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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Jung's Hand 
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Post Jung's Hand
Here it goes,

I am shown an image of Jung's hand print. But not a typical hand print. It is of the side of his right hand or pinky side to be specific. The same type of print people sometimes make to create a faux baby foot print. I am told what is special about his print is that there is a little finger print imbedded in the image. I am told that Jung and I have the same type print which surprises me.

I am in a room and on the other side is a child who is sick in a bed. I walk over to him and place my hand on his torso and I say, "I heal you in the name of Christ!" I say it quite emphatically as if I really believe it, yet at the same time it comes as a complete shock and surprise to hear such a thing come out of my mouth. Then I feel a strong energy and see colors flowing or leaving him, I believe a red or a black and it feels firey...end of dream.

I don't even know where to begin with this dream, so any amplification would be helpful. The second portion of the dream disturbed me, fearful that I'm still power possessed towards anything related towards healing...which brings up I guess a layman's opinion of mine. I've always felt that power possession and inflation are the result of trying to be more than what one is, or perhaps better stated of trying to be what one is not. Those who are...are. They don't try to be anything.

Thankful for any help.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:02 pm
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Post Re: Jung's Hand
Ryan wrote:
I don't even know where to begin with this dream, so any amplification would be helpful. The second portion of the dream disturbed me, fearful that I'm still power possessed towards anything related towards healing...which brings up I guess a layman's opinion of mine. I've always felt that power possession and inflation are the result of trying to be more than what one is, or perhaps better stated of trying to be what one is not. Those who are...are. They don't try to be anything.

Thankful for any help.

Ryan


Ryan,

I will reply to that later in the afternoon...

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Jung's Hand
Ryan wrote:
Here it goes,

I am shown an image of Jung's hand print. But not a typical hand print. It is of the side of his right hand or pinky side to be specific. The same type of print people sometimes make to create a faux baby foot print. I am told what is special about his print is that there is a little finger print imbedded in the image. I am told that Jung and I have the same type print which surprises me.

I am in a room and on the other side is a child who is sick in a bed. I walk over to him and place my hand on his torso and I say, "I heal you in the name of Christ!" I say it quite emphatically as if I really believe it, yet at the same time it comes as a complete shock and surprise to hear such a thing come out of my mouth. Then I feel a strong energy and see colors flowing or leaving him, I believe a red or a black and it feels firey...end of dream.

I don't even know where to begin with this dream, so any amplification would be helpful. The second portion of the dream disturbed me, fearful that I'm still power possessed towards anything related towards healing...which brings up I guess a layman's opinion of mine. I've always felt that power possession and inflation are the result of trying to be more than what one is, or perhaps better stated of trying to be what one is not. Those who are...are. They don't try to be anything.

Thankful for any help.

Ryan


Cher Ryan,

I will begin with a dream of mine I collected on the morning of the 29th:


Quote:
I woke up with a wonderful dream. At first I was in a sort of classroom in an ancient building. There were lots of adults sitting or moving. And I was wondering what I was doing there. Then I remembered that L., my main collaborator at the office, should have been giving a lecture and maybe he had done it for obviously people were just talking as happens at the end of a course or meeting. I was looking for L. but then remembered that I had nothing to do there anymore.

The classroom emptied and new people arrived. They were young adults and they asked me with a loving insistence if I would teach them today. I replied no because I had something else to do (but would come back).

I felt a bit confused about all this and was wondering about my job and how I was earning some money but then I remembered that all this had been settled and that I had a 'job' where I was paid to act as freely as possible according to my feelings/intuitions.

So I went out of the building. I had a strange rectangular blue 'case' suspended on my right shoulder. It was very light as if I was carrying 'spirit' in it. The day was warm and sunny. I was also holding something very important in my right hand. I remembered where I should go.

I walked up a slope in a small very old village. The view was superb. And then I reached the church. It was a very very old building, abandonned, partly open to the wind, but it was absolutely beautiful. It was overhanging a wide valley, and surrounded by a few cypress. It was a holy place, I could feel its vibrations, and it was not related to any specific religion.

And I knew I would like to be burried there when the time came. I felt pure bliss at the sight.

And also I felt a pulsation in my right hand. There was something in it but it was also empty. It was the link between my love and me and I could feel her though she was far away at the moment...


I will not comment all the aspects of this dream. I could have edited it but I guess the old church has to stay open to the winds now.

I will just hint at a few things as they relate to why I am posting now.

1) The classroom emptied and new people arrived. They were young adults and they asked me with a loving insistence if I would teach them today.
It seems this will be one of my 'jobs' from now on.

2) I had a strange rectangular blue 'case' suspended on my right shoulder. It was very light as if I was carrying 'spirit' in it.
We did some research and it seems that the rectangular 'case' is a shaman's bag as referred to in many traditions. Carrying it on the right I will take as carrying it consciously, that is to say knowing and accepting who I am.

Now to your dream, Ryan.
I have seen you in worse situations than this one.


Quote:
I've always felt that power possession and inflation are the result of trying to be more than what one is, or perhaps better stated of trying to be what one is not. Those who are...are. They don't try to be anything.


Power possession and inflation are the fruit of unconsciousness. If you wonder about power then you are not unconscious, even if you don't see all the answers as you would intellectually like. Asking the proper questions in honesty is the best attitude ever.

Those who are, are, you say. Sure enough but they cannot be without being conscious of, that is to say accept, who they are. And as far as I know, it is the most difficult part.

The Unus Mundus forums have two main interests: one is to help Remo develop a 'mad enough theory' (it's his job) and confront his ideas with others', the second is to offer people who try accept who they are the experience of others as 'mad' or 'madder' than they are, so that they can see they are not mad at all (:D).

In 1993 (if I remember well) I had the following dream:

'I went into a typical parisian café. There were people talking at the bar with the owner. I heard they were saying that Jung was half a technician and half a shaman. Then the barman told the others as he saw me: 'Oh! this is Roger Jung!'

the point is that one cannot be half a shaman. So it showed I had a long walk waiting for me... it took me years to understand that dream.

So what are you shown in your dream? You have the same hand print as Jung. Fine. It's the right hand, so something about your hands is getting conscious. But then Jung was not a conscious healer, as far as I know. Something else is added about it: the little finger part.
Little finger, you see... there is nothing big in it, and the little finger is certainly not the most used finger either, it's almost just a 'side' one. I guess we have a clue there: something about humility and 'uselessness'.

So you are surprised. That's a good reaction. If you were too sure that would mean a lack of questionning, opening the way to unconsciousness.

So now you are confronted with a situation where you have to put into practice something you feel strongly but daren't. And you just do it. And once again you are surprised and innocent and it works. You do it in a spontaneous and innocent way...

Well maybe all this has to be considered at first as refers to yourself. Maybe it shows you you have healed yourself. But then...

I am going to tell you (very briefly) how it all happened to me...

For years I had been searching, wondering, exploring my depths in wonder and awe. For years i had been a child of Jung's and ended imprisoned with the Logos Self. (All this means suffering of course). But then i could feel there was something else, deeper, different...

And then one day I eventually accepted who I am, my difference, and what the bright know-it-alls of official psychiatry - who have never found a soul under their bistoury - would call a 'schizophrenic' streak (which of course is the way they 'diagnose' what they cannot understand, including thousand years of tradition).

From that instant on I simply discovered I could 'heal', not because I wanted it, but as a side-effect of entering the Eros world and letting the Eros ego and self merge. (See my spider dream).

The main point is here: you do not heal. It happens through you. You are not a super-hero endowed with super powers. You are just a channel circulating some strange energy at the service of... the World Soul... And each time you just marvel for what happens is never intended and is a side-effects to the main aspect: circulating the energy.

You have a great easiness to enter the Eros world. At one time I was very worried about you for I felt you had great difficulties to find the way back. But then i had no way to help you and just trusted the WS and your own capacities, sending you 'my' love.

Now, if you feel your dream goes farther than healing yourself, there is only one way to know... But you must rid yourself of your doubts and fears first, accept facts for what they are and just be...

Happy new year!


Love

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Last edited by Roger Faglin on Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:56 pm
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Post 
Thank you very much Roger,

Today is a difficult day to write, so I will save it for 2007. Thank you again for all you shared in your reply and I too wish you a

Very Happy New Year!

Love,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:01 pm
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Post 
Hello folks,

What Roger was saying about being endowed with super powers is true. Many psychics seem to believe that 'God' gave them this gift, and then they become full of themselves and go on an ego-trip. While intuition, a sense like all others, can be considered a gift, one must remember to not let the illusion of the Ego get in the way.

Telepathy can be said to work in the same way I suppose. If I share the same thought as someone else, that does not mean I am sending them the thought or that they are sending it to me. It's the synchronicity behind it that gives it power. The power is through love and recognition that we are One. Hence Love and Communication, Infinity and Communication. Communication allows us the ability to act as One.

Love,
Michael

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Post 
Michael wrote:
Hello folks,

What Roger was saying about being endowed with super powers is true. Many psychics seem to believe that 'God' gave them this gift, and then they become full of themselves and go on an ego-trip. While intuition, a sense like all others, can be considered a gift, one must remember to not let the illusion of the Ego get in the way.

Telepathy can be said to work in the same way I suppose. If I share the same thought as someone else, that does not mean I am sending them the thought or that they are sending it to me. It's the synchronicity behind it that gives it power. The power is through love and recognition that we are One. Hence Love and Communication, Infinity and Communication. Communication allows us the ability to act as One.

Love,
Michael


OK, tomorrow, the first day of the new year, I will open a new thread about all this...

Love

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:01 pm
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Roger,

I know this will be a subject of a new thread, but I just wanted to comment briefly on what you and Michael pointed out. In opening up to the eros consciousness, I can clearly say, (though I wouldn't have said it while I was going through it), that I was in some sense 'taking credit' for opening up to it. It was only yesterday, after reading your post that I began to appreciate what it means to be 'a channel'. And I think for the first time, what it might mean to be 'empty'.

That said, there are still "doubts and fears". Too, I would say that I don't have much experience with the energy that runs through me or that surround us and feel I don't have a very deep relationship to it.

Also, the Logos world and the Eros world seem two worlds apart from each other, so I have been afraid to re-enter the eros world fully since I left. I have had moments, but mostly timid steps. I appreciate all that you had to say about letting feelings and intuitions go and following impulses and I have always felt the Unus Mundus Forum to be a sacred space to do that.

I also like what you said about "collecting dreams". I realized at one point, I treat dreams like possessions. I believe they are treasures, but I mistook them for 'MY' Treasures. And, as personal as dreams can be, since joining the forum I appreciate how collective they can be as a part of what Michael said about Communication and acting as one...which as far as I can see is a cooperative participation, though not a blind following.

I am quite slow, so I am still digesting many aspects of what you wrote about. Thank you again for such a full and personal response. And Thank you Michael for pointing out a very important aspect of any journey.

Love,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:13 pm
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Post 
My friends,

actually I did not open a new thread but moved this one to 'Healing with help from out of the Unus Mundus'.

Maybe you've wondered about the slightly tortured title for this forum. Remo and I wanted a title that really expressed the depth of things so we dropped a little English purity!


Ryan you wrote:

Quote:
after reading your post that I began to appreciate what it means to be 'a channel'. And I think for the first time, what it might mean to be 'empty'.


Being empty means to be full. i know this sounds as a Chinese saying, but it is also a fact. From the instant on you are 'empty' then the channel you are is filled up with a flow that finds its way through you.

Quote:
That said, there are still "doubts and fears". Too, I would say that I don't have much experience with the energy that runs through me or that surround us and feel I don't have a very deep relationship to it.

Well, you'll find somewhere else on the forum interesting exchanges about fear and doubts. What i can say is that when the time is ripe things happen if you let them be. If you already can feel the energy, then just go on feeling it. It will find its way and you will 'learn'. Always marvel!

Quote:
Also, the Logos world and the Eros world seem two worlds apart from each other, so I have been afraid to re-enter the eros world fully since I left. I have had moments, but mostly timid steps. I appreciate all that you had to say about letting feelings and intuitions go and following impulses and I have always felt the Unus Mundus Forum to be a sacred space to do that.

There can be a strange obstacle. Will is this obstacle. It should be considered as a propelling tool or ... arse-kicking... but no more. You make the decision to go 'there' (or to accept being there) AND to drop any will from that moment on till you come back. Thus the Logos Ego is relayed by the (observing) Eros Ego meeting the Eros Self.

Isn't it interesting to note that as the relation between the Logos ego and Self has been defined as dialectical and somewhat in opposition ('Any progress from the Self is a to be felt as a failure from the ego'. Jung said something like that) the relation between the Eros ego and Self is unitary and procreative?

Love
Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Last edited by Roger Faglin on Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:25 pm
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Ryan wrote:
Thank you again for such a full and personal response.
Ryan



The point is that each of us has to find her/his special, personal, way; how to go far enough, but not to far at one moment, because each time it is different, new.

I remember a dream that happened to me at the time I was receiving people for their dreams. It was dark and i had gone down very deep. The soil was fissured and I could see the fire of hell through the cracks. I was a shaman and i had to take special steps in a strange dance. I knew that if i put my foot at the wrong place I would fall down and never come back. I had no way to know which step was the right one. I was doing it to 'help' one the women that came to me. So i did it and came back. I woke up like suffocating and very hot...

:D :D

Roger
Image

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:52 pm
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Post 
:shock:

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:25 pm
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Michael wrote:
Hello folks,

What Roger was saying about being endowed with super powers is true. Many psychics seem to believe that 'God' gave them this gift, and then they become full of themselves and go on an ego-trip. While intuition, a sense like all others, can be considered a gift, one must remember to not let the illusion of the Ego get in the way.

Michael


Michael,

i guess there comes Remo and his (amazing) work, his definition of modern mysticism, his reactualisation on the hermetic unio corporalis, his BCI as a 'structural' example of the way to relate to the World Soul (aka Eros Self), and his formulation of the twin process.

The main difference, and it's a qualitative leap, between psychic pretentions and modern shamanism is the total absence of power, or the total presence of love.

Michael wrote:
Telepathy can be said to work in the same way I suppose. If I share the same thought as someone else, that does not mean I am sending them the thought or that they are sending it to me. It's the synchronicity behind it that gives it power. The power is through love and recognition that we are One. Hence Love and Communication, Infinity and Communication. Communication allows us the ability to act as One.

Love,
Michael


Yes... when you say 'telepathy' people imagine some kind of inner phone line :)

As far as I know, what you say is closer to a good description of the phenomenon. 'Telepathy' is (unwilled) relatedness through the Unus Mundus.

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Last edited by Roger Faglin on Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:51 pm
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Ryan wrote:
:shock:

Ryan


:shock: ? Well, i don't know... I don't think we can really escape fate. So it's better to go with it... Even if it involves suffering and fears and the lot...


Roger
Image

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:55 pm
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Post questions
Hi all

HaPpY NeW YeaR to all of you.

Thank you so much for this very interesting discussion about Ryan's dream. Special thanks to Roger for his very personal statements. I know myself that in connection with all these things we can only answer with the help of our personal (so-called mad or crazy) experiences.

Ryan

I have two questions since I do not understand your English:

1st: What is a "pinky side" ?

2nd: What dou you mean with "a faux baby foot print"?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:09 pm
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Glad to see you again Remo, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO!!!

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:16 pm
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Roger Faglin wrote:
I remember a dream that happened to me at the time I was receiving people for their dreams. It was dark and i had gone down very deep. The soil was fissured and I could see the fire of hell through the cracks. I was a shaman and i had to take special steps in a strange dance. I knew that if i put my foot at the wrong place I would fall down and never come back. I had no way to know which step was the right one. I was doing it to 'help' one the women that came to me. So i did it and came back. I woke up like suffocating and very hot...


Roger

I guess that it is the introverted feeling function, which tells us which step is right, and which one is wrong. As long as I did not realize this, I always broke my bones ...

The shaman is always close to what Christians call the hell. What I call the matter-psyche can be a very healing energy, but also a very destroying one. If this energy is good or evil depends, as you say, only on the difference between a will-possession (perverted Logos ego) and the willessness of the Eros ego we have to consciously enter. This is also what I try to describe in the case of Carl Jung in my newest contributions in my WebSite, ie in The Holy Wedding; see expecially http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... _e.htm#596 .

Remo[i]

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:18 pm
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Post My First Baby Step
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I made it with the right side of my hand and in the dream the finger print imbedded would be just above the heel.

This is a faux baby foot print. It is usually made by kids on a chalk board after their or 'my' hands get covered in chalk drawing or writing on the board in the classroom....(insert sound and image of Ryan's hand slapping his forehead right now! :D )

The pinky is slang for the little finger as Roger explained, why it's called pinky I have no idea. I have no idea why it might be pink, unless it is a feminine finger or a mixture of red and white? Random Guesses.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:31 pm
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Quote:
Well, i don't know... I don't think we can really escape fate. So it's better to go with it... Even if it involves suffering and fears and the lot...


I agree.

Quote:
('Any progress from the Self is a to be felt as a failure from the ego'. Jung said something like that) the relation between the Eros ego and Self is unitary and procreative?


The last couple of months I felt more as Jung expressed it...though I had it quite clear that I was no where near Eros or the Eros Self.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:35 pm
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Ryan wrote:
The last couple of months I felt more as Jung expressed it...though I had it quite clear that I was no where near Eros or the Eros Self.

Ryan


Well, no worry. Take things as they come... :wink:

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:49 pm
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Michael wrote:
Telepathy can be said to work in the same way I suppose. If I share the same thought as someone else, that does not mean I am sending them the thought or that they are sending it to me. It's the synchronicity behind it that gives it power. The power is through love and recognition that we are One. Hence Love and Communication, Infinity and Communication. Communication allows us the ability to act as One.


Michael

Yes, you are right. I guess that we have to introduce a different time and space concept. The unus mundus is timeless and spaceless. Thus we can also say that one point is the same as the whole universe, and that time is eternity. This is why I call this world also the always/everywhere.

If we approach this world of the unus mundus, we melt with the surrounding and we become somehow timeless, or at least the time measure interval dilates: The tic toc becomes a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiic tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooc.

In this world we do not "send" anymore, since we become in some way the unus mundus itself. We are here in point A and everywhere. I call this state the psychophysical nonlocality. If we have such a space concept, we can understand what happens in telepathy. The same is true for the time concept: If we approach eternity we become able to have precognitions (since in eternity everything what we see as two different events is the same, at the same time).

Since we approach like this the time- and spaceless Beyond (= unus mundus), we approach also the spirits (or better: the subtle bodies) of the deceased. It seems further that with the help of such a procedure some specific people can put them out of their misery. Perhaps like this these humans can take away the negative karma in this world, produced by all these horrible humans like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Saddam -- and Bush (During the Iraq war up until now almost 200'000 innocent people were killed).

Let's hope so !!! It seems to be the only way of how the misery of this world could be overcome.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:04 am
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Post Re: Jung's Hand
Ryan wrote:
Here it goes,

I am shown an image of Jung's hand print. But not a typical hand print. It is of the side of his right hand or pinky side to be specific. The same type of print people sometimes make to create a faux baby foot print. I am told what is special about his print is that there is a little finger print imbedded in the image. I am told that Jung and I have the same type print which surprises me.

I am in a room and on the other side is a child who is sick in a bed. I walk over to him and place my hand on his torso and I say, "I heal you in the name of Christ!" I say it quite emphatically as if I really believe it, yet at the same time it comes as a complete shock and surprise to hear such a thing come out of my mouth. Then I feel a strong energy and see colors flowing or leaving him, I believe a red or a black and it feels firey...end of dream.


Ryan

I cannot interpret this dream in another way than that you have a great potential as a healer. But don't fall into an inflation!

"Hand" has in German to do with "Handlungsfähigkeit," which means "capacity to act." This is why I said the above. The important aspect of this "Handlungsfähigkeit" is the little finger. I guess it has to do with the "Däumling," the thumbling -- the stupid that I quote at the end of my posts. The thumbling is the real creative one.

Carl Jung has written about these figures in CW 9/I: The Psychology of the Child Archetype. The image below is the one on the original German edition.

Image

A very interesting aspect of the dream is the fact that it is Jung's hand. This means that you have to include Carl Jung's depth psychology in your healing work. I can only interprete this as the inclusion of dream interpretation in your future work as a healer.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:35 am
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Remo,

Quote:
But don't fall into an inflation!


I completely agree, I don't want to fall into to an inflation either. I've had enough of that, though I can completely see how it can sneak up on one, thus: Constant Vigilance!

Quote:
A very interesting aspect of the dream is the fact that it is Jung's hand. This means that you have to include Carl Jung's depth psychology in your healing work.


Since Last May, I have come to appreciate how little I have really experienced Jung, which I can say is completely different from just reading him. Which is to say, I am aware of how long the journey is.

Thank you,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:45 pm
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Ryan wrote:
Since Last May, I have come to appreciate how little I have really experienced Jung, which I can say is completely different from just reading him. Which is to say, I am aware of how long the journey is.

Thank you,

Ryan


Yes. but you are not on your own any more, Ryan...

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:52 pm
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Thank you Roger,

and everybody for that matter. I truely value the opportunity to discuss and share such 'useless' information and experiences.

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:55 pm
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Post Sleepy (One of the 7 Dwarves)
I have been excessively sleepy as of late, so I decide to try meditation or BCI. Usually I fall asleep and when I wake up there is usually an intense energy flowing through my body and it typically differs depending on where my hands are when I sleep. If my hands are near or on my kidneys, I feel the energy mostly in my legs. If my hands are on my chest, I feel the energy in my torso and head. I was curious if anyone had any thoughts or impressions about this.

It is usually in the just after waking state that I have contact with the energy that I don't have much experience with...I guess there is a relationship to sleep and eros consciousness or the meditative state required for healing.


Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:10 pm
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Post Re: Sleepy (One of the 7 Dwarves)
Ryan wrote:
I have been excessively sleepy as of late, so I decide to try meditation or BCI. Usually I fall asleep and when I wake up there is usually an intense energy flowing through my body and it typically differs depending on where my hands are when I sleep. If my hands are near or on my kidneys, I feel the energy mostly in my legs. If my hands are on my chest, I feel the energy in my torso and head. I was curious if anyone had any thoughts or impressions about this.

It is usually in the just after waking state that I have contact with the energy that I don't have much experience with...I guess there is a relationship to sleep and eros consciousness or the meditative state required for healing.


Ryan


Ryan,

what i can tell you is that when I try to enter Eros consciousness before falling asleep my dreams come from there and now more and more often I stay in a sort of intermediate state/realm where... say.. 'things' happen (but I won't talk of that now) . I guess what you are describing belongs to the same paradigm.
Obviously, for you, at the moment, yes you can feel the 'energy' when you awake due to your entering the Eros world when you fall asleep.
I guess it gives you a hint at what you have to 'do' now: try not to fall asleep :D

But then, it will come...

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:19 pm
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Post Sleepy
Eduard


Last edited by Eduard Klarer on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Sleepy
Eduard Klarer wrote:
Roger wrote:
. . . . you can feel the 'energy' . . . .

May be you are the'energy' (qi?)?

Best!

Eduard


I love that one, yes... You are the energy, or the energy is you... but let's always keep cool... :D

Best

roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:44 pm
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Quote:
May be you are the'energy' (qi?)?


Wow. I always experienced it as something happening TO me. I've never identified with it before...strange. Yes, cool...

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:45 pm
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Ryan wrote:
Quote:
May be you are the'energy' (qi?)?


Wow. I always experienced it as something happening TO me. I've never identified with it before...strange. Yes, cool...

Ryan


that's the point the energy is you but you are not the energy though you are also, and it certainly does NOT belong to you... Do you see the point?

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:50 pm
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Post 
Quote:
that's the point the energy is you but you are not the energy though you are also, and it certainly does NOT belong to you... Do you see the point?


Yes.


Sorry, can't sleep tonight and all day has been a day where nothing seems to come out of my mouth.

BCI: I was gutted and stuffed with Straw: Where Are My BRAINS!!!???!!!
I'll Take Stupidity at this point too!

:roll:

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:58 am
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I had to vent. I feel better now.

:D

ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:29 am
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I've been walking in a fog for such a long time that I think last night I hit the wall and had make a decision.

I did.

All my Best,

Ryan

_________________
"Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherised upon a table;"
-T.S. Eliot: The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock


Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:48 pm
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Post 
This could be an important dream. There is a connection between Jung's
pinky and the child, in fact, they could be the same thing. As the
fingerprint is visible on the heel of the footprint this pinky
(=child) possibly represents the Achilles' heel of the Jungian
manifold spirit, which has many fingers, yet in an historical
perspective is still in its infancy (hence the baby footprint of
Jung's hand). Symbolically, the child is often a representative of the
spirit in the making. So what you are healing is in fact the *spirit*,
and the weakest aspect of Jung's hand. In Christ's name you are
driving the fiery, red and black, evil spirit out of it. So maybe this
doesn't refer to soul healing, nor bodily healing, but it could regard
the healing of a living spiritual tradition, more specifically an
aspect of it which has hitherto played a child's role and been
neglected. This dream could perhaps even refer to your life's work,
but that's maybe to stretch the meaning too far. Of course, the fact
that the name of Christ is used is very significant. You seem to be
driving out a spirit which is in some sense unchristian. Most
importantly, the dream tells you that you have such powers at your
disposal, and that you have a remedy for the spirit-child which is
connected with the Christian spirit.

Mats Winther


Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:16 pm
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