than the Logos ego. One feels and even senses it physically that the consciousness is in the belly and not in the brain anymore. I saw and sensed a black cat lying on my belly up to the heart. [Association: I had once a black Italian cat (See association of dream in Pari, Italy below), which I loved very much. It slept always in my bed, since it liked the warmth of my body.] It purred, thus was very content. All this was as real as ‘normal’ reality is. I even sensed the cat's claws, which scratched me softly. Only after some time ‘I’ switched into my Logos ego, and the cat disappeared. [See similar experiences of Castaneda with Don Juan Matus]

I would say that the black Italian cat is a further development of the ‘inner U.F.O.' ‘Cat’ means for me (according to MLvF) ‘being the center of the world.’ Thus the result of the BCI tells me that in this moment I became the center of the world. This is what I guess for some time now: Since the unus mundus is what I call ‘psychophysically nonlocal,’ what happens in me has (of course only in the extremest case) happened in the whole universe. This is exactly what Luria called the tikkun, and of what Carl Jung said:

Quote:
'Here [in Luria’s tikkun] the thought emerges for the first time that man must help God to repair the damage wrought by the Creation. For the first time man’s cosmic responsibility is acknowledged.” [Letters, volume 2, p. 155]


And already in 1928 he guessed that this process happens as follows:

Quote:
“So far as I can grasp the nature of the collective unconscious [RFR: the unus mundus], it seems to me like an omnipresent continuum, an unextended Everywhere. That is to say, when something happens here at point A which touches upon or affects the collective unconscious [RFR: the unus mundus], it has happened everywhere.“ [Letters, vol. 1, p. 58]


The dream in Pari, where I visited David Peat's Pari Center for new Learning, and also Veronica Goodchild (a Jungian analyst, who herself experienced an UFO encounter) was as follows:

Quote:
Dream of the round UFO (disc or sphere) which in my heart chakra transforms into a square (cube?) and then back to a sphere:

A round U.F.O. (circular or spherical?) entered my heart chakra and transformed there into a square (or a cube?). In hovering back into the sky it re-transformed into a disc or a sphere. The transformation into a square means ‘bringing down to earth,’ realizing things. The re-transformation into a sphere means to realize the experience in the mind = to construct a consistent theory.


Thus, my BCI of today and the dream together mean the following: Developing the 'inner UFO' could lead to a situation in which some very few humans could change the situation in the world.

I must say, this is the last hope I have for the survival of mankind.



Patrick, I think that all this helps you to interpret your dream.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:53 am
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Post The Cat as the Center of the World
In Das Weibliche im Märchen (Female in Fairytales?), on p. 185, at the beginning of the fifth part (of five) of Chapter 7, Marie-Louise von Franz tells us that the cat compensates the existential anxiety of people who did not have enough mother's love (as I did in the cast in Davos). As I wrote above, with the symbol of Bastet it symbolizes thus pleasure and cheerfulness. Then, she goes on and writes that the cat is a princess. One is honored if one is allowed to give her milk !!!

In my completion this means also that
the cat is the center of the world.


Combined with the above this means that the cat is the symbol of Carl Jung's point A situation or of the tikkun of Isaak Luria.

Remo

If someone possesses the English translation, please post this section.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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I am just reflecting upon your cat dreams and experiences, Remo. In my dream, I actually gave birth to a human baby, which became a kitten. I would connect this with a change from Logos ego to Eros ego - I think that I was back in my own house when the kitten was around, so maybe this is suggesting an Eros state.

Oddly enough, I have several times had dreams about my friend who had the baby, involving cats. I think that she changed into one, and sometimes cats were present. She is not particularly drawn to cats. My own cat Tasha, dead for about 10 years, sometimes puts in an appearance.

Patrick

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Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:25 pm
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Patrick Booker wrote:
I am just reflecting upon your cat dreams and experiences, Remo. In my dream, I actually gave birth to a human baby, which became a kitten. I would connect this with a change from Logos ego to Eros ego - I think that I was back in my own house when the kitten was around, so maybe this is suggesting an Eros state.


Patrick,

I know that you gave birth to a human baby. However, the important aspect in dreams the development. Thus, your baby is human as well as a kitten. I changed the title, since like this it is more significant. But if you wish, I can change the title back.

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:20 pm
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The new title is fine with me, Remo. That wasn't why I mentioned it. It just struck me that my alternation of cat/human baby was similar to your cat/disappearance change.

Best,

Patrick

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Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:28 pm
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Post The Cat
Not sure if I got the correct section out of MLvF's The Feminine in Fairy Tales but from my copy (English Revised Edition) p.205-206

Quote:
... At the back of her too high-up attitude, this dreamer sufferred from existential fear, which is perhaps one of the most basic where a child has not received enough maternal love. It is a deep, nervous feeling of insecurity about everything, and, in one way, the cat would be compensatory, for it is, in a natural way, egotistical. One has only to think of the symbolism of the Egyptian cat goddess Bastet to see that, mythologically, the cat is a symbol for the enjoyment of life and gaiety, and therefore the exact opposite of existential fear. A cat walks into the room when hungry and meows and gets milk. The dog reacts more as we do and shows gratitude, but the cat is a princess. She behaves as though she were conferring an honor on you, giving you the privilege of serving her and giving her milk. Then she rubs herself against your leg and affords you the privilege of stroking her! That is so suggestive that naturally you bend down and humbly do so and feel very honored! When the cat has had enough, she walks out! She neither thanks you nor attaches herself to you. It does not matter who strokes the cat--what is important is that she gets the attention. The cat is therefore something absolutely divine and the right compensation for people who have existential fear. People who suffer from such fear should cultivate the idea that they are conferring an honor on others by coming into a room and "letting themselves be stroked." They should take this as a symbol, and then they would feel secure and would learn what everyone who has a negative mother complex must learn: to look after themselves with the recklessness of nature. The animal does not deplore things in an infantile way but just takes things in the way which suits it. It uses man and animal and everthing else for its own purposes, and that is the solution for that fear. In this woman's dream she is under the spell of her fear, and therefore she should love cats and meditate on what they mean.


It seems also relevant to mention that in MLvF's book, The Cat A Tale of Feminine Redemption, the Romanian fairy tale The Cat features a princess, who was cursed by "Mother of God", changing her form to and fro into a cat by performing somersaults. She married a fool/dumbling.

Best,


Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:10 am
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Post cats
And the cat, it is said, has 'nine lives', thus apparently "reincarnates" again and again (as Remo suggests, this may all be connected to the aspect of reincarnation). There is a song about this amazing attribute of the cat, which goes like this:

"the cat came back, the cat came back/ thought it was a goner/but the cat came back..."

In this context the word 'goner' means something that is/was thought to be 'finished', in other words 'over' or 'dead' and 'gone' (the word is pronounced like 'gone' but with an 'r' on the end...).

In my dreams lately, and only in the past month or so, seldom if ever before, over and over again my little grey cat, who died some years ago now, returns to my dreams! She comes in the role of a psychopomp, showing me something regarding the process of death and the aspect of dying -- that it is in fact a mere 'veil' that separates the worlds, that keeps us apart... I was going to post before on this matter, but it seems the perfect time appears on it's own! There are specifics in these dreams of course. If you wish I can post them at some point as well.. This little cat had the name "Lucy", or 'light'.

Cats do reside at the center. They do live IN eros ego mode, without the 'guilt' aspect that seems to manifest in dogs sometimes (who have seemingly taken this very human attribute right to heart) or so it seems. Sang, the piece you quote above is ultra instructive -- especially this information relates, in my mind, to the sense of the 'feral', that aspect of the wildness of the World Soul, to the non-sentimental aspect of 'love' I've written about before, and so forth. One is indeed at risk when one attempts to sentimentalize the cat, as it is completely 'unto' itself in such wondrous ways, it altogether encapsulates the strange and very particular non-emotionality of nature, which can be most cleansing for humans caught in the self-referentiality of today.

Cats have the 'IT' factor. The mystery is with them yet, and they are 'with' the Mystery!


great discussion Remo and Patrick ---

Kristin

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Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:04 am
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Post Re: The Cat
Sang wrote:
Not sure if I got the correct section out of MLvF's The Feminine in Fairy Tales but from my copy (English Revised Edition) p.205-206


Sang

Thanks a lot. Yes, this is exactly the section I referred to. It is perfect, also in English.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:49 am
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Post Re: The Cat
Sang wrote:
It seems also relevant to mention that in MLvF's book, The Cat A Tale of Feminine Redemption, the Romanian fairy tale The Cat features a princess, who was cursed by "Mother of God", changing her form to and fro into a cat by performing somersaults. She married a fool/dumbling.


Sang,

Reminds me of course of the somersaults of Marie-Louise von Franz in my dream from Dec 18, 2009. See http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#9060

Remo Roth wrote:
MLvF's Reincarnation?
Some people may ask themselves why I write that Marie-Louise von Franz had reincarnated. As you know, I am convinced today that the vegetative nervous system (VNS) is psychophysically nonlocal. This means that the VNS is connected to the unus mundus/Beyond. If an incarnation happens there -- and every singular acausal quantum leap, like the appearance of the octahedron/pyramid/obelisk out of MLvF's heart is such an incarnation in the Beyond -- at the same time also a reincarnation into the VNS of the observing human has taken place. This I call the reincarnation of the deceased into a specific human.

PS: This is perhaps why I dreamed this night of MLvF: She lied on a bed, but not the death bed anymore. Then, very surprisingly to my, she began to make saltos [somersaults] with her body. This was very funny. I think that this means also a revitalization.


Thanks for the amplification.

Interesting that also the fool comes in here. See http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#9262 . This seems to confirm that the Eros ego belongs together with being (in) the center of the world. Further, it is the motif of the axis mundi or of the ombelico del mondo (see http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... ight=#5486 ), which belongs to the initiation of the shaman.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:41 am
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Post Re: cats
kristin wrote:
In my dreams lately, and only in the past month or so, seldom if ever before, over and over again my little grey cat, who died some years ago now, returns to my dreams! She comes in the role of a psychopomp, showing me something regarding the process of death and the aspect of dying -- that it is in fact a mere 'veil' that separates the worlds, that keeps us apart... I was going to post before on this matter, but it seems the perfect time appears on it's own! There are specifics in these dreams of course. If you wish I can post them at some point as well.. This little cat had the name "Lucy", or 'light'.


Yes, Kristin, please post the dreams (if possible) and your comments. It seems that the cat is constellated, and that in some way tries to unify our "life threads."

Remo

PS: As much as I know, the book mentioned above by Sang is the last of MLvF. I did not read it yet.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:56 am
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Remo,
Until you mentioned it above, I did not quite make the connection to your dream in December of MLvF about 'saltos'... Amazing connections :shock:

Patrick,
I have recently finished reading some of the books you'd recommended by Peter Kingsley; Reality and In The Dark Places of Wisdom. Thank you for the recommendation.

And Remo, considering your recent name change in your dream to Remo 'Ra' Roth, I thought perhaps the honorary title of Oulios, and Pholarchos, would work for you too! The title also held by Parmenides... Kingsley talks about meanings of these titles in his books I just mentioned. On p 57 of his book In The Dark Places of Wisdom, he says:

Quote:
]"Oulios was the name of someone dedicated to the god Apollo--to Apollo Oulios as he was sometimes called....it contains delightful ambiguity. Originally it meant 'deadly,' 'destructive', 'cruel': every god has his destructive side. But Greeks also explained it another way, as meaning 'he who makes whole'. That, in a word, is Apollo--the destroyer who heals, the healer who destroys."


'Pholarchos', I believe means 'lord of the lair', if I remember correctly. The sick came to them, usually as last resort and the healers, the "lord(s) of the lair" led them to the dark cave [home of Apollo] for "Incubation", for them to just lie there, for days--this reminded me of your BCI Remo--until they received visions, dreams, and the healing.

Cheers!

ps. Here's quote from MLvF's book The Cat: A Tale of Feminine Redepmption about somersault from p.111

Quote:
Very often in fairy tales, a somersault is a way to transform. It is also a ritual of resurrectin, for instance at the Egyptian funerals. You find in the tombs paintings of dwarfs turning somersaults, doing all sorts of gymnastics but especially somersaults, and that was to help the resurrection of the king. The idea is that resurrection is a kind of somersault. You go down and then you come up again in a new form. It might also have to do with the fact that, as you know, the baby in the mother's womb, if it is born normally, often makes a somersault before birth and comes out head first. So the somersault can denote a birth process, and possibly the observation of this fact led the Egyptians to have clowns and clowning dwarfs--probably they were bushmen prisoners really--do somersaults along the route of the funeral procession of the king, which according to the texts was meant to support the king's resurrection process.


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