UNUS MUNDUS

The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 My Red and White Mandala 
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:27 am
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Post Regarding the red and the white symbolism
I have discovered that the Shri Yantra is traditionally drawn with a red and white triangle effect, such your mandala Remo. For some reason I can't find one to present here, though I have one at home (don't have a scanner....)


Here is a partial description of the contents of the yantra:


"the Shri Yantra is the specific yantra of the Hindu Mahavidya goddess known as Sodasi or Tripuransundari - meaning 'the divine goddess of the three cities'. Tripuransundari, who manifests as a beautiful sixteen year old red goddess, bears the attributes of a flower bow, arrow, noose and hook, and is equated with the seductive red goddess Kurukulla in the Buddhist tradition. Tripuransundari sits astride the prone body of her white consort Shiva in sexual union..."


I think I will check on Kurukulla somewhere to see what that name turns up. At any rate, the red and the white are also presented in this yantra as an intergral part, though the yantra has different numerical associations than Remo's multifaceted geometrics.


Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:06 am
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Post more Shri Yantra through the goddess Kurukulla
Remo - I just looked back at the earlier thread on this post and discovered your other mandala, which much ressembles the Shri Yantra, including, of course, the red and the white 'tiles'. I had forgotten about that - woops!

For what it's worth, I have just finished a search regarding the Buddhist goddess Kurukulla (similar to Kali in the Hindu lexicon, in one of her aspects). For anyone who is interested, the following link is VERY instructive:

http://www.shivashakti.com/tripura.html

Here I discovered that the Devi Lalita is the Shri Yantra (she is an aspect of Kurukulla, the Red Goddess, sometimes called 'red Tara'). The divinity always occupies the centre of the Yantra. The Yantra is arranged in concentric circles...the Shri Yantra has 9 mandalas, each filled with aspects of the Devi. The Shri is said to have 111 aspects (!). It is said to be a geometric form of the human body, which implies the Macrocosm is one with the human being as Microcosm...

O.K. - I am now placing another thread on this thread about Remo's mandala, but I thought it might have some resonance with his sensibility around the Kali energy.

To finish, one more point: " At the heart of the centre of the Shri Yantra is that which caused it to emanate, Kamakala, consisting of the 3 bindus, or potentials. One is red (ova), one is white (semen), and one is mixed, which represents the union of Shiva/Shakti..."

I was actually thinking about the centre in Remo's piece in this regard, as it is 'empty' - v. interesting. I guess the Shri Yantra is thus a mandala of an earlier world view (an early causal form?), not one of the potential 'new causal world', as Remo's may well be - :?

Well...??!
:roll:


Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:29 am
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a picture of Kurukulla in the Buddhistic view:


Image


very Kali-Durga like, no?


Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:32 am
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Post Re: more Shri Yantra through the goddess Kurukulla
kristin wrote:
Here I discovered that the Devi Lalita is the Shri Yantra (she is an aspect of Kurukulla, the Red Goddess, sometimes called 'red Tara'). The divinity always occupies the centre of the Yantra. The Yantra is arranged in concentric circles...the Shri Yantra has 9 mandalas, each filled with aspects of the Devi. The Shri is said to have 111 aspects (!). It is said to be a geometric form of the human body, which implies the Macrocosm is one with the human being as Microcosm...

O.K. - I am now placing another thread on this thread about Remo's mandala, but I thought it might have some resonance with his sensibility around the Kali energy.


No, no, Kristin. We are amplifying, and this means that you should enter similar material. This helps me very much to understand "my" mandala a little more.

Quote:
To finish, one more point: " At the heart of the centre of the Shri Yantra is that which caused it to emanate, Kamakala, consisting of the 3 bindus, or potentials. One is red (ova), one is white (semen), and one is mixed, which represents the union of Shiva/Shakti..."


On the one hand the third is the red tincture or infans solaris, on the other it is a symbol of the energy term. Here surely of what I call the matter-psyche aspect of energy.

Quote:
I was actually thinking about the centre in Remo's piece in this regard, as it is 'empty' - v. interesting. I guess the Shri Yantra is thus a mandala of an earlier world view (an early causal form?), not one of the potential 'new causal world', as Remo's may well be - :?


It is in fact the emptiness, which is decisive. Jung wondered why so many people draw such mandalas with an empty center, since our center is Jesus Christ or the cross or similar Christian symbols. The emptiness means however that "the place of the Godhead is empty" (Jung). In my interpretation this means the symbol of the "fullness of emptiness", the Buddhist symbol of "God". It is the unus mundus we can only reach in the state of the Eros ego. The latter means also some sort of emptyness, since for the goal of reaching it, we must empty the Logos ego, especially its thinking and talking function (the latter important e.g. in A.I.; this is why I choose a different term: BCI, Body-Centered Imagination for the Eros imagination)-

Remo

PS: Do you remember Marie-Louise von Franz's dream of the return of C.G.? It reacted on the statement of the medium that Christianity and Buddhism unify in the collective unconscious.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:34 am
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The centre is empty, the fullness of the emptiness - one of the first tenets in the study of Zazen meditation.

Remo, I was wondering if you feel that your madala creates a true way 'into' the Unus Mudus. Did you ever meditate upon it, or was the act of making it enough for you? Do you think that if others meditated upon it they might gain 'entrance'? I guess it is personal, though I know that people use mandalas as devices all the time.

(N.B.: I am probably too attached to symbols. I do attach a magic 'validity' to them. They may induce an outcome in the viewer, but they themselves are not the creator of the magic within. Or COULD they be? (is this an infantile sort of thought process - I wonder if I am caught in some kind of intuitive fantasy at times, but then again, the fact that we can create UFO's and ET's means we can create crop circles and so forth as well, and so it goes. Our creations ARE real, in some sense, - correct? :mrgreen: Perhaps an impossible question, given an infinite universe... ) )

To get away from the thinking and talking functions - :roll: - ! This forum makes us all look like raving communicators, eh? Well, maybe not all of us, but sometimes I feel like this person, that's for sure. Just how much 'downtime' does everyone get who writes for the UM? I was really wondering this the other day. If I didn't have a fair amount of quiet time and generous space around me to 'deactivate' from all of this communication, I would surely pop! But I do tend to talk alot to the closest people in my life, it's true.

Final question: when Jung set about making art, doing his sculpture and his mandalas, he decided to 'stop' the 'LOGOS' process completely for awhile, didn't he? He shut down and went into his artistic world and stayed away from over-communication for awhile, I thought. I wondered, when you created your mandala, was it at the end of a time of quiet introversion in your life, or was it during a time of removal from ordinary life at all?

Thanks for all the insights -

K


Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:10 am
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kristin wrote:
Remo, I was wondering if you feel that your madala creates a true way 'into' the Unus Mudus. Did you ever meditate upon it, or was the act of making it enough for you? Do you think that if others meditated upon it they might gain 'entrance'? I guess it is personal, though I know that people use mandalas as devices all the time.


In fact I had never such a thought. I myself in the very beginning "meditated" about the mandala as follows: I looked at it in the twilight and like this in a marvellous way the two colors were exchanged against each other in an oscillating rhythm. I did of course not yet know all the things about oscillation, especially the one of Wolfgang Pauli, which symbolizes the potential unus mundus. It was just marvellous.

Perhaps also other people can try this, I don't know.

Further the mandala produced always the sensation of a rotation and of containing the whole -- or hole? -- universe. As much as I know the astrophysicists indeed think that the universe rotates.

Quote:
(N.B.: I am probably too attached to symbols. I do attach a magic 'validity' to them. They may induce an outcome in the viewer, but they themselves are not the creator of the magic within. Or COULD they be? (is this an infantile sort of thought process - I wonder if I am caught in some kind of intuitive fantasy at times, but then again, the fact that we can create UFO's and ET's means we can create crop circles and so forth as well, and so it goes. Our creations ARE real, in some sense, - correct? :mrgreen: Perhaps an impossible question, given an infinite universe... ) )


We cannot "create" UFOs. They are always potentially created. We can only help in the incarnation act of the world soul, in which She incarnates "new life", by observing it. If we do not observe consciously, more and more people are forced to do so -> UFOs nad "ETs".

Quote:
To get away from the thinking and talking functions - :roll: - ! This forum makes us all look like raving communicators, eh? Well, maybe not all of us, but sometimes I feel like this person, that's for sure. Just how much 'downtime' does everyone get who writes for the UM? I was really wondering this the other day. If I didn't have a fair amount of quiet time and generous space around me to 'deactivate' from all of this communication, I would surely pop!


I had the same idea. But as soon as the creative daimon catches me, I must write. Otherwise I risk to break anew my bones. I broke perhaps 10 or more of them, and I don't like to repeat all this. The last time I broke my right arm was a fortnight before 9/11. Then I knew that -- at least for the moment -- my destiny is to write, write, write, write.

However, you (and all the other ones) needn't read all this instantaneously and answer every post. After I have posted my statement, it is "in the air" and stays there. Thus one can also answer much later (or not at all).

Quote:
Final question: when Jung set about making art, doing his sculpture and his mandalas, he decided to 'stop' the 'LOGOS' process completely for awhile, didn't he? He shut down and went into his artistic world and stayed away from over-communication for awhile, I thought. I wondered, when you created your mandala, was it at the end of a time of quiet introversion in your life, or was it during a time of removal from ordinary life at all?


In March 1974, the mandala ended my big life crises beginning in autumn 1972. My dreams began to show me that I should become a psychotherapist. In 1975 I began my studies at the so-called C.G. Jung Institute.

Further I began to learn autodidactically the guitar with the songs of the Beatles. I wrote about 100 songs. I began to do sculpturing and even began to study Chinese. I do not do all these things anymore today, since I saw that also there is yet a projection. The music comes now from the inside, Chinese (Taoism) has become my life philosophy, and sculpturing -- I don't know, perhaps Sulamith creates now out of Herself new "living matter".

Thus, for me also Jung's paintings and especially also his tower are yet projections. I was never able to understand his statement that the Tower is the Self. The Self is nowhere and everywhere, is eternal and happens just now. It is this paradox we should accept.

I guess Carl Jung projected the (Logos) Self into his tower -- and with his visions about the bear and the sphere and the "Anima" and the horse he chiseled in the outside of the tower, perhaps also the Eros Self -- since he was not yet really conscious about what the [introverted] vegetative [Corr. RFR; May 16, 2012] sensation function is. What he calls introverted sensation is still in a relation to the outside -- only the reaction on outer stimuli is an introverted act. Vegetative sensation, however, deals with the experience of the subtle body, of the "inner aspect of our physical body."

That there could be an [introverted] vegetative [Corr. RFR; May 16, 2012] relationship to one's own body, in which one looks at it with the idea of the "as if", i.e., looking for the symbol which is created out of the bodily sensation, Carl Jung and of course also the Jungians did not yet realize (as an effect of her disease Marie-Louise von Franz did however during the last years of her life). When one for example tries to express a dream image in clay, this is an introverted relationship to the outer world, since this someone doing A.I. needs yet the clay. Only when the clay is not necessary anymore, one enters Body-Centered Imagination.

This is another reason why I do not use the term Active Imagination, but Body-Centered Imagination for the method I developed.

Remo

PS of July 29, 2008:
Today, instead of "introverted sensation function" I would talk of the (introverted) vegetative sensation function which connects us with the gut brain. It is different from Jung's introverted sensation as well as of the extraverted sensation.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed May 16, 2012 7:55 am, edited 3 times in total.



Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:04 pm
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kristin wrote:

To get away from the thinking and talking functions - :roll: - ! This forum makes us all look like raving communicators, eh? Well, maybe not all of us, but sometimes I feel like this person, that's for sure. Just how much 'downtime' does everyone get who writes for the UM? I was really wondering this the other day. If I didn't have a fair amount of quiet time and generous space around me to 'deactivate' from all of this communication, I would surely pop! But I do tend to talk alot to the closest people in my life, it's true.



You know, I work full time and I am rather introverted. Posting here means much to me... maybe simply because I talk only out of my own experience...

Roger

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Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:40 pm
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Post Tibetan Monks create Mandala
Check out what these monks pulled off!

http://www.savannahnow.com/features/sli ... ndex.shtml

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Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:04 am
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Michael

Your link leads us back to my differentiation between an original creative act and the rite derived from the initial creative act. I respect the mandala creation by the Buddhist monks, but I do not think that this is the way we have to follow in our Western civilisation.

Why? It is a rite, i.e., something causal and static (the "Law"!) that was developed out of the acausal dynamics of the initial idea. It is like the mass which is also a ritualization of Christ's life, suffering and death.

I am however convinced that in all of us new individual rites are constellated, which we have to find by the method of BCI. This means that we wait passively until we see the inner images that circumscribe our individual myth. This is the difference to all these religious rites, initialized for the mass -- and not for the individual. [It seems that you have the same term in English, the Holy mass and the mass of people... Very informative!]

I had once a dream who warned me forcefully not to create rites. I have then seen that the rite is the beginning of a religious or pseudo religious sect, since only with such a rite introduced by the guru such a community is viviable. Then however the power-possesed people come up at the top and throw out all the creative people. Like this the whole essence of the initial guru is killed.

It was always like this and will always be like that with organizations. This is the reason why I cannot almost deal with any organization anymore.

Carl Jung:

Quote:
From such discussions [about active imagination] we see what awaits me once I have become posthumous. Then everything that was once fire and wind will be bottled in spirit and reduced to dead nostrums. Thus are the gods interred in gold and marble and ordinary mortals like me in paper. (Carl Jung, Letters, vol. 2, p. 469, Dec 22, 1958)


Remo

PS: People who have UFO dreams must be very, very careful in this regard, since "UFO" means always acausal creative incarnation -- and not causal rite.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:51 pm
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So then, do you think, for instance, that placing oneself 'in a trance', an altered state of consciousness, through whatever means also constitutes a static ritualistic expression as opposed to a creative act?

I believe people often do this spontaneously, perhaps even out of the unus mundus itself, without even being aware of it (ie. through a certain meditative stance, through dance or communing with nature, etc.), which I think is actually a creative act.

My example here contrasts, however, with a trance state induced by use of drugs (organic or synthetic!) or through mass ritual within a large group of impressionable people! Here you enter a sort of 'non-creative' atmosphere of submission to the collective (this as opposed to a personal choice to surrender to the moment and allowing yourself the freedom to 'drop in' (to the belly, the depths) and to wait and see what then comes...)

I refer here to personalized ritualistic expression, which does not revolve around some type of programmed 'enactment', and which does not have the same outcome each time (as within the Christian mass and other such rituals, which are all actually dead forms of expression). The sort of ritual to which I refer here springs spontaneously from the heart and soul as an expression of love - so, for instance, when you are at the seaside, you feel moved to create a picture/madala in the sand. And then, perhaps because it has put you in touch with a larger sensibility, the next time you travel to the seaside, you also enact a small personal ritual, though not every single time, nor every time in the same way.

Now also: what of the division or connection (?) between acts of beauty and the notion of 'truth' - one of those old points of much philosophical debate...

All I can say is that acts of beauty are always to be appreciated :P :wink: . In this light, the monks mandala is immensely satisfying for the onlooker without us having to become particularly influenced by/involved with the entrenched symbolism inherant in either the act or within the picture itself. Just so, the baroque splendour of a Catholic mass in a huge cathedral is certainly something to see - but we must simply be aware that it is just that, spectacle, that it is not a subsitute for personal attunement to the wonder of the world/s.

In your other post, Remo, you speak of 'Gods Turd', which falls on the roof of the church in CG Jung's dream vision. With the symbolic resonance of Jung's dream in mind, it is impressive that the Buddhist monks are known to 'uncreate' their intricate mandalas within a certain short time after their labourious completion! These sand mandalas are perhaps only 'kept' by us Westerners as sort of 'circus act' entertainments - :? :roll: We always hear the same expressions of amazement from the mouths of onlookers not situated firmly enough in their own creativity; " How did they DO that - look at the precison of the lines, oh I could never do that...." and so on and on - -- the strange dissociation from any 'act of beauty' (whether born of static ritual or not) from the minds of those who cannot find a way to get in touch with their own heart-based Selfhood (very often quite disturbing - I cannot stand being in crowds or at mass art exhibits or entertainments either and for this very reason).

best to all,
k


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Post Roll up for the Magical Mystery Tour!
kristin wrote:

My example here contrasts, however, with a trance state induced by use of drugs (organic or synthetic!) or through mass ritual within a large group of impressionable people! Here you enter a sort of 'non-creative' atmosphere of submission to the collective (this as opposed to a personal choice to surrender to the moment and allowing yourself the freedom to 'drop in' (to the belly, the depths) and to wait and see what then comes...)

k



Hey Kristin,

The great thing about the sacred plants is their dependability and reliability! Granted, one does willfuly initiate the visionary experience by purposeful ingestion of the wonderous botanicals, but one is then placed undeniably into a situation when comes the plunge into the ecstatic ocean of living visions released by the conjuntio :wink: of oneself with the amazing alkaloids. Then one can observe and experience without doubt the world investigated and navigated through by shamans for thousands of years. The psychedelic Mayan shaman-astronomers attained unique and profound insight into the nature of time which led them to created the galactic cosmology of the Long Count that marks Decemeber 21st 2012 as the date the Earth is born. In the Mayan Dresden Codex it was predicted that with the birth of the Sixth Sun which occured during the solar eclipse on July 11 1991, awareness of cosmic reality would increase through encounters with the Masters of the Stars. During the eclipse the skys over Mexico filled with dozens of UFOs which were seen by thousands of witnesses.

Chris


Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:28 am
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[B.T.W., Chris - weren't there just another set of unprecedented UFO sightings over Mexico? I read something really odd about how the Catholic Church is now showing great interest in these events, starting apparently with a statement regarding these sightings and making admission that there may well be other beings :mrgreen: in the universe after all other than ourselves.... (is the Catholic church gearing up for some sort of Illuminati trick here? or are all conspiracy theories just that after all...)]


As for the power of sacred plants - I get their effects without ingesting them now. It's a kind of suspension in their being-ness that brings it about. I can't take the intensity of ingestion - it produces a very very explosive current within me, blows my circuits. To tell the truth, I am always concerned now for those who, like me with my chemistry, might ingest and find only misery instead of bliss (some might argue that whatever the effect received is the effect that is 'right ' for present learning on the journey, I say that's pushing the river a bit too hard). The effects brought about by ingestion/smoking of psychoactive plants can be damaging for some vessels, ironically often those who actually are already 'shamanic' in nature, the introverts and the intuitive types. (Certainly it's true that each of us comes to our own rebirth by various means/paths and sometimes grand experiments can be pretty instructive. There are many tools, but the wise Magician knows just how to use them, eh?)

On that note, have you read the great book Pharmako/Poeia by Dale Pendell? It is a poetic treatise on the nature of our green allies, a sort of alchemical exploration of our connection with psychoactive plants. Dale calls it 'the Poison Path'. He says "Our Way...is not about being a plant person. Ours is the Poison Path"(p7), quoting poet Robert Aiken's "The Dragon Who Never Sleeps":

Quote:
Watching gardeners label their plants
I vow with all beings
to practice the old horticulture
and let plants identify me.


The book is subtitled; " Plant Powers, Poisons, and Herbcraft". Very illuminating, potentially radical. I dig the incredible weaving of flotsam and jetsam, the poetic trip he takes us on.

Meanwhile, I'm the kind of plantsperson who really would rather let ' [the] plants identify me'... My art lies in a sort of organized chaos when it comes to landscaping. I like to let the plants have their say in the matter -the elemental Devas are really 'into' that kind of co-creation!

Wow, so much to explore in this vein. I've been experiencing the frequency shift predicted by the Mayans, the Hopis and other indigenous cultures for some years now - something definitive IS happening, and it's really there now 'in' the biology too (as Remo would say - the oscillation --- I can feel it in my cells and all around) . I follow the Mayan calendar and pay little attention to the almighty clock, useful only for making it to dentist appointments on time...


K

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Post are we still 'here'?
So now I wonder where this thread is leading, how it is relating to Remo's mandala now, with our discussion of - plants - and their effect on the human body/mind complex, on the human soul itself.

There is obviously something in this, as always...


I feel appreciative of Remo's expose of the creation process regarding his/our(!) red and white mandala. I am thinking of how you suggest, Remo, that we must get past 'the clay' (terrestrial?) and do without it in order to REALLY get to the action of the BCI... Is not the whole of nature 'the clay', in fact? And how do we 'get past' this, which is really our only bliss, set as it is amongst the crazy extraverted world of over-stimulated human beings bent on self-destruction (and thus on the destruction of 'the clay' itself?..). We can pass 'through it' - as a veil - to other levels. We can travel back and forth, between worlds and never actually 'leave' anywhere - always BE somewhere, as it were. That's one method for 'being here now' - we only observe (reside mindfully within) the clay, but we do not try to fashion it in any particular image anymore. Interesting, as this corresponds to the idea of 'landscaping' as well - and here we arrive, at the connection with 'plants' again...

Isn't this clay just a little model of another 'clay', and so on and on? The Hindus say that this world is just the 'goo', the stuff with which we must 'play' in order to 'create' our present 3 dimensional existence. After all, we ARE here, right? So enjoy, rejoice in, 'the clay', but know its limits, perhaps?

The danger lies always in the one-sided view which becomes sterile - when entropy enters in. Hence, the oscillation - that little ongoing motion, actually the inherant creative chaos of things, which will force a stiff notion to its knees, the toppling of the false 'hero' which Roger speaks of in another post... (all the statues of the Lenin, of generals and statesmen, brought low, back to ground again, head in the dirt = the 'inverted tree' of alchemy, only to be reinvented again, again... this reinvention is what must stop - we seek authentic connection, rather than yet another new invention, eh? - )


k

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I also appreciate your effort to post the processes that explain how your mandala and stone came into being.

I find the process is usually just as intriguing as the final work of art. I must sincerely thank you for posting these personal journeys. There are very few magicians who would reveal their secrets. :wink:


Kristin, were you referring to the Mayan creation myth with your numerous references to clay?

Quote:
In the beginning were only Tepeu and Gucumatz. These two sat together and thought, and whatever they thought came into being. They thought earth, and there it was. They thought mountains, and so there were. They thought trees, and sky, and animals. Each came into being. Because none of these creatures could praise them, they formed more advanced beings of clay. Because the clay beings fell apart when wet, they made beings out of wood; however, the wooden beings caused trouble on the earth. The Gods sent a great flood to wipe out these beings, so that they could start over. With the help of Mountain Lion, Coyote, Parrot, and Crow they fashioned four new beings. These four beings performed well and are the ancestors of the Quiché.

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Michael wrote:
I find the process is usually just as intriguing as the final work of art. I must sincerely thank you for posting these personal journeys. There are very few magicians who would reveal their secrets. :wink:


Michael, Kristin, Roger and all

It's almost eleven o'clock and I am very tired. Thus just one short statement regarding the revealing of secrets:

I do not have any secret to reveal, since I do not have one. The secret is revealing itself, and any other idea is an identification with the power complex. My ego did and even now does not really know what happens. I was just forced by the Self (I guess by the Eros Self) to do this, to create the mandala and the stone. When I did this I did not think that I should now "follow the Self" or any such nonsense. I just felt that I have to do "the thing" (which showed afterward that it was the right thing) in exactly this time (which showed afterward that it was the right time). There was no calculation (math! causality! will-power!) in it, but just the drive to create. I guess it is the instinct of the artist, which is like that. But, since I am not "only" an artist but also a scientist, I had after all to find out what this was what was created with the (more ore less unconscious) help of mine. And as you have seen in the Sulamith and the mandala thread, only now I begin to understand some very important aspects of this work. Thus, the best comparision is Carl Jung's "queer old man":

Quote:
There was once a queer old man who lived in a cave, where he had sought refuge from the noise of the villages. He was reputed to be a sorcerer, and therefore he had disciples who hoped to learn the art of sorcery from him. But he himself was not thinking of any such thing. He was only seeking to know what it was that he did not know, but which, he felt certain, was always happening.

After meditating for a very long time on that which is beyond meditation, he saw no other way of escape from his predicament than to take a piece of red chalk and draw all kinds of diagrams on the walls of his cave, in order to find out what that which he did not know might look like.

After many attempts he hit on the circle. „That’s right,“ he felt, „and now for a quadrangle inside it!“ – which made it better still.


I am not a thinking type. Thus I did not meditate a long time, but felt with the help of my introverted feeling function that the time is ripe for the creation of something new. I must confess that before I found out that my Daimon would like to create something new, I did it like every man of today: With the help of my cock. But then I began to understand what I try to describe in my "Holy Wedding": It was not just the biological sexuality which was meant but the “procreative nature of the Whole”, and I began to understand that “man’s procreative power is only a special instance of the ‘procreative nature of the Whole’.” (Carl Jung)

My deep belief in the creative Daimon in everyone is the reason why I detest all these attempts to just copy the guru, as Jung describes it in the continuation of the above quote:

Quote:
His disciples were curious; but all they could make out was that the old man was up to something, and they would have given anything to know what he was doing. But when they asked him: „What are you doing here?“ he made no reply. Then they discovered the diagrams on the wall and said: „That’s it!“ – and they all imitated the diagrams.

But in so doing they turned the whole process upside down, without noticing it: they anticipated the result in the hope of making the process repeat itself which had led to the result. This is how it happened then and how it still happens today.


When I am coming out with all this after more than 33 years, I'd like only to show how the creative daimon, the world soul, did work in me. But every other creative human has the challenge to find out her/himself what this means for his/her individual life.

This is the stone where the people who feel the real individuation process will meet ...

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:48 pm
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yeah, remo, that's what i also feel.

what we really need now is just cameraderie it seems. hanging together around on the UM, for instance..

(i'm waiting ----)

suddenly - the 'myth' of the 'green man' comes in loud and clear! (i'm looking for a quotation... )

Quote:
...the Green man is the projection of the Tree of life, the life force. He is sap, fertility, semen, perhaps helpless and foolish but not stupid. He is the Natural Prophet, the Primal Word. He is creative but oddly passive. Yin-like.


author, dale pendell, then adds: the "black virgin began appearing in Europe in the eleventh and twelth centuries, at the same time as the great proliferation of the Green Man...the father hiding in the foliage." (p215, pharmako/poeia).

something is here.


:D

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:59 am
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Okay, so I just made my first mandala today. I don't know how to interpret it. It just seems pretty chaotic to me. Any tips?

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:36 am
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Hey Kristin,

Pharmako/poeia and Pharmakodynamis are my favorite books on plant sorcery. They really are like grimoires or alchemical texts that impart the living experiential gnosis of the various symbiotic conjunctions between practitioner and plant spirit.

Another work you may find of interest is The Viridarium Umbris, or Pleasure Garden of Shadow, by Daniel Schulke.
From the distributor, Caduceus Books:
Viridarium Umbris, Pleasure Garden of Shadow which Treats of the Secret Knowledge of Trees and Herbs Deliver'd by the Fallen Angels unto Man, Xoanon 2005 Numbered limited edition of 576, (xviii) + 518pp Illustrated. Most of these illustration depict the genius of a particular plant which commands its healing powers. The nature of this herbalism is deeply magical and occult.


Image


The massive UFO sightings throughout Mexico never really stopped since 7/11/01, but news of this doesn't always make its' way north of border.

El Khidir, whose disciple was Ibn al-Arabi, the Green Man of mystical Islam...

Chris


Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:57 am
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Post My Mandala
I uploaded a pic of my first mandala. Any insight would be appreciated, as I do not really know what to make of it. It does seem to reflect my current state of confusion, but I have no experience interpreting mandalas whatsoever. Here it is:

Image

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Post 
Kristin

kristin wrote:
suddenly - the 'myth' of the 'green man' comes in loud and clear! (i'm looking for a quotation... )

Quote:
...the Green man is the projection of the Tree of life, the life force. He is sap, fertility, semen, perhaps helpless and foolish but not stupid. He is the Natural Prophet, the Primal Word. He is creative but oddly passive. Yin-like.


author, dale pendell, then adds: the "black virgin began appearing in Europe in the eleventh and twelth centuries, at the same time as the great proliferation of the Green Man...the father hiding in the foliage." (p215, pharmako/poeia).

something is here.


Just great! Thus already in 1979 I anticipated -- or the Self in me did -- the connection of the Green Man with the Black Virgin. She is a virgin since she is creating out of herself, with the help of her phallus in the vagina (or in the unterus; I dont exactly know where; women must find out themselves :lol: ). The phallus is the Green Man.

See my remarks in the Sulamith thread: http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic ... light=#570

Just incredible!

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:17 am
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Post Re: My Mandala
Michael wrote:
I uploaded a pic of my first mandala. Any insight would be appreciated, as I do not really know what to make of it. It does seem to reflect my current state of confusion, but I have no experience interpreting mandalas whatsoever.


Michael

One should not interpret the mandala. You should go on with creating other ones. Then one can perhaps see a process which explains itself. This would be an explanation of your process out of the Self -- and not out of a therapist's ego.

Needs a bit a patience ...

Remo

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Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:20 am
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Good point. Glad you were quick to respond. I will continue making them.

Thanks,
Michael

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:22 am
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Post The Penetration Resistance
kristin wrote:
...the Green man is the projection of the Tree of life, the life force. He is sap, fertility, semen, perhaps helpless and foolish but not stupid. He is the Natural Prophet, the Primal Word. He is creative but oddly passive. Yin-like.


And I begin to understand the problem of the "penetration resistance" of certain women. If they are unconsciously in this archetype of the Holy Wedding, they must of course have a resistance against a phallus not belonging to their own body. I guess however that they can come back to a human relationship with a man, if they begin to understand with which archetype they identify unconsciously.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:27 am
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Post Re: are we still 'here'?
kristin wrote:
I am thinking of how you suggest, Remo, that we must get past 'the clay' (terrestrial?) and do without it in order to REALLY get to the action of the BCI... Is not the whole of nature 'the clay', in fact? And how do we 'get past' this, which is really our only bliss, set as it is amongst the crazy extraverted world of over-stimulated human beings bent on self-destruction (and thus on the destruction of 'the clay' itself?..). We can pass 'through it' - as a veil - to other levels. We can travel back and forth, between worlds and never actually 'leave' anywhere - always BE somewhere, as it were. That's one method for 'being here now' - we only observe (reside mindfully within) the clay, but we do not try to fashion it in any particular image anymore. Interesting, as this corresponds to the idea of 'landscaping' as well - and here we arrive, at the connection with 'plants' again...


Kristin

I don't really know about the clay and "clay". What I described is the result of a very long own process. Thus, I believe that people should first go on with the "projection", perhaps they need for ever the clay outside. What I wrote about above was my individual development, and only like this I was able to differentiate between Carl Jung's definition of introverted sensation and mine. Perhaps my definition is the introverted sensation of the Eros consciousness, Jung's perhaps of the Logos consciousness.

Remo

PS of July 29, 2008:
As mentioned above I distinguish the (introverted) vegetative sensation from Jung's introverted sensation, as well as of the extraverted.

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:35 am
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....so, also from Dale Pendell's Pharmako/Poeia, in an ongoing conversation...

Quote:
The Christian saints and missionaries cut down the sacred groves. Tree worship was particularly difficult to uproot. Living, rooted treees were suspect generally, being of little use to a sky god and probably even belonging to rivals. Perhaps because of the cross, Christianity was unable to incorporate or assimilate the Sacred Tree into its traditions, as it had so many other pagan beliefs.(p 220)


and this:

Quote:
The power of the Word: the victory of Christianity over paganism is also the triumph of literacy and a cosmopolitan worldview; it is the triumph of the Apocalypse. The Apocalypse is both their power, the source of their fanaticism and also their great disease. It is their Great Poison.

The Apocalypse is a new kind of poison that attacks eternity and creates history.


Isn't it the truth?

And so we finish with this:

Quote:
Green as the outlaw, outside the law[my emphasis]. It just grows by itself, with or without our approval. Green Man as the barbarian, the Wild Man beyond the wall.

Only barbarians are capable of rejuvenating a world laboring
under the death throes of unnerved civilization.


- Engels


as, once upon a time,

Quote:
... A path with heart. Shiva, perhaps...Dionysus and the Great Goddess, traveling together... (p212)


Thus our heartbreak of today.


But - here's one more for the road:

Quote:
Don't forget that it was Dionysus [the Green Man] gave Midas the gift of gold, the golden touch, the Great Stone. So Dionysus was a Master Alchemist. Somewhere he had a forge, and a crucible.


....and the story isn't over yet... :wink: (at least, not if we can help it!)


Kristin

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:13 am
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Thanks Chris for that very cool title. Can't wait to check it out. This is my ultra favourite territory too. I am a tree person from birth, not to mention herbs. I used to make my own alchemical concoctions from various substances (including the dirt) from way back when - . MLvF reminded me of this so much when I read of her girlhood experiment trying to create 'amber' from tree pitch and sea water...

Those very moving and sacred experiences of youth, eh? Now I wear a small alchemical image, from one of Senior's great books, the two birds as 'ouroboros', on my upper right arm, just to remind myself of who I 'always knew I was' even way back then.


Image


Blessed be, bro -
k

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:31 am
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Post H. P. Woodcraft
Hey K,

Trees are the coolest. The most alien, malformed, gnarled and twisted ones that grow in weird and strange shapes are the ones that I have the most attraction to. When I was a kid my parents planted dozens of trees in our yard and turned it into a small forest... a very cool place to hang out in.

Are you familiar with the Azoetia by the late Andrew Chumbley?

How about...

Image


Chris


Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:05 am
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Post the prospect of transgenetic trees v.s. saving the seeds!
Chris:
Not familiar with Chumbley's book, but Plant Alchemy yes, for sure. A friend of mine uses it extensively, but I usually only consult it once in awhile. It's very pithy stuff. Great glyphs.

I am really an 'all trees' kind of person, gnarly, smooth, large or small, but there are some trees that call to some people and not to others, that's true. Your folks must be pretty interesting people, b.t.w. You guys must all be very close to the holistic paradigm, if some of your posts are any indication.



Right now I'm keeping my eye on some possible future developments by big N. American corporations that don't look at all good. The spectre of 'transgenetic' tree plantations, for instance, is not a pretty prospect. The tree is the body of the Goddess and the Green Man, after all, the Tree of Life (see again my above quotation in a previous post regarding the Church and the felling of the sacred groves). The Tree is rooted in the ground of being, the Nuclear Plant is only 'placed' upon it. Become a 'seed saver' today, that's all I can say. Be resolved to preserve the freedom of the seed!

:idea:

That last sentence (regarding saving seeds) turns on a light just now ---

Radiation can ruin the ability to reproduce, right? Just how does this fact jibe with our thoughts in the forum around radioactivity, UFO sightings and reported interaction with ET's (which include purported reproductive experiments, biological tampering and the creation of - yes - transgenetic beings...)... Man-made radiation, irradiation and so forth, which appeared, as Remo states, precisely to remind us of the original, natural coniunctio, actually results in the destruction of the real cement (Roger's post): 'love'. Or can it? Can it REALLY?

Stream of consciosness....

It's late....



Kristin

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:41 am
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Post Re: the prospect of transgenetic trees v.s. saving the seeds
kristin wrote:
Chris:
:idea:

That last sentence (regarding saving seeds) turns on a light just now ---

Radiation can ruin the ability to reproduce, right? Just how does this fact jibe with our thoughts in the forum around radioactivity, UFO sightings and reported interaction with ET's (which include purported reproductive experiments, biological tampering and the creation of - yes - transgenetic beings...)... Man-made radiation, irradiation and so forth, which appeared, as Remo states, precisely to remind us of the original, natural coniunctio, actually results in the destruction of the real cement (Roger's post): 'love'. Or can it? Can it REALLY?

Stream of consciosness....

It's late....

Kristin


Chère Kristin,

to me man-made radiation, as found in the atomic bombs and energy plants is one the "greatest" achievements of the power-complex. Atomic plants are also called power plants aren't they?

To me, also, the opposite of love is power... So you see the danger is real.

Yours

Roger

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THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:47 am
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Post Re: the prospect of transgenetic trees v.s. saving the seeds
kristin wrote:
Right now I'm keeping my eye on some possible future developments by big N. American corporations that don't look at all good. The spectre of 'transgenetic' tree plantations, for instance, is not a pretty prospect. The tree is the body of the Goddess and the Green Man, after all, the Tree of Life (see again my above quotation in a previous post regarding the Church and the felling of the sacred groves). The Tree is rooted in the ground of being, the Nuclear Plant is only 'placed' upon it. Become a 'seed saver' today, that's all I can say. Be resolved to preserve the freedom of the seed!


Yes, it's horrible what these guys plan! They began with eradicating the local seeds best adapted to the respective region, only for the sake of their profit delusion, and now they begin to manipulate the genetic structure of the rest.

We in Switzerland began in the seventies to collect our seeds, and there are special organization which do nothing else than plant them every year to preserve these plants. Once, after the apocalyptic catastrophe, the manipulated seeds will not thrive and prosper anymore. Then we will be glad that we have preserved our local plants.

Remo

PS: This statement is also true for the human race in general and is an anti-globalization appeal.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:01 am
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Post Re: the prospect of transgenetic trees v.s. saving the seeds
Remo Roth wrote:
kristin wrote:
Right now I'm keeping my eye on some possible future developments by big N. American corporations that don't look at all good. The spectre of 'transgenetic' tree plantations, for instance, is not a pretty prospect. The tree is the body of the Goddess and the Green Man, after all, the Tree of Life (see again my above quotation in a previous post regarding the Church and the felling of the sacred groves). The Tree is rooted in the ground of being, the Nuclear Plant is only 'placed' upon it. Become a 'seed saver' today, that's all I can say. Be resolved to preserve the freedom of the seed!


Yes, it's horrible what these guys plan! They began with eradicating the local seeds best adapted to the respective region, only for the sake of their profit delusion, and now they begin to manipulate the genetic structure of the rest.

We in Switzerland began in the seventies to collect our seeds, and there are special organization which do nothing else than plant them every year to preserve these plants. Once, after the apocalyptic catastrophe, the manipulated seeds will not thrive and prosper anymore. Then we will be glad that we have preserved our local plants.

Remo

PS: This statement is also true for the human race in general and is an anti-globalization appeal.


Hey Remo & all...

Must be talking about Monsanto. Oddly enough, at one time I hit upon this UFO report website that was based out of Cincinnati, Ohio. Unfortunately, it is no longer up, but there was an old report of an urban legend that Monsanto had acquired "crashed disk hardware" which was then stored at one of their research facilities. I just found a link to the story: http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/6583/coverup026.html
Since I personally don't believe that UFOs are physical nuts & bolts spaceship hardware in the first place, I still find the coming together of the Frankenstienian Monsanto Corporation (genetic modifiers) and UFO (genetic modifiers) very interesting on another, more symbolic level.

One of the more interesting UFO abduction cases involves a woman named Betty Andreasson who stated that the UFOnauts were taking genetic samples of different species so that they could be re-introduced after an impending global catastrophe.

Chris


Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:33 pm
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