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The UNUS MUNDUS forum of Psychovision (Remo F. Roth) invites discussion of theoretical and practical issues of a possible union of Carl Jung's depth psychology with quantum physical principles.
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 Dream of the Radioactive Professor of Physics (W. Pauli) 
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Post Dream of the Radioactive Professor of Physics (W. Pauli)
The athanor in Roger's dream ( http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?p=483#483 ) reminds me of a dream I had on August 30, 1996, almost 10 years ago:

I am invited by a professor of Physics to visit his laboratory. He reminds me of Wolfgang Pauli.

Quote:
I publish the associations and the remarks as quotes. Like this we can distinguish the text of the dream a little more clearly from them.

Association:
Yesterday I thought that I should copy the rest of the Pauli/Jung letters (in German), since I should return the book very soon to the library.


Quote:
Remark of April 27, 2006 (one day after the 20 anniversary of Chernobyl):
By accident I found the book (today also published in English as Atom and Archetype, which was however already published in 1992, some weeks before the above date. It was adviced for me exactly at 6/6/1996 -- 35 years after Carl Jung's death ...

Thus, I dealt with the conversation of these two great men about physics and depth psychology. I was especially interested in the topic of the unus mundus (Dorneus/Jung) or psychophysical reality (Pauli)


The professor shows me his laboratory. He shows me especially some sort of an oven. It looks like an old alchemist's oven, an athanor. This athanor seems to be the most important experimental tool in the laboratory.

Already in the dream I know that this athanor is extremely important for the creation of artificial radioactivity.

Quote:
This reminded me of something I had written on 7/24/96, ie a week before this dream: I interpreted for the first time alpha, beta and gamma radioactivity on the psychophysical level, just as I explained it at the beginning of the thread Radioactivity and Nonlocality, UFOs and 'ETs'": http://unus-mundus.fr/viewtopic.php?t=98 .

Alpha radioactivity = psychophysical nonlocality

Beta radioactivity = creation of matter with higher negentropy, ie with higher life.

Gamma radioactivity = illumination (synchronicity)


I am measuring the intensity of radioactivity in the laboratory. I hold a Geiger/Muller counter in my hands. As expected, the radioactivity in this athanor is the highest. The athanor seems to be the producer of radioactivity.

I realize then that this athanor has very thick walls. Like this not too much radioactivity can leave it.

Quote:
Remark of today:
This seems to show that we need a great deal of introversion when following this process.

I publish however this dream today, since I think that 10 years after it happened there are people who are in need to know all this, especially people who live too extravertedly and like this experience UFO encounter and abduction in the outer respectively in the "outer/inner" world.


However, when I approach a collaborator of professor Pauli, I realize with great amazement that also his BELLY shows a very big radioactive radiation.

Quote:
Association:
My belly and my exercise [4/27/2006: today I call this my Body-Centered Imagination], in which I try to bring [then, but BCI is not always like this] down the energy from the heart chakra into the belly.

Remark (of 8/30/1996): Obviously in the belly there is "radioactivity". In this context also the athanor could symbolize the belly, more exactly the manipura chakra, the 3rd chakra (Solarplexus). The stomach is in fact some sort of an oven, since it burns the food we eat. Thus, this process seems to have to do with the 3rd chakra.

Remark of today: And this reminds me of course of the heat in Roger's dream.

Today I think however that sometimes we should also concentrate on the lower chakras, ie the first and the second. In Roger's dream it is however the 3rd, manipura = fire = Agni = fire god.


Any further thoughts?

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:31 am
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Post Maybe a bit off the topic..
Remo,
Hope you are well. Could you say more about "bring[ing] down the energy from heart chakra into the belly"? I’m wondering what would this do? Is it part of your exercise to bring down all or each of the charka energy into your belly? Doing your laundry sort of speak, like MLvF’s dream? I wonder (just a random association).
Peace, Sang.


Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:06 pm
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Post 
I am wondering,regarding the letters in AaA:

Letter 69P, Pauli reports 13 dreams in thanks for receiving the signed copy of Mysterium from Jung.

Dreams 12 and 13 are after starting to read mysterium.

Dream 10 - 5/20/55 has the vegetative triad with twin infants.einstein experiment intercepting rays on screen with unknown woman above.Pauli comments:

..unconscious is visible only when it comes up against a material object..and yet it has its own autonomous energy, such as rays, against which the screen is a protection.......

Dream 9 - 4/12/55 California and unknown women,pleasant feeling.
experiments being carried out in a laboratory o the first floor and a voice says "with two neutrinos"....

Pauli comments:

".....The two neutrinos could possibly be translated as "two nonpolar unconscious contents in only very weak interaction with he conscious" (for neutrinos are a specially penetrating form of radiation). "Nucleus" usually refers to the "Self".The reaction is going on there,not in the ego, which has simply been an onlooker."

Dream 7 - 9/30/54 cobras

Dream 6 - 9/6 54 - cathedrals and "isomorphy' (multiplicatio).
Dream 2 - 7/20/54 has popes which Pauli associates with religion and higher triad. Jung thinks of them as lower triad and does not comment on vegetative triad or infants (71J)


Later,76P.Pauli reports more dreams in letter about symmetry/asymmetry. God is a weak left hander. Pauli mentions his mirror complex

He reports 2 dreams from same time as previous 13 dream series (why did he pick these 13 for Jung in the previous letter ?). How did he choose which dreams to talk about when. Dream of Jan 1955 mentions child of dark.Chinese woman. Also 2 later dreams actual dates though to be 3/12 and 3/15/57 (ides of march/equinox).

This letter also reports the mushroom synchronicity.


A later correspondence with Jaffe reports enthusuaism about his work with Heisenberg (he later became disillusioned) which he thought was "under the influence of a quaternian aechetype" and associated with a dream (Nov 1957) of discovering "2 children one a boy and one a girl,both blond" (?infans solaris?).


Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:04 pm
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Post 
More on mushroom synchronicity which were related to the dreams of March 1957,after Madame Wu's experiment disproved symmetry for space/weak forces:

(FROM PAULI AND JUNG BY LINDORFF pp 232ff)

"Pauli's acccount of two dreams that had occurred directly after he had received an article from Max Delbruck in America revealed how deeply the mirror complex had engaged him. Delbruck's article dealt with a rare one-celled, light sensitive mushroom known as Phycomyces. Pauli was impressed by the article's discussion of an elemental interaction between physics (light) and biology (a life form).....

dreams of 3/12 and 3/15 are then reported,then

"About a month later around Easter time, a synchronicity occurred that tied in with this dream material. Pauli was reading about Perseus, the mythological figure who relied on the reflection from his shield for beheading Medusa. Pauli learned that Perseus, in founding the Greek city of Mycenae, had named it after a mushroom called mykes which the hero is said to have found during his search for a spring."


These coniunctio dreams and reflection dreams [all seem coniunctio related?] seem to fit with Pauli's idea that the unus mundus can be inferred from it's results (on the screen or in how reflections appear) thus illuminating the psychophysical background.

Decapitation and reflection are involved.With regard to Remo's dream, that might get Pauli out of the head and into the belly with an ego that just observes {like the Chinese Dr. Wu) with the subsequent multiplicatio/tncture/radiationalwas everywhere spontaneous creation out of unus mundus.

Pauli interpeting the March 1957 dreams:

"For the instinct of the "Dark Woman" there seems to be no essential difference between mirror symmetries in radioactive beta decay and multiple manifestations of an archetype. For her, the latter are just "reflections" of the "one indivisable One" or "unus mundus," which is then responsible for the symmetry of these reflections...."

Also from Pauli interpretation of "california dream" (69P) Pauli:

"I have given much thought in recent years to fundamental questions about biology and its relationship with the other sciences represented in the mandala [described in a previous letter]. Since I wrote an article for Dialectica in 1955 [ideas of the Unconscious from the stanpoint of natural science and epistomology], I have repeatedly observed that young nuclear scientists, who show no inclination within the field of physics to return to the old determinism, are of the view that our modern nuclear physics would basically suffice to understand the biomechanical and physiological processes in living organisms. Bohr, Heisenbeg, myself, and others, who experienced the radical change that physics underwent in 1927, do not share this view at all; cautious biologists leave the question open. My impression is that one should not be deceived by the fact that every single physical-chemical process, when observed in isolation, has to work according to the established rules of quantum chemistry, regardless of whether this takes place within or outside of a living organism. It is the interplay of many physocal-chemical processes and how they are controlled that is characteristic of life......"

Pauli then goes on to speculate that taking a more wholistic view in studying biochemistry would permit a better approach to describing psychophysical reality,especially the archetype concept,then he mentions a remark by Jung from 67J about the "archetypal slection of 'suitable connections' in biochemical processes."

This, Pauli says then leads from the california dream ("coniunctio series" from 69P) to the vegetative triad dream:

".....which leads us to the children in the following dream. The fact that they appear in connection with the "clover leaf" archetype (plants,lower Trinity) probably fits into this context since biology deals with the material substratum of life."


Mon May 01, 2006 3:31 pm
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Post 
Tom wrote:
This, Pauli says then leads from the california dream ("coniunctio series" from 69P) to the vegetative triad dream:

".....which leads us to the children in the following dream. The fact that they appear in connection with the "clover leaf" archetype (plants,lower Trinity) probably fits into this context since biology deals with the material substratum of life."


I have just had the following dream after an attempt at BCI:

Quote:
I see a clover with four leaves. I bend to pick it up and then cannot see it. Then I ‘hear’ a telepathic voice. The clover is talking to me, guiding me to find it. I am now on my knees and see the plant. It seems very happy we are in contact and shows me its numerous family. There I can see an incredible clover with 5 leaves and one with six. I realize also that they get on very well with alfalfa.


I guess it is linked with the above quotation from Pauli.
What is striking is the way the number of leaves grows up and the relation stated with alfalfa (see the thread about it on the forum.http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=736#736 and following).

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue May 02, 2006 7:11 am
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Post Re: Dream of the Radioactive Professor of Physics (W. Pauli)
Remo Roth wrote:
However, when I approach a collaborator of professor Pauli, I realize with great amazement that also his BELLY shows a very big radioactive radiation.

Quote:
Association:
My belly and my exercise [4/27/2006: today I call this my Body-Centered Imagination], in which I try to bring [then, but BCI is not always like this] down the energy from the heart chakra into the belly.

Remark (of 8/30/1996): Obviously in the belly there is "radioactivity". In this context also the athanor could symbolize the belly, more exactly the manipura chakra, the 3rd chakra (Solarplexus). The stomach is in fact some sort of an oven, since it burns the food we eat. Thus, this process seems to have to do with the 3rd chakra.

Remark of today: And this reminds me of course of the heat in Roger's dream.

Today I think however that sometimes we should also concentrate on the lower chakras, ie the first and the second. In Roger's dream it is however the 3rd, manipura = fire = Agni = fire god.


Any further thoughts?

Remo


Two things.

First a personal experience.

When I first met Etienne Perrot who surely was evolving in Eros consciousness we took a very small lift to reach his flat at the 3rd (!) floor. We were quite close and I really felt a flow of energy pouring from his belly to mine .

Then: I my spider dream I say:

Quote:
At first, I am shown an initial event. Someone (maybe me) shoots an arrow which is in fact THE small spider towards THE big spider. When the small spider hits the other, it is naturally ejected. The impact produces a transformation of the small spider. It becomes a sort of spherical animal with a woollen fleece. I keep with it for a short while cuddling it. But it says it must go away.


I associate the animal with a sheep or a lamb. 'Agnus' (plural 'agni') in latine is the lamb. I do wonder if the pun is not intended in the dream (such word plays are very common in my dreams) to relates with 'Agni' as the fire god of the manipura.

Roger


Tue May 02, 2006 7:34 am
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Post 
Roger Faglin wrote:

I have just had the following dream after an attempt at BCI:

Quote:
I see a clover with four leaves. I bend to pick it up and then cannot see it. Then I ‘hear’ a telepathic voice. The clover is talking to me, guiding me to find it. I am now on my knees and see the plant. It seems very happy we are in contact and shows me its numerous family. There I can see an incredible clover with 5 leaves and one with six. I realize also that they get on very well with alfalfa.


Roger


The clover with four leaves is commonly associated with the idea luck.

Now what is luck? It can be interpreted as a synchronistic event but I guess it is deeper than that since some people are 'gifted' in that domain to the point that they seem to be able -- in an uncontrolled way though -- to draw luck. I wonder if this is not some kind of unconscious positive incarnation process.

Roger


Tue May 02, 2006 7:48 am
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Post 
Roger Faglin wrote:
The clover with four leaves is commonly associated with the idea luck.


Roger

Perhaps a synchronicity:

Since I do not know what "clover" is, I look up my dictionary:

"be (or live) in clover": "wie Gott in Frankreich leben", ie living like God in France ...

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 02, 2006 9:05 am
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Post 
Remo Roth wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:
The clover with four leaves is commonly associated with the idea luck.


Roger

Perhaps a synchronicity:

Since I do not know what "clover" is, I look up my dictionary:

"be (or live) in clover": "wie Gott in Frankreich leben", ie living like God in France ...

Remo


Interesting,

thanks

Roger

PS: clover and alfalfa belong to the same family: fabaceae

Clover
Quote:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clover (Trifolium) is a genus of about 300 species of plants in the pea family Fabaceae. They are found chiefly in northern temperate regions, but also, like many other north temperate genera, on mountains in the tropics. The plants are small annual or perennial herbs with trifoliate (rarely 5- or 7-foliate) leaves, with stipules adnate to the leaf-stalk, and heads or dense spikes of small red, purple, white, or rarely yellow flowers; the small, few-seeded pods are enclosed in the calyx. Eighteen species are native in Britain, and several are extensively cultivated as fodder-plants. The most widely cultivated clovers are White clover Trifolium repens and Red clover Trifolium pratense.
Other closely related genera often called clovers include Melilotus (sweet clover) and Medicago (alfalfa or 'calvary clover').
The scientific name derives from the Latin tres, "three", and folium, "leaf", so called from the characteristic form of the leaf, which has three leaflets (trifoliate); hence the popular name trefoil. Clovers are used as food plants by the larvae of some Lepidoptera species - see list of Lepidoptera which feed on Clovers.
A common idiom is "to be in clover", meaning to be living a carefree life of ease, comfort, or prosperity. Also, specimens of Shamrock and other clovers are not infrequently found with four leaflets. These four-leaf clovers, like other rarities, are considered lucky.


And now, just for fun, clover belongs to the same family as beans. They have a very interesting capacity: 'they ferment and produce methane and other gases causing discomfort and abdominal pains.' (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/cropfactsheets/fababean.html') :D :D

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Tue May 02, 2006 10:31 am
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Post Pauli's dream of the secret radioactive laboratory
Tom wrote:
He reports 2 dreams from same time as previous 13 dream series (why did he pick these 13 for Jung in the previous letter ?). How did he choose which dreams to talk about when.


Paulis dedication of letter [69P]:
Quote:
Dedicated to Prof. C. G. Jung / in Thanks for his Mysterium Coniunctionis I and II / and in Response to his Letter of 10 October 1955, / with unaltered Faith in the Unconscious. / by W. Pauli


If one looks up the mentioned letter [68J], one finds one very interesting part dealing with the so-called self-amplification:

Quote:
In psychology, we let the archetypes amplify themselves or we even observe the amplification process in dreams.


Thus we can assume that Pauli sends the dreams to present an empirical example of this self-amplification of the dreams [Jung used the method also in the interpretation of Pauli's vision series, today in CW 12, Psychology and Alchemy]

However, at the latest in the letter "To be or not to be" of Feb 27, 1953 Pauli began to doubt the concept of the collective unconscious of Carl Jung. As I have shown in my ms The Return of the World Soul, he began to see that Jung did not really understand that quantum physics had led to a completely new epistemology which needs Artistotle's term of the potential being as a third state besides being and nonbeing. Jung argues however always only with the two latter, and he calls them the ascertainable and the nonascertainable.

I guess now that in 1956, when he wrote your above quoted letter as a reaction to his studies of Mysterium Coniunctionis Pauli had the same idea: To formulate with the help of these self-amplifying dreams his doubts about Carl Jung's conclusions about the unio corporalis in MC. The proof for this hypothesis is the first dream Pauli mentions. It is the dream about the secret radioactive laboratory of July 15, 1954:

[It is very likely that this dream reacted on Pauli's first doubts above in 1953 and tried to show him that the term "radioactivity" and "synchronicity" in his dreams do not express the same fact. That there is a difference -- synchronicity and magics -- is what I tried to show in my Return of the World Soul].

Quote:
"I am in Sweden, where Gustafson (professor of theoretical physics in Lund) is present. He says to me; 'This is a secret laboratory in which a radioactive isotope has been isolated. Did you know anything about it?' I reply that I knew nothing about it."


Pauli had this dream two weeks after he visited Lund. The reason for the visit was a total sun eclipse there. He writes ironically: But we were not able to observe it, since it was completely cloudy. And then comes one of the very seldom points in his letters, in which he shows a feeling: "But it was nevertheless very impressing."

The idea of this dream and its context is clear: It is the darkening of the sun-like consciousness, ie of the Logos consciousness which allows the "radioactive experiment". But for Pauli this "experiment" is yet secret, ie he is not yet conscious about. IMO, this has to do with the fact that also Pauli was not yet able to do BCI, in which one just observes and let oneselve's be surprised (feeling!) of what happens as a result of the observed "inner quantum leaps" ("singular inner radioactive decay" = radioactive laboratory not secret anymore...).

Pauli seems however to have had anticipations in this direction. One sees it in the fact how he writes several times about the relationship between synchronicity and "radioactivity". He seems to begin to feel that the dreams try to show him that there is a difference between the two.

As I have shown, "psychophysical radioactivity" has to to with the twin process of Hermetic alchemy. However, Jung reduces the concerned process, the unio corporalis, to the unio mentalis, ie to active imagination. As much as I can see, the former is however a different process. Thus synchronicity and "radioactivity" are different.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Tue May 02, 2006 3:18 pm
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Post Back to the clover dream
Roger Faglin wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:

I have just had the following dream after an attempt at BCI:

Quote:
I see a clover with four leaves. I bend to pick it up and then cannot see it. Then I ‘hear’ a telepathic voice. The clover is talking to me, guiding me to find it. I am now on my knees and see the plant. It seems very happy we are in contact and shows me its numerous family. There I can see an incredible clover with 5 leaves and one with six. I realize also that they get on very well with alfalfa.


Roger


At first my main association was with luck. The four-leaf clover is strongly linked with it. And then I remembered the quotation from Pauli.

Obviously the vegetal dimension indicates that the dream comes from the Eros Self.

The four-leaf clover seems to work as a kind of attractor. Once the attention of the dreamer is caught a stange phenomenom happens: the plant begins to talk to him telepathically (inner communication) in order to guide him.
Thus we might conclude that the Eros Self 'wants' to show something to him.

The dreamer is led to observe more closely the vegetal world and so notices a five-leaf clover and a six-leaf one. To him it looks like a miracle.

The five-leaf clover (2+3) points to the 2*3 symbolism, that completes Pauli's clover.

The six-leaf clover is a living seal of Solomon.

The plant also shows its parentage with alfalfa.

Here I quote Kristin: (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=736#736)

Quote:
- Third, the angels said, however, something about 'alfalfa'. The information was that the angels can, in some way, be made happy, or be 'appeased' by, 'ALFALFA'. They LIKE it!

(I associate 'alfalfa' with 'Alpha' (as well as considering the plant itself, which may have some meaning of it's own. It is GREEN - a plant which replaces nitrogen INTO the soil, and, among other things, alfalfa is called 'Trefoil' - which means '3' leaves! It is native to Iran (given the history happening there right now, this is quite something). IT cannot be seeded in a field where it already is growing - it is 'autotoxic', therefore - -- which is quite interesting, and, finally, alfalfa has been known to stimulate and increase lactation, and therefore is a member of the plants known as 'galactagogues' ...


To which Remo replied: (http://psychophysical.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=743#743)

Quote:
Thus, Alfalfa seems to "fertilize mother earth", what reminds me of course of the Holy Wedding archetype. It seems thus to symbolize the act of procreation or the creation of "new life" in my post above. Thus, what I call the singular acausal quantum leap. [An interesting aspect is also that the dream takes a vegetative symbol for that.]

Thus, we could say in my terminology that Alfalfa symbolizes what I call Beta radioactivity on a psychophysical level.

It symbolizes however also alpha radioactivity. Thus the dream would confirm my hypothesis that "alpha decay" and "beta decay" belong together. "Alpha decay" I translate with approaching the space- and timeless unus mundus -- the little spider melts with the big spider! "Spider" perhaps meaning the Norns or Maya, spinning the web of the universe -- , "beta decay" with the singular acausal quantum leap happening exactly when we are able to approach the world of "alpha decay", ie the unus mundus.

The world of the "alpha decay" is the Beyond. The "inhabitants" are the "ETs". They do not like "2K", obviously a weapon. Perhaps this has to do with the real Y2K problem, the reaction of Bush & Co. on 9/11. But this is a speculation on the background of my "personal equation", ie the very deep dread that Bush will bomb Iran with nuclear missiles, which would be the wrongest decision ever taken.

The "angels" ("ETs") ie inhabitants of the space- and timeless world, of the unus mundus like Alfalfa, they even are appeased by it. If we take Alfalfa as described above, ie as the alpha decay, on the one hand the space- and timeless psychophysical reality, the Beyond, and on the other the conscious approach (approximation?) to it with the help of the Eros ego, then this would mean that the "angels" like this way of meditation, ie what I describe as the Body-Centered Imagination. Entering it means coming into the state of Wu Wei, in which we are "actively passive" and hope that we can perhaps observe such a "beta decay" in the world of the "alpha decay", i.e., the singular acausal quantum leap, in which the potential state (matter-psyche in the unus mundus) becomes actual, ie incarnated into our space and time bound world.


So the dream seems to put the stress (agree with ?) on the above remaks.

We could then say that if we relate to the seal as a living symbol (as a true part of our life) then we contribute to the 'appeasement' of the life in the Unus Mundus. But for that of course we have to bend very low (as in BCI).

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Wed May 03, 2006 7:23 am
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Post Re: Back to the clover dream
Roger Faglin wrote:
Roger Faglin wrote:

At first my main association was with luck. The four-leaf clover is strongly linked with it.

Roger


Luck is obviously acausal. So the four-leaf clover would represent the acausal quantum leap happening (sometimes and whenever) in the BCI.

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Wed May 03, 2006 7:32 am
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Post 
All

Thank you so much for your contributions to my dream of the radioactive professor. It gives me many new ideas what it really means. Further, with the living examples of dreams and BCIs of other people I get empirial "material", which shows that my theory is right.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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Post Re: Maybe a bit off the topic..
Quote:
For an intuitive it is very normal to sensate for example the heart as an "as if..."
.

And here the trouble with the psychiatrist begins, since for them -- mostly sensation types -- all this is crazy, schizophrenic, and so on.

Thus, for them all the UFO/"ET" people are crazy. I guess I mentioned once that I know a psychologist in the Burghölzli -- where Carl Jung developed some of his most important ideas -- who tried to distinguish UFO/"ET" experiences from schizophrenia with the help of differential diagnostic tools. He was forbidden to do this by his chiefs -- professors of psychiatry ...

Brave new world of psychiatry !!!

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed May 03, 2006 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed May 03, 2006 7:40 am
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Post Re: Maybe a bit off the topic..
Remo Roth wrote:

I tried to give you an example of mine, but the I Ching forbade to do this in public.

Remo


Yes.

The danger would be that people consider BCI as a recipe as it has become usual in the western man's mentality with many mystic practice.

Roger

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Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Wed May 03, 2006 7:45 am
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Post Re: Maybe a bit off the topic..
Sang wrote:
... Could you say more about "bring[ing] down the energy from heart chakra into the belly"? I’m wondering what would this do? Is it part of your exercise to bring down all or each of the charka energy into your belly? Doing your laundry sort of speak, like MLvF’s dream? I wonder (just a random association).


The reason for the impossibility of giving general rules is perhaps the acausality of this process. "General rules" mean causality and are thus forbidden. Even I, after doing BCI for more than 20 years now, have always to look for new attitudes. I never know if the "method" I had found is yet the right one, and thus I have to find a new attitude. This is why I wrote above that BCI is not always a concentration on the heart chakra.

Remo

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'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


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Post Re: Maybe a bit off the topic..
Roger Faglin wrote:
The danger would be that people consider BCI as a recipe as it has become usual in the western man's mentality with many mystic practice.


Oh, thanks, Roger

I got first angry that the I Ching does not want me to show an example. But you are right: BCI would degenerate in the same way as Carl Jung's Active Imagination degenerated to some stupid head fantasizing process, the imaginatio phantastica of the old alchemists ...

The imaginatio vera is "hidden", ie everyone should find out her/himself how it works in his/her individual case.

This is a very new insight, I must say. I was only able to have it as a result of our discussion. Thanks a lot, Roger, for the re-opening of the UNUS MUNDUS forum.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 7:49 am
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Post Re: Maybe a bit off the topic..
Remo Roth wrote:

Oh, thanks, Roger

I got first angry that the I Ching does not want me to show an example.

Remo


:lol:

The point with the I Ching is that it is always right!

But i know the feeling!

Best

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Wed May 03, 2006 7:53 am
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Post Re: Back to the clover dream
Roger Faglin wrote:
Luck is obviously acausal. So the four-leaf clover would represent the acausal quantum leap happening (sometimes and whenever) in the BCI.


I have a bit a different theory:

The Seal of Solomon is the necessary structure, ie the unus mundus, with the potential acausal quantum leap "in it".

The quintessence (a special sort of #5) is the quantum leap, the quintessence = red tincture = infans solaris of Hermetic alchemy,

and the quaternity is the new causal world, the result of the quantum leap.

Thus, the process is {quaternity -> Seal of Solomon -> quintessence -> new quaternity}

It is my hope that this "new quaternity" is something in the background of the world -- what I also call the "spirit-psyche with higher negentropy" -- which changes the devilish ideas of the rulers of this world ...

Remo

PS: Why the process is contrarywise in your dream I don't know.

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 8:08 am
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Post Re: Back to the clover dream
Remo Roth wrote:

PS: Why the process is contrarywise in your dream I don't know.


Would it be because it is expressed from the World Soul's point of view, like reversed in a mirror???

Roger

_________________
Fire over wood:
THE IMAGE of THE CAULDRON.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate By making his position correct.
The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing.

I Ching #50


Wed May 03, 2006 9:05 am
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Post Re: Back to the clover dream
Roger Faglin wrote:
Remo Roth wrote:

PS: Why the process is contrarywise in your dream I don't know.


Would it be because it is expressed from the World Soul's point of view, like reversed in a mirror???

Roger


I have an idea: Perhaps it is the multiplicatio, which is shown here. If someone has reached this state, ie the new quaternity, the (invisible) subtle body (see beginning of the dream), then the process goes on: The quantum leap happens now in the many "clovers" (= multiplicatio), but they have first to become the Seal of Solomon, ie the Eros consciousness which can observe the Eros Self.

Quote:
I see a clover with four leaves. I bend to pick it up and then cannot see it. Then I ‘hear’ a telepathic voice. The clover is talking to me, guiding me to find it. I am now on my knees and see the plant. It seems very happy we are in contact and shows me its numerous family. There I can see an incredible clover with 5 leaves and one with six. I realize also that they get on very well with alfalfa.


Alfalfa = alpha radioactivty as well as beta radioactivity. In my above post I interpreted however the former as the Seal of Solomon = unus mundus, the latter as the quantum leap. Thus all this comes together with the interpretation of #6 and of #5 above.

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 9:37 am
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Yes, it fits!

Thanks

Roger :wink:


Wed May 03, 2006 10:02 am
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Post 
Roger's dream

Quote:
I see a clover with four leaves. I bend to pick it up and then cannot see it. Then I ‘hear’ a telepathic voice. The clover is talking to me, guiding me to find it. I am now on my knees and see the plant. It seems very happy we are in contact and shows me its numerous family. There I can see an incredible clover with 5 leaves and one with six. I realize also that they get on very well with alfalfa.


at least my interpretation of it above,

and Pauli's statement quoted by Tom:

Quote:
Pauli interpeting the March 1957 dreams:

"For the instinct of the "Dark Woman" there seems to be no essential difference between mirror symmetries in radioactive beta decay and multiple manifestations of an archetype. For her, the latter are just "reflections" of the "one indivisable One" or "unus mundus," which is then responsible for the symmetry of these reflections...."


belong together. Both talk of the multiplicatio, and the latter is equivalent to the mirroring process Pauli dreamt of many times, but did not understand.

The mirroring process is what I defined in a neutral language as

Quote:
{spirit-psyche (physical energy/objective psychic energy) -> matter-psyche with potential higher negentropy}

and

{matter-psyche with potential higher negentropy -> spirit-psyche with realized, incarnated higher negentropy}


In the moment of the first of the twin process, in which the transformation takes place, also the second process happens, if observed by an individual*). One of the most decisive aspects of the Hermetic alchemical opus, of the second phase of Gerardus Dorneus, of the unio corporalis, of the second coniunctio (all synonymous) is that this "exchange of attributes" as well as the the multiplicatio must happen, since both are necessary effects or goals of the unio corporalis

This is why I began to understand that the red tincture (quintessence, infans solaris) Pauli compares with radioactivity is the second product of the unio corporalis (The first is the Seal of Solomon, the unus mundus, the lapis, ie the necessary structure for the singular quantum leap). Then I realized that physical radioactivity must be much more than just a physical by-product of the fission of the atom. It, more exactly, the beta radioactivity, is the transformation process on the psychophsical level by which new life is created. Since all this happens so unconsciously and projected into the fission of the atom, the whole process becomes destructive. This destructive process we will experience in the coming apocalypse ...

[The first coniunctio is the union of the psyche with the spirit, the former liberated of matter, ie the Neoplatonic process, the central idea of physics, the liberation of energy out of matter, and of Carl Jung's depth psychology, the liberation of objective psyche out of matter.]

Remo

*) More exactly: This process happens anyway, ie the world soul would like that human beings observe it, since only with the help of the observation by living beings the incarnation can take place. "The dead need the living" (Carl Jung), but not only for becoming more conscious, but to incarnate new life (themselves? reincarnation?) in our space and time bound world.

Since this process is activated today, especially because of the artificial radioactive decay, the world soul throws certain people into the state of UFO/"ET" observation. Like this the incarnation process is observed by a human being, and like this the incarnation becomes real. This is the second of the twin process, if we continue to stay unconscious of what happens in the universe ...

Mankind has become godlike -- but it does not realize it ...

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Last edited by Remo Roth on Wed May 03, 2006 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed May 03, 2006 12:04 pm
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Post 
And since this creation process of the world soul happens unconsciously in our world since 1945, it is obvious that there must come ideas like the intelligent design of evangelical Christians. However, since they stay in the power complex of the causality principle, they cannot see that this process is not a creation process of the masculine Christian God, but of the World Soul, the Goddess, who creates acausally, according to the principle of the creatio continua, and not to the creatio ex nihilo

For the latter two see http://www.psychovision.ch/synw/sealofs ... 41.htm#541 , section 5.4.2

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 12:12 pm
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Post 
Tom wrote:
More on mushroom synchronicity which were related to the dreams of March 1957,after Madame Wu's experiment disproved symmetry for space/weak forces:

(FROM PAULI AND JUNG BY LINDORFF pp 232ff)

"Pauli's acccount of two dreams that had occurred directly after he had received an article from Max Delbruck in America revealed how deeply the mirror complex had engaged him. Delbruck's article dealt with a rare one-celled, light sensitive mushroom known as Phycomyces. Pauli was impressed by the article's discussion of an elemental interaction between physics (light) and biology (a life form).....

dreams of 3/12 and 3/15 are then reported,then

"About a month later around Easter time, a synchronicity occurred that tied in with this dream material. Pauli was reading about Perseus, the mythological figure who relied on the reflection from his shield for beheading Medusa. Pauli learned that Perseus, in founding the Greek city of Mycenae, had named it after a mushroom called mykes which the hero is said to have found during his search for a spring."

These coniunctio dreams and reflection dreams [all seem coniunctio related?] seem to fit with Pauli's idea that the unus mundus can be inferred from it's results (on the screen or in how reflections appear) thus illuminating the psychophysical background.

Decapitation and reflection are involved.With regard to Remo's dream, that might get Pauli out of the head and into the belly with an ego that just observes {like the Chinese Dr. Wu) with the subsequent multiplicatio/tncture/radiationalwas everywhere spontaneous creation out of unus mundus.


The mushroom synchronicity could tell us the following:

We need the Perseus attitude, ie decapitate the spirit-psyche "Anima". In Pauli's dreams there was the white woman he interpreted as physics/science, and the dark woman he did not exactly know how to interpret, but of which we would say today that it is the anima mundi. The difference between the two I have demonstrated in http://www.psychovision.ch/hknw/holy_we ... _e.htm#451

In Pauli's dreams the white women became more and more destructive, the dark however more and more constructive ...

If the spirit-psyche Anima is decapitated, we can observe the "interaction between physics (light) and biology (a life form). This could mean that we can use the epistemological insights of quantum physics about the acausal quantum leap to realize that also in nature there are (however singular) acausal quantum leaps, the incarnation acts of the world soul.

[Physics does however not operate with the concept of the singular acausal quantum leap, the singular radioactive decay, since it is not observable with the help of the quantum physical observational tools. Thus it observes millions and billions of atoms (of uranum eg), and defines like this a so-called statistical causality. This is the work of the scientific anima, and it should be replaced by the observation of the singular acausal quantum leap on the psychophysical level -> BCI]

By the observation -- great Tom, how you interpret Dr. Wu as the consciousness who only observes -- of the unus mundus and the creations out of it, "AN INVISIBLE, POTENTIAL FORM OF REALITY THAT IS ONLY INDIRECTLY INFERABLE THROUGH ITS EFFECTS" (Pauli), these potential creations are actualized in our space and time bound world, ie incarnated.

The reflection of the shield of Medusa is of course the twin process described above, we observe. It was also symbolized as Pauli's mirror man (in his late dreams; not in AaA), which was his stranger, the magician.

The very difficult challenge for scientists and Jungians seems to be the decapitation of the scientific Anima. This will be the deed of all these people Marie-Louise von Franz writes of at the end of her Jung biography:

Quote:
"How many heroes will now meet at this stone, in order to enter the great adventure of individuation, the inner journey. Today I am convinced that the destiny of our western culture depends upon this."


I would even say: The destiny of our world and of the universe ... !

Remo

_________________
'Here stands the mean uncomely stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise.'
(C.G. Jung, MDR, p. 253)
WebSite: http://www.paulijungunusmundus.eu


Wed May 03, 2006 3:40 pm
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Post 
More AaA questions/numbers.

In the earlier letters there is the question of how to get from 3 to 4 and Pauli suggests 3 x 4 = 2 x 6.

He later agrees with Jung, however, that 12 is incomplete as compared to 16.

Then in the dancing diagonals, Pauli is told regarding the seal of solomon that the 6 points on the star is not right and that the digonals of the square are longer than the sides suggesting dynamics/oscillation/dance.etc similar to the 3 rhythms of the world clock.

Remo has alos done a lot of work on Personality typing. One very interesting interpretation by Jung of the types and the 3 vs 4 is in ARCHETYPES OF THE COLLECTIVE UNCONSCIOUS, about para 419 ff with analysis of the fairly tale of the hunter/witch and helpful 3 and 4 hhoved horses.

I think that could probably be reinterpreted given the eros self "spin".


Wed May 03, 2006 4:55 pm
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Post numbers are speaking
Tom delivered the above reply at exactly 5:55 pm.

The number 5 is indicative of drastic 'cycle change', and 3 fives is a very potent delivery of this motif. This topic and all of the above discussion and insights are obviously incredibly important. Something is really going on here that is quite exciting. All the 5's together really do spell 'incarnation' to me. The twin processes, the new quaternity, the clover/the alfalfa, and the mushroom imagery - all are bringing together a distinctive feeling for me which is not explainable but completely palpable, so it must indeed be right!



Kristin

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